Sky FTTC

www.skyhispeedbb.com

Errrrm:-
Exchanges
ready for trial:
Early 2010

Muswell Hill, London
Whitchurch, South Glamorgan
Glasgow, Halfway
.Mid 2010

More exchanges will be switched to enable further trials. Register today so we can let you know when they are being planned.
..

And you still haven't read your PM.

Yes the fact that the site was up and running ages ago and hasn't been updated seems to have passed over the top of your head!

Sorry, There was more to that above link, what should have come up is;
With talktalk and sky slowly introducing FTTC, Should ADSL Pricing fall?

Where do we cross the line with same price huge speed gap?

I'd like to hear some more about this. I noticed that site a while ago, and there is very little news. I hear Sky are planning a rollout of this service, but is it really just a question of wait patiently, or is there some better current info available somewhere?

In reply to a post by NationsurfUK:

Sorry, There was more to that above link, what should have come up is;
With talktalk and sky slowly introducing FTTC, Should ADSL Pricing fall?

Where do we cross the line with same price huge speed gap?

Talk Talk are charging more for FTTC than for their normal product.

FTTC costs ISPs more to provide than ADSL.

The only ones who are offering it for the same price are BT Retail, presumably as a market grab.

ADSL pricing shouldn't fall, no, quality is compromised quite enough at the current price points in many cases.

Zero indication that Sky are turning this tiny trial into a genuine rollout yet. Most Sky customers aren't going to be particularly interested in the product (Not my words, those of a member of Sky's staff).

Hopefully we'll both be pleasantly surprised. I heard some rumours and some indications that things were happening, all has been quiet for a while.

I gave up waiting and went with BT - I had a "marginal" (IMO) 4 Mbps -- if I'd had a faster connection I probably wouldn't have.

I had hoped Be/Sky would provide but not enough activity and too many negatives to consider TalkTalk

Happy with the decision -- even though the homehub wireless is useless (I use a seperate access point)

What I think is need is a totally independent Fibre Local loop. The problem at present is BT own the local loop. The regulator is doing its best to open it up but as BT own it they are going to be keen to keep competition out.

A fibre loop has almost infinate capacity at present. If BT did not own it but it was owned by a company that was just responsible for it but did not provide any end user services it would be in its interest to get as many ISP;s etc using it. The exact oposite to at present. It could also carry TV services so everyone in the UK would have a choice of say BBC, Virgin. Sky and whatever other ones there are. Possibly the existing TV tranmitter network could go.

If BT did not own it but it was owned by a company that was just responsible for it but did not provide any end user services it would be in its interest to get as many ISP;s etc using it.

However the "open access" model that you describe has in general failed. H2O Networks, Ashby FTTP, South Yorks Digital Region, various local authority white elephants have all failed to get on board either any or sufficient known ISPs to do as you suggest.

In reply to a post by yarwell:

If BT did not own it but it was owned by a company that was just responsible for it but did not provide any end user services it would be in its interest to get as many ISP;s etc using it.

However the "open access" model that you describe has in general failed. H2O Networks, Ashby FTTP, South Yorks Digital Region, various local authority white elephants have all failed to get on board either any or sufficient known ISPs to do as you suggest.

They are small local schemes which probably would not work. What is realy needed is a true independent local loop. Being small local networks their costs are going to be high as well. Cable in the UK did not really take off untill all the various small cable networks were merged into a single entity

It would also bring down costs. Virgin would no longer need their own cable network. Currently where virgin has cable you have two expensive networks that need to be maintained. The BT one & the Virgin one

An independent fibre local loop could also encourage regional TV something that the UK does not really have at present. For that to really work though the BBC neds to be scalled back and the TV licence fee reduced to probably half what it is at present

I quite agree, also all profits should be reinvested back into the network

Dream on it'll never happen.

In reality what you are describing is basically Openreach. You have to try and remember that BT retail and BT Openreach are (meant to be) independent. But they are dragging their heals with innovation, coverage and price. If VM opened up their network then there would be no need for NGA network duplication in cabled areas. But that too will never happen.

Sky really need to announce something soon or risk loosing customers. They must get Anytime+ working over FTTC, which could be the reason for delaying (just speculation though).

They are small local schemes which probably would not work

South Yorks Digital Region is not small.

In reply to a post by Bob_s2:

What I think is need is a totally independent Fibre Local loop. The problem at present is BT own the local loop. The regulator is doing its best to open it up but as BT own it they are going to be keen to keep competition out.

Not really. Sky, etc, have sunk all this money into their own LLU equipment, FTTC makes it mostly redundant so there' s some reluctance to start using it.

Not to mention that most users of Sky use it because it's cheap and unlimited, FTTC increases the headline price and threatens the unlimited status of the product.

Yes but BT Openreach is not really seperate from BT. It operates as an internal business unit of BT and claims to operate at arms length but there is no way of knowing. All the indications are it still sees itself as BT and the regulator has to keep on at them. At minimum it should be operating as a wholly owned subsiderrt company of BT ie it would be a seperate company with its own p&l but wholly owned by BT Prefereably through it should be floated as a seperate company totaly independent of BT. It should also be blocked from serving end users as you would get the same conflict of interests that we have with BT.

If Openreach is a seperate company providing only the local loop network structure and maintaining it, it is in its best interest to get as many customers as possible using it unlike BT who want to resist that as far as possible

why is it not in BT's interest to have more use made of Openreach assets ?

So where exactly will the large investment required come from?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Errrrm:-
Exchanges
ready for trial:
Early 2010

Muswell Hill, London
Whitchurch, South Glamorgan
Glasgow, Halfway
.Mid 2010

More exchanges will be switched to enable further trials. Register today so we can let you know when they are being planned.
..

And you still haven't read your PM.

I registered then deregistered. There is NO FIBRE TO THE PREMISE HERE.

DON'T WANT OVAL.EVER. = GET O.UT.

RIP OFF!!

NO SERVICE ATTAINABLE ON EITHER -OF MY 2 BONDED LINES.
NOT WANTED BY THIRD PARTY SALES.
I AM NOT TOUTING, AND DO NOT WISH TO BE TOUTED.
THANKS.
NOW PLEASE AWAY..FROST ABOUNDS - NO FTTP HERE.

JUST DON'T ATTEMPT IT HERE, SORRY!

Sky have to move on one day and the trial is still happening. Once FTTC is nationwide, they will have no choice. The LLU gear will still be in use for the free customers.

loans, bonds and private investments, I would not do shares the goal would be an investment that would have time limit i.e. they would mature.

The idea would be they would reach a paoint when they where self funding i.e. all profits they made got put back in, they could take that funds and spend them directly or uses those funds to guarantee bonds extra

In reply to a post by Bob_s2:

What I think is need is a totally independent Fibre Local loop. The problem at present is BT own the local loop. The regulator is doing its best to open it up but as BT own it they are going to be keen to keep competition out.

I don't see that working right now. The problem is that the existing copper local loop is already doing most of what most people need it to. The only thing fibre brings to the equation is faster internet access and it's pretty clear that most people don't want that.

There is just no valid business reason for throwing away BT's local loop. That means BT won't do it but it also means that there's no money for a third party to run something alongside either.

In reply to a post by Cobra001:

loans, bonds and private investments, I would not do shares the goal would be an investment that would have time limit i.e. they would mature.

The idea would be they would reach a paoint when they where self funding i.e. all profits they made got put back in, they could take that funds and spend them directly or uses those funds to guarantee bonds extra

Lol - that didn't work very well for cable did it?

VM are still struggling to service the debt they inherited. It's what - twenty years since cable networks started being rolled out and the debt is still here. Hardly a massive inducement to investors.

they are running to make profits for shareholders.

look at either the gas or electricity grid, they turn over huge profits.

Similar example would be network rail, investment is going back into the tracks since they are no longer paying shareholders. Admitedly they will need help for he highspeed links but normzal track upgrade are going through well

investment is going back into the tracks since they are no longer paying shareholders

I can never understand why people bang on about shareholder returns affecting businesses. 5% is a fairly high dividend yield which isn't exactly extortion compared to loans and bonds. More important the existence of shareholders reduces the cost of loans as banks get paid off ahead of shareholders and hence see a lower risk. BT's weighted average cost of capital is calculated by OFCOM at about 9% so the shareholders are reducing that figure by accepting the yield they get.


Network Rail is effectively underwritten by the Government, they made 2.2bn from activities and borrowed a further 1.9bn so are not self sufficient in capital by a country mile. Corporate structure and ownership of any kind can still result in bad management and wrong investment decisions.

yea, that was for major overhaul work.

but for general improvement and small upgrade the change from rail track to network rail has been great move.

Also agree with you points on loans, hence why i also included bonds

you are forgetting bt is a private company, out there only to make money. why should they be forced to lose there local loop network.

openreachs network is operated on an equivalent basis, all providers are welcome to sell there services over it, sky not taking it up is a sky issue, not a bt or openreach one.

to be honest, openreach have done all the hard work and now isps get to sell a previously unavailable product, lets face it, no one else is willing to roll this out on a scale anywhere near openreach. no other company in this current climate would dream of investing 2.5 billion pounds.

its still very early days, we will all have to sit back and wait on the project moving forward.

me included

quite agree that its not too late, I would have just done it differntly from the start

In reply to a post by Cobra001:

quite agree that its not too late, I would have just done it differntly from the start

But there are probably good reasons why neither you nor I were in the position to do it differently .

its being rolled out full speed ahead, we are all working very hard to ensure everything runs swiftly and to target.

so as i said, we will all have to be patient in the meantime.

the change from rail track to network rail has been great move

change of people, perhaps.

'course FTTC/GEA is an Openreach product. BT, Eclipse, Zen, etc just put their spin on it.

main reason I not perfected my subliminal advert yet, if that fails could always try and come upo with something i could add to the water systems