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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 23-Jan-11 16:35:14
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Re: Demand-led Rollout of FTTC


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
As with all these things it is not impossible

BUT

the benefit versus the cost of doing a scheme like this, rather than Openreach just continuing as they are now are very much in doubt.

Doing this at a local level is easy enough, but at a national level the scale is very different. It also risks making the myth that all broadband is via BT even bigger, as would be seen as a BT run scheme.

If people think this is a seriously feasible job, then they need to approach BDUK who are charged with looking after roll-out in the final third of the country

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Bob_s2
(learned) Sun 23-Jan-11 16:38:30
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Re: Demand-led Rollout of FTTC


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Yes, that was linked to earlier.

But here we are talking about a national plan. Not quite the same thing.



It is very simple and involves little admin. Anyone that uses a BT line and thatís pretty much everyone that does not use Cable pays either BT retail, another provider or an ISP the line rental. That line rental gets passed onto BT Openreach less a small margin for BT Retail etc. So what would happen is you would pay the deposit to your current provider who would pass it onto BT Open reach probably with their normal billing process event as this minimizes costs. You are not committed to any ISP or Teleco you would be free to go with whoever you choose. The costs to BT wholesale are not relevant here. This would be a charge between BT Openreach & BT Wholsale
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 23-Jan-11 16:44:24
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Re: Demand-led Rollout of FTTC


[re: Bob_s2] [link to this post]
 
If added as another product to the Openreach product catalogue then it is possible for the billing

Now what happens to the deposit when I move house? Move providers? When i die? When I divorce and billing name is changed on line?
How do we (those paying the money) keep track of the level of interest in our area?
What happens if the FTTC never comes to my area - how long can Openreach hang onto the money?
What is a fair charge for a provider to add as a markup for handling? 5%?

People who use full LLU have no intermediary in terms of BT Wholesale e.g. TalkTalk buys direct from Openreach.

I doubt this scheme would see much in the way of extending coverage beyond the current 60 to 70% plan. What will stimulate that is either (money from central funding) or evidence of good profits from the 60% already covered. The later is why TalkTalk LLU roll-out has continued, i.e. money to be made so continuing

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.


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Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Sun 23-Jan-11 16:47:03
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Re: Demand-led Rollout of FTTC


[re: Bob_s2] [link to this post]
 
setting aside admin &c do you see £30 as a big deal in securing installation of an FTTC cabinet ? if it reulted in a fully utilised cabinet it owuld only cover half the cost of the cabinet itself delivered but not installed, I don't know what proportion of the FTTC build cost the cabinet itself is, but it isn't all of it by a long chalk.

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
Standard User Bob_s2
(learned) Sun 23-Jan-11 16:58:43
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Re: Demand-led Rollout of FTTC


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by yarwell:
setting aside admin &c do you see £30 as a big deal in securing installation of an FTTC cabinet ? if it reulted in a fully utilised cabinet it owuld only cover half the cost of the cabinet itself delivered but not installed, I don't know what proportion of the FTTC build cost the cabinet itself is, but it isn't all of it by a long chalk.


It is not intended to recover the ful costs. What you are getting is a known customer base and a commitment to take it for 12 months. BT would expect to recover the costs over about a 3 year period. What it does is speed up the cost recovery.

The complicatuions some people seem to invvent and the costs they think they are are just crazy. ISP;s have customers move & die now. There sysytems are built to handle it

If these things were as complicated and difficult and expensive credit card companies woyld be charging far more. Credits cards have a far more complex situation but they mange to do it all at no more then a few percent. They have to bill the cardholder each month and transfer money to each of the companies you have dealt with that month
Standard User camieabz
(legend) Sun 23-Jan-11 17:01:13
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Re: Demand-led Rollout of FTTC


[re: Bob_s2] [link to this post]
 
Not everyone pays their bill on time. That's where they make their money. Some pay on time and pay no interest. If eveyone paid on time, they would go out of business.

~~~~~~~~~~



© Camieabz 2002-2011 - All rights and lefts reserved.

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Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Sun 23-Jan-11 17:02:07
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Re: Demand-led Rollout of FTTC


[re: Bob_s2] [link to this post]
 
It is not intended to recover the ful costs.


obviously, as it blatantly fails to come anywhere near that.

The question is does it make an unattractive FTTC project work ? or is it just a decibel management exercise to get it sooner.

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
Standard User krazykizza
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 23-Jan-11 17:20:22
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Re: DEmand Lead Rollout of FTTC


[re: Bob_s2] [link to this post]
 
Because FTTC costs a hell of a lot more than a town chucking 30 quid in the pot.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
AOL > Virgin Media > Tiscali > Falconnet > UKFSN > Norfolk Internet
2mbps > Shapped 512k > 1mbps! > 6.5mbps > 4.5mbps > 6.5mbps
ADSL Joy. 31db att, 9db SNR, EntaFail.
Standard User krazykizza
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 23-Jan-11 17:21:35
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Re: Demand-led Rollout of FTTC


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
It just wouldn't happen from a power point of view.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
AOL > Virgin Media > Tiscali > Falconnet > UKFSN > Norfolk Internet
2mbps > Shapped 512k > 1mbps! > 6.5mbps > 4.5mbps > 6.5mbps
ADSL Joy. 31db att, 9db SNR, EntaFail.
Standard User Bob_s2
(learned) Sun 23-Jan-11 17:32:48
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Re: Demand-led Rollout of FTTC


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by yarwell:
It is not intended to recover the ful costs.


obviously, as it blatantly fails to come anywhere near that.

The question is does it make an unattractive FTTC project work ? or is it just a decibel management exercise to get it sooner.


The economic are reasonably fixed and pretty much depend on the number taking up the service. Urban areas will have lower costs as you will have a higher number of cabinets within a geographic area. THe main cost variable is the hard dig to the cabinet but thats a one off costs and fibre has a very long service life.
Get a high enough number of users on a Cabinet in most areas and they are economic.
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