Decision making questions about fibre

Hi all,

FTTC has been available here since the end of last year and I've been sitting and waiting since to see how it pans out. Well in the last quarter, although there are quite a few options, they're all quite a bit more expensive than what I currently pay with Be, with the exception of BT.

Therefore, I'm thinking of going for 'BT Unlimited Broadband & Calls', as we already have the unlimited calls with BT. The speed change from Be would be from 6MB / 1MB to 38MB / 9MB, so quite a step.

However, I've a few questions;

My current config is master socket downstairs with an ADSL Nation XTE-2005 faceplate (nothing plugged into this socket). From this socket, I've CAT5 cable running from back of the master socket (without the ringer cable) to a ADSL Nation XTF-85 filtered faceplate where the modem and phone is connected in the office.

1. Therefore, how would BT setup in my situation?
2. Is the hub, the new BT Home Hub 3? If not, what is used? Any pics/details available?
3. With BT lifting the 300GB limit, can it be expected that all the high bandwidth users are going to jump across (we're very light users, less than 50GB)
4. Although the 'traffic shaping' is for P2P, does it impact regular surfing? Is it refined enough? We're not big users, but when we do use it, we want it to work.
5. Does anyone have a Vodafone Sure Signal working on FTTC?
6. As it's not static IP, how often does the IP change? (edited to add)

Sorry for so many questions, but before potentially signing up to a 18 month contract, I want to ensure that everything appears as it should and everything works how it should (within reason)...

I hope that all makes sense and hoping people can help. If anyone needs any clarification, please let me know.

Thanks,

Chris.

Edited by WannabeMKII (Sat 12-Mar-11 18:32:54)

1. Current NTE not being used for anything, so bypass this and make the NTE upstairs.

2. Yes, you'll get an HH3, and the engineer will bring and fit the VDSL modem.

3. Pass.

4. Seen no issues here.

5. Yes, saw one working no problems.

6. The IP will only change, and sometimes not even then, when you disconnect.

Hope this helps.

Post deleted by RobertoS, 'cos it was obvious tripe .

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 12-Mar-11 21:20:07)

1. Zarjaz answered this.
2. Yes, HH3. It's probably fine for what you want.
3. Doubtful. Even with the 300GB (soft limit) BT still was the cheapest and had the best overall usage allowance. That would have attracted enough heavy users. With BT removing the cap they obviously see no issue moving forward. Can't see it making any difference really.
4. Doesn't effect normal surfing, downloads, gaming etc.
5. Dunno.
6. Rarely. The IP is assigned to the openreach modem which the engineer brings. Provided the line is stable and doesn't drop the signal, it won't change IP. Obviously if the line drops or the power cuts then it'll change. Generally the modem is left alone to do it's job. You can change settings and reset the hub as often as you like really.

Edited by orly (Sat 12-Mar-11 19:04:30)

Thanks for answering the questions, appreciated!

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

1. Current NTE not being used for anything, so bypass this and make the NTE upstairs.

Just thought, there's another extension socket that's run from the master that the Sky boxes are plugged into. Will this cause an issue? Also, will the engineer make these changes?

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

5. Yes, saw one working no problems.

The one you saw, did they have any issues setting it up, as Vodafone 'claim' it won't work...?

Anyone any ideas what the BT lead time is on an install? I've already BT line rental and phone package.

In reply to a post by orly:

2. Yes, HH3. It's probably fine for what you want.

Within the HH3, can static IP's be assigned to devices? More specifically, can I assign the static IP, not the HH3?

Is port forwarding straightforward enough?

Edited by WannabeMKII (Sat 12-Mar-11 19:26:33)

Don't think that's quite right Bob... the modem establishes the link to the MSAN in the cabinet, but the router (or the computer if you're not using a router) establishes the connection to your ISP and hence to the internet. Your IP address is assigned to the router when it logs in.

The modem is, in essence, just a level/protocol converter. It's pretty dumb.

If you turn the router off then (for example) tbb's ping monitor will return packet loss because your IP no longer exists.

When you turn it back on, it will reconnect to your ISP and may (if on dynamic allocation) get a new IP address.

I'm pretty sure that's right, but I stand to be corrected.

Edited by billford (Sat 12-Mar-11 21:27:36)

Just thought, there's another extension socket that's run from the master that the Sky boxes are plugged into. Will this cause an issue? Also, will the engineer make these changes?

Ah, then let the engineer discuss the options when they turn up. Fit an RJ45 plug at either end of the existing cat5, and feed the router that way, lots of options.

The one you saw, did they have any issues setting it up, as Vodafone 'claim' it won't work...?

Just plugged its feed from the existing router to the new one, simple as...

I'm pretty sure that's right, but I stand to be corrected.

That was my take on it too, but I didn't want to hurt Bob's feelings.

Been a while since I took a look but should be easy enough.

I have a HH2 though but I'm assuming the interface and options will be similar.

In reply to a post by WannabeMKII:

Within the HH3, can static IP's be assigned to devices? More specifically, can I assign the static IP, not the HH3?

Is port forwarding straightforward enough?

I assume you don't mean static IP address here but rather a pre-determined DHCP address - well yes you can use the HH3 to do this. I just configured it to give my desktop the address 192.164.1.214 and it did exactly that.

Port forwarding is very straight forward although you have to define a "service" ie I want to route something to port 7000 on a specific server so first step is to define a service where incoming port 7000 gets mapped to port 7000. This also means you can do port address translation if you so desired. Once you defined the service you can then setup redirection of that service to a specific IP address within your network.

Having said that I have just ordered myself a Netgear WNDR3700 as I miss features I had on my old Netgear router I got from Sky such as web site blocking

Read the deletion message .

Thanks.

Been there, done that myself

Now a true gentleman would remove the content of their own post .

I've never claimed to be a gentleman

But I've removed the quote and made a slight edit.

In reply to a post by billford:

I've never claimed to be a gentleman

But I've removed the quote and made a slight edit.

Ah, but I attribute that quality to you .

Ta!

Must have been a brainstorm moment.

The humour is retained though

In reply to a post by Squirrel:

I assume you don't mean static IP address here but rather a pre-determined DHCP address - well yes you can use the HH3 to do this. I just configured it to give my desktop the address 192.164.1.214 and it did exactly that.

Say for example, I'd like a device to have an internal IP of 192.164.1.222, can I set a device to have that IP reservation from the HH3, rather than setting it on the actual device/computer?

In reply to a post by Squirrel:

Port forwarding is very straight forward although you have to define a "service" ie I want to route something to port 7000 on a specific server so first step is to define a service where incoming port 7000 gets mapped to port 7000. This also means you can do port address translation if you so desired. Once you defined the service you can then setup redirection of that service to a specific IP address within your network.

Ok, sounds straightforward enough, thanks.

In reply to a post by Squirrel:

Having said that I have just ordered myself a Netgear WNDR3700 as I miss features I had on my old Netgear router I got from Sky such as web site blocking

I'm using a Netgear 834GT and it allows the level of customisation I need, in particular, the assigning of internal static IP's. I would look at alternatives, but it's additional cost that I don't want to spend.

In reply to a post by WannabeMKII:

Say for example, I'd like a device to have an internal IP of 192.164.1.222, can I set a device to have that IP reservation from the HH3, rather than setting it on the actual device/computer?

You can indeed, that is exactly what I just did except I used 192.168.1.214 in my example

I have my Vodafone Sure Signal plugged into the Home Hub 3 on infinity and it works fine, no issues at all.

In reply to a post by Rebeldiamond:

I have my Vodafone Sure Signal plugged into the Home Hub 3 on infinity and it works fine, no issues at all.

That's great to hear, as that's one of my biggest issues, as network coverage is poor here.

In reply to a post by WannabeMKII:

My current config is master socket downstairs with an ADSL Nation XTE-2005 faceplate (nothing plugged into this socket). From this socket, I've CAT5 cable running from back of the master socket (without the ringer cable) to a ADSL Nation XTF-85 filtered faceplate where the modem and phone is connected in the office.

Well, I looked into my config, as there's been a few threads on the fibre forum talking about master sockets etc, so thought I'd post mine up and see what, if anything would need changing. I didn't know whether to start another new thread, or stick with this one?

So, here's a graphical representation of my set up - Click here

I've also taken a picture of the back of the XTE-2005 to show the wiring - Click here. Cable on left is CAT5 feeding XTF.

Hopefully those pictures make it clear...?

So in terms of infinity, do you think it'll be as simple as plugging the BT modem into the ADSL connection on the XTF (where the modem currently is) and the HH3 into that?

Or is/could it be more complicated with the master socket being moved to the office where the XTF currently is?

I'd appreciate comments/feedback on the setup...

Thanks,

Chris.

The Openreach engineer will insist on fitting the Openreach filtered faceplate to an NTE5. Your XTE-2005 you need to grab at the time before it goes walk-about.

Whether he will happily connect the incoming exchange line to your CAT5 to service a new NTE5 where the XTF is is another matter. Maybe he would be willing to site it where the current master is and use your CAT5 as a data extension cable so the modem can go on the XTF.

Tea/coffee and biscuits and a persuasive manner look to be required.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The Openreach engineer will insist on fitting the Openreach filtered faceplate to an NTE5. Your XTE-2005 you need to grab at the time before it goes walk-about.

I'm planning to be around when the install takes place, so I'll certainly be keeping an eye on things

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Whether he will happily connect the incoming exchange line to your CAT5 to service a new NTE5 where the XTF is is another matter.

Ok. Perhaps I'm not fully up to speed on how FTTC is different, so apologies, but can I gain some clarification.

The NTE5 is effectively the master socket where the phone line comes into the house? They then put a filtered faceplate on to separate voice calls from DSL. This is then the best place to plug in the modem to get the best signal/performance/results. Am I correct so far?

But, where I currently have the XTF connected to the XTE, is there going to be that much of an impact? Can the modem not connect exactly where my modem is now?

Or, do I ideally want the NTE moved to where my XTF is now and make the current NTE/XTE socket the XTF extension? Effectively, swapping them around?

Did that make sense and am I right, or am I getting all twisted up?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Maybe he would be willing to site it where the current master is and use your CAT5 as a data extension cable so the modem can go on the XTF.

Also, how would this work? So keep everything as it is, but plug the modem into the existing NTE and use the CAT5 as the connection between the modem and the HH3?

How much different would this be than just plugging in the modem in my current config, with the CAT5 carrying the signal to a second socket, rather than the CAT5 carrying the data from modem to router?

Apologies if I'm being 'simple', I just like to fully understand things and appreciate your help & patience!

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Tea/coffee and biscuits and a persuasive manner look to be required.

I'll ensure we've supplies on hand and I'll ensure the Mrs is suitably dressed

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Maybe he would be willing to site it where the current master is and use your CAT5 as a data extension cable so the modem can go on the XTF.

I've just read this bit through again and I think I got confused with terminology?

So basically, when you say a 'data extension cable', that means to leave it as it is with the CAT5 carrying full adsl signal from the master (NTE5/XTE) to the extension (XTF) and plug in exactly how it's configured now? Not what I've written in the other post about a data connection being between modem to router. You mean socket to socket as a data connection?

Hopefully I'm getting closer...?

[chuckle]
I am thoroughly confused by your explanations of your confusions.

It has all been explained a few times by several of us, including an FTTC installer, but your resultant questions leave me brain addled.

You have an NTE5 at the moment. You have removed the NTE5A faceplate and replaced it with an XTE-2005. You have wired an XTF with CAT5 from the A/B IDC connectors on the back of the XTE-2005, and your current modem/router is by the XTF.

The BT engineer would normally remove the XTE-2005 and replace it with an NTE5A, inserting the Openreach filtering device between the NTE5 and the 5A. The result would be a new DSL socket at the top and a filtered phone socket at the bottom.

The engineer will have what they call a 30m-long "data extension cable" they can install, (and shorten if appropriate). This plugs into the new DSL socket and requires him to connect a socket at the other end where he can place the modem, instead of putting it by the NTE5.

So far as I know, the signal at that additional socket is both phone and broadband so would need a filter if a phone were also going to be connected. Or maybe it won't accept the larger plug of a dangly filter so is effectively broadband only at that stage.

If to keep your phone extension working he wired your CAT5 to the T2, T3 and T5 IDCs on the new NTE5A your XTF would only work for phone, not for broadband. So you definitely do not want that.

Alternatives as I see it:-

1) You may be able to get him to use your CAT5 instead of that data extension cable. Particularly if the filtered faceplate above is the version that has an unfiltered A/B output on the back, like the XTE-2005 has. New modem goes in the computer room, on the XTF.

2) You let him do what he wants, then once he has gone you remove all he has done, put the XTE-2005 back with the CAT5 attached as now, and open the champagne .

3) He connects the incoming exchange line to your CAT5 and resites the XTE5 to where you have the XTF. Fits his filtered faceplate and new NTE5A there as above. Feeds an extension back down the CAT5 from there to where the NTE5 currently is, and fits either your XTF or a new normal extension socket there.

However, so far we know little about this new version of the Openreach filter plate. Some of it doesn't make sense to me.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

[chuckle]
I am thoroughly confused by your explanations of your confusions.

Glad you chuckled and I think was getting confused, long day

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Alternatives as I see it:-

1) You may be able to get him to use your CAT5 instead of that data extension cable. Particularly if the filtered faceplate above is the version that has an unfiltered A/B output on the back, like the XTE-2005 has. New modem goes in the computer room, on the XTF.

This isn't ideal, especially as the CAT5 is literally cut to length with little to no slack.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

2) You let him do what he wants, then once he has gone you remove all he has done, put the XTE-2005 back with the CAT5 attached as now, and open the champagne .

Best option, or hopefully he doesn't replace any of the sockets and use existing sockets. Champagne is good to, but not on a Monday

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

3) He connects the incoming exchange line to your CAT5 and resites the XTE5 to where you have the XTF. Fits his filtered faceplate and new NTE5A there as above. Feeds an extension back down the CAT5 from there to where the NTE5 currently is, and fits either your XTF or a new normal extension socket there.

Not great either, especially as the CAT5 runs outside (is specific external grade cable), so would be more cables outside. Not WAG friendly.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

However, so far we know little about this new version of the Openreach filter plate. Some of it doesn't make sense to me.

So it could all boil down to the type of faceplate and if they have to change it.

So am I right in thinking there's two types of faceplates in use which are basically the same as the XTE or XTF, just branded BT Openreach?

Also, do they have to change the faceplate?

Thanks again!

Edited by WannabeMKII (Wed 16-Mar-11 16:34:14)

In reply to a post by WannabeMKII:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

3) He connects the incoming exchange line to your CAT5 and resites the XTE5 to where you have the XTF. Fits his filtered faceplate and new NTE5A there as above. Feeds an extension back down the CAT5 from there to where the NTE5 currently is, and fits either your XTF or a new normal extension socket there.

Not great either, especially as the CAT5 runs outside (is specific external grade cable), so would be more cables outside. Not WAG friendly.

???
That's the sort of thing that confuses me. Who said anything about adding another CAT5 cable?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

However, so far we know little about this new version of the Openreach filter plate. Some of it doesn't make sense to me.

So it could all boil down to the type of faceplate and if they have to change it.

So am I right in thinking there's two types of faceplates in use which are basically the same as the XTE or XTF, just branded BT Openreach?

Also, do they have to change the faceplate?

Thanks again!
I have a picture of the new faceplate installed, on this page. So far as I know, he is instructed to fit one. However the original version does not have an A/B output aka the XTE-2005. As I understand it there is now one that does. Which one your engineer would have available is unknown.

Technically, your XTE-2005 and all the rest of your wiring is perfectly OK for FTTC, but the rules say he must install the BT kit and test the connection through it. He will also connect the compulsory modem. Remember, Openreach are guaranteeing the throughput, so he has little scope for rule-breaking. His job could be at stake.

[joke]Give him the champagne (beforehand, in a glass, nicely chilled?) and who knows what you might achieve. Even on a Monday.[/joke]

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by WannabeMKII:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

3) He connects the incoming exchange line to your CAT5 and resites the XTE5 to where you have the XTF. Fits his filtered faceplate and new NTE5A there as above. Feeds an extension back down the CAT5 from there to where the NTE5 currently is, and fits either your XTF or a new normal extension socket there.

Not great either, especially as the CAT5 runs outside (is specific external grade cable), so would be more cables outside. Not WAG friendly.

???
That's the sort of thing that confuses me. Who said anything about adding another CAT5 cable?

Ah, so you mean use the same CAT5 for both directions obviously using different cables within the CAT5. Is that what you mean? I just assumed a new cable.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by WannabeMKII:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

However, so far we know little about this new version of the Openreach filter plate. Some of it doesn't make sense to me.

So it could all boil down to the type of faceplate and if they have to change it.

So am I right in thinking there's two types of faceplates in use which are basically the same as the XTE or XTF, just branded BT Openreach?

Also, do they have to change the faceplate?

Thanks again!

I have a picture of the new faceplate installed, on this page. So far as I know, he is instructed to fit one. However the original version does not have an A/B output aka the XTE-2005. As I understand it there is now one that does. Which one your engineer would have available is unknown.

Technically, your XTE-2005 and all the rest of your wiring is perfectly OK for FTTC, but the rules say he must install the BT kit and test the connection through it. He will also connect the compulsory modem. Remember, Openreach are guaranteeing the throughput, so he has little scope for rule-breaking. His job could be at stake.

[joke]Give him the champagne (beforehand, in a glass, nicely chilled?) and who knows what you might achieve. Even on a Monday.[/joke]

I spotted the faceplate on your site, it's pretty big isn't it!?

Ideally, the faceplate he's going to fit needs to have the same connectors as the XTE, then it should be a straight swap. So fingers crossed!

Thanks for your help, patience and guidance!

I'm going to re-read the options again before Monday, so I've a decent idea of my options when I talk to him.

Well, the install happened, ahead of schedule. Due between 13:00 and 18:00 and called at 12:15 to start work.

Looked at my existing wiring and said all looks good. Tested the signal on his machine and it gave maximum readings for Fibre, so said no need to change anything.

So literally a straight swap.

Had a minor issue with the "phone tails" at the exchange which was resolved within 30 mins, so all in all happy.

He did say, if I have any issues, let them know and they may have to look at the faceplate, but didn't really seemed phased by it.

Haven't had time to test it fully. Will hopefully have time later...

Sounds good .

But we have been through so many alternatives we don't know what you have ended up with, with the "straight swap". You almost imply he just put the modem at the XTF and left the NTE-2005 in situ.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

But we have been through so many alternatives we don't know what you have ended up with, with the "straight swap". You almost imply he just put the modem at the XTF and left the NTE-2005 in situ.

That's exactly what he did. Nothing was changed on site, modem was plugged into XTF and XTE was left in place aswell.

Edited by WannabeMKII (Mon 21-Mar-11 16:28:20)

Heh!!!!

You should ask for a part refund of the installation charge. They've saved a filtered faceplate.

I think you should have demanded they leave it as a spare .

Any biscuits needed?

You saved yourself a lot of re-wiring trouble as well - took so long on here there wasn't time to do it!

Enjoy .

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I think you should have demanded they leave it as a spare .

When he had it in his hand, I actually nearly asked him for it, as it crossed my mind, but I didn't and now I wonder why I didn't

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Any biscuits needed?

Nope, just aswell really, as I don't think we have any... A cup of coffee in our 'Wheres Wally' mug was used with 1 sugar and milk.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You saved yourself a lot of re-wiring trouble as well - took so long on here there wasn't time to do it!

Yeah, that's the best part, straightforward swap

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Enjoy .

Well, a quick BT Speedtest show's;

35210 of 38717 Download
8217 of 10000 Upload

So happy with that. Just let the 10 day settling period pass and hope it stays at this during and after that period...

Thanks again for your help & patience RobertoS & others

Perfect speed test.

What I found quite quickly though is that speed testing via wireless is very unreliable, to the tune of tens of thousands slower than wired, taken within a minute or so.

That may just be my setup of course but watch out for it.

I've also read wireless can be very unreliable/inconsistent with regards to speedtests etc.

I'm wired 99% of the time, so should have limited exposure to the issue.

Now, what can I use this new found speed for...?

Ah, let's check for Windows Update, as I'm sure I was saving one.