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Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-May-11 13:29:20
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For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[link to this post]
 
There's a nice little tool on the BT Infinity website that puts things into perspective.

http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumer/asset...

Then go to your area - it's great as it both shows the original date for the area and the updated one.

In my case I'm looking at Greater London:

30TH MARCH 2011
Acton, Beulah Hill, Bowes Park, Catford, Clapton, Clerkenwell, Colindale, Crouch End, Dulwich, Earls Court, Edgware, Feltham, Finchley, Grove Park, Hammersmith, Harlesden, Kenton Road, Kidbrooke, Kingsbury, Lee Green, Leytonstone, Mill Hill, North Edgware, North Finchley, North Wembley, Northolt, Northwood, Primrose Hill, Ruislip, Rushey Green, South Clapham, Staines, Stanmore, Streatham, Teddington, Twickenham, Wembley, West Drayton, Willesden, Winchmore Hill

30TH JUNE 2011
Beulah Hill, Bowes Park, Clapton, Colindale, Crouch End, Edgware, Forest Hill, Grove Park, Hampstead, Kidbrooke, Kingsland Green, Mill Hill, Molesey, North Edgware, North Wembley, Ruislip, Rushey Green, Streatham, Teddington, Upper Holloway, Wanstead.

30TH SEP 2011
Acton, Ashford Middlesex, Clerkenwell, Dulwich, Earls Court, Hammersmith, Harlesden, Kentish Town, Kingsbury, Lee Green, Leytonstone, North Finchley, Primrose Hill, South Clapham, South Harrow, Staines, Stanmore, Twickenham, Wembley, West Drayton, Winchmore Hill.

30TH DEC 2011
Balham, Bermondsey, Chiswick, Deptford, Feltham, Finchley, Hackney, Hatch End, Hayes, Hendon, Kenton Road, Northolt, Perivale, Stepney, Sydenham, Tulse Hill, Upton Park, Walthamstow, Wandsworth, Willesden.

Puts into perspective that the delays to my own exchange were nothing personal. Of the 40 exchanges Openreach were under the evidently deluded opinion they would have ready by March 2011 they managed, err, two, Catford and Northwood. Most of the other 38 were pushed back by 6 months or more, and they perhaps more realistically aim for 20 exchanges per 3 months, including the delayed ones, after March.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Wed 11-May-11 13:38:26
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
God how annoying!!

I've been waiting months and months for FTTC, living on a new housing estate <2km from the exchange in a small village I thought we'd be on in no time...

It looks like our cabinet is pretty much the only one in the village which hasn't been FTTC'ed!!! Grr! Is there any way to request BT do our cabinet?

It says in the above link that we are FTTC ready frown

How annoying.
Standard User AJHB
(learned) Wed 11-May-11 14:08:16
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
The whole rollout is a shambels. Just enabling an exchange isn't enough. In my exchange mortlake as far as i can tell they enabled the exchange in March after installing loads of cabinets months before but only one is actually live with no date for the rest. Its a bit of a con to say some exchanges are live when the coverage is less than 10%.


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Standard User krazykizza
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 11-May-11 15:27:16
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Midlands missing quite a few exchanges laugh

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
AOL > Virgin Media > Tiscali > Falconnet > UKFSN > Norfolk Internet
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Anonymous
(Unregistered)Wed 11-May-11 17:15:05
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: krazykizza] [link to this post]
 
Yes, that is exactly reason why I hate BT. There isn't enough BT infinity enabled exchanges in West Midlands.
Standard User Zadeks
(member) Wed 11-May-11 17:44:42
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Not the case for South East.
Standard User hareng
(newbie) Wed 11-May-11 17:50:39
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
May not answer the actual delays but an Openreach installer told me only the slowest areas will be done first.
Standard User WWWombat
(member) Wed 11-May-11 18:32:52
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: AJHB] [link to this post]
 
The whole rollout is a shambles? Based on what?

Certainly *somewhere* has to be first, and somewhere has to be last. And inbetween, other exchanges and cabinets get rolled out. Plans are made, and (naturally) change.

Anyone whose exchange+cabinet is at the start of the list is happy, and those at the end of the list are unhappy. But the natural features of a rollout are exactly those, and don't make it a shambles.

Constantly changing dates *is* something of a shambles, but I think BT have responded by giving exchanges a more generous time allowance now - which is why everywhere appears to have gone back significantly. There are other aspects of their system that are a shambles too, and I'm suffering one of them.

But I know where your frustration lies - it is in the huge black hole of information that exists after an exchange has gone live. We (the public) don't really know what is happening to any cabinets after that first go-live date, and it is easy to feel that BT have given up and gone elsewhere.

So to add some details...

BT tend to take an exchange live once the first 10 cabinets have been put into service.

Looking at the data inadvertently supplied by Openreach last week, Mortlake has 13 cabinets live at present, out of around 60 - and it looks like all bar 2 or 3 cabinets are due to be included - and as far as I can tell, they're still marked in phase 5a.

It might feel like a con to you when you aren't in the first 13 cabinets. But imagine how those customers would feel if they found out their service was being delayed because of holdups with 1 or 2 other cabinets.

A rollout is just that - a gradual rolling out. The country has been having them for 250 years (canal, rail, road, electricity, telephone, radio, TV, gas, airports, mobile phone, cable, internet and now broadband in it's 4th guise), so you'd think we'd be used to the idea by now.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-May-11 19:42:26
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
The whole rollout is a shambles? Based on what?


I'd suggest that 95% of exchanges scheduled for deployment in March 2011 in Greater London falling behind schedule and at least one of those being listed as enabled (3 months late, Mortlake was originally scheduled for December 2010, listed as enabled March 2011) when only 28% of the cabinets are actually enabled is a shambles.

Call me harsh.

What happens since is remedial action after the shambles, doesn't change that it's a shambles in this neck of the woods, evidently YMMV depending on where in the country you are.

Edited by Ignitionnet (Wed 11-May-11 19:43:57)

Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-May-11 20:28:54
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Nice, mature and reasoned critique. grin

Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-May-11 20:29:47
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: hareng] [link to this post]
 
an Openreach installer told me only the slowest areas will be done first.

Not true.

Standard User RandomJointer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 11-May-11 21:25:34
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
I would have a guess that some delays were down to maybe Openreach considering FTTC cabinets as minor works and maybe some councils considering FTTC cabinets as major noticeable works.

I would have a punt that if cabinets were delayed for noticing that they planted them in the next phase rollout areas with more cooperative councils long before the spine was in place or even due rather than having them kicking around the docks

I would guess this would probably lead to punters in those areas wondering why they have cabinets in place yet are unable to order and punters in projected enabled areas wondering what's the hold up.

I would guess that regional investment general managers in Openreach have this massive investment very close to their hearts, or at least their daily key performance figures.

Analysts are projecting very good figures for BT results tomorrow. I would expect this will encourage the fttc rollout to accelerate and maybe a few more bob being put in.

As a shareholder, I would prefer the rollout to slow so we can judge demand and returns. Whether this is a bubble or a bust. I don't expect that to happen though. smile

Edited by RandomJointer (Wed 11-May-11 21:44:20)

Standard User Ancient_Mariner
(knowledge is power) Wed 11-May-11 23:35:38
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: RandomJointer] [link to this post]
 
With my County Councillor hat on.

Recently received a 'Notification of Planning Application' letter from Flintshire County Council for, 'a prior approval application for the installation of BT cabinet' which will be situated in my ward.

From this, Flintshire are treating cabinet applications on the basis that they are approved unless there is an objection. (same as for a mobile phone mast).

I completed the tick box form with no objection and sent it back by return.

That cabinet does not serve my house, if it had I would be confronted with personal and prejudicial interest issues..... And I certainly do not want to stand in the way of FTTC and as the OR guy told me lat week, FTTH which has been installed just a couple of miles away.

Cheers!

Clive

"As I hurtled through space towards re-entry at twice the speed of sound the only thought in my mind was that this craft was entirely built by the lowest bidder! John Glen, Astronaut

Andrews & Arnold
DrayTek Vigor 2800V

Standard User WWWombat
(member) Wed 11-May-11 23:37:10
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Not harsh at all, in that respect. I agree that the delays *are* a shambles.

However, the post I responded to was complaining about marking an exchange live when only a proportion of cabinets were live - and I agree with that policy. After all, there are 20% of subscribers who *can* get onto the system. You might as well be (a) getting the money, and (b) be employing your installation engineers.

The only problem with this strategy is that, once the exchange in announced as live, there is no visible sign of further progress in that area. It leaves you with no feedback about whether you can trust your own line's go-live date.

And, because of the planning problems, no-one trusts the go-live dates.

I think BT have learnt a bit about this, and have changed their planning methods *and* the way they report things to us - at least before the exchange is marked live. Note the split of the exchanges into 3 lists on Openreach's website?

I think they'd do better if they announced an exchange as live in the same way they do (ie at 10 cabinets), but then to keep announcing as they fill out further cabinets.
Standard User aquiss
(experienced) Thu 12-May-11 07:30:51
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
A rollout is just that - a gradual rolling out. The country has been having them for 250 years (canal, rail, road, electricity, telephone, radio, TV, gas, airports, mobile phone, cable, internet and now broadband in it's 4th guise), so you'd think we'd be used to the idea by now.


You missed dirt track wink

Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 12-May-11 07:33:17
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
I will say it again, if anyone with a delay thinks they bad off, at least you have a date wink

there is large parts of the country not been touched by BT FTTC.

Dates that couldnt be kept will have been for PR reasons and to keep share price up at time of announcement.
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 12-May-11 07:34:15
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Anonymous:
Yes, that is exactly reason why I hate BT. There isn't enough BT infinity enabled exchanges in West Midlands.


all of midlands is bad but the east midlands is significantly worse off than the west, as at least birmingham is seeing some action.
Standard User krazykizza
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 12-May-11 08:22:31
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Yes, I am in the East Midlands. And it's missing certain exchanges that have FTTC, some not on the list even have suites installed.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
AOL > Virgin Media > Tiscali > Falconnet > UKFSN > Norfolk Internet
2mbps > Shapped 512k > 1mbps! > 6.5mbps > 4.5mbps > 6.5mbps
ADSL Joy. 31db att, 9db SNR, EntaFail.
Standard User parish
(experienced) Thu 12-May-11 08:52:29
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: krazykizza] [link to this post]
 
I agree with "shambles".

My exchange (Trowbridge, Wilts) was originally slated for 30 Jun 2010 but about a week before that date it moved out another 3 months, This repeated until March this year and now it finally says that the exchange is ready for Infinity.

However, when I enter my phone number (and also those of friends who are on the same exchange, but it different locations) it says that Infinity isn't scheduled to be rolled out within the next 6 months - very clever wording; read it quickly and you read it as is within the next 6 months.

So, the exchange may, allegedly, be ready but there's little prospect of me having Infinity this year.

Then today I read this - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13370899 - about BT making massive profits...
Profits at telecoms group BT have jumped 71% after a year of job cuts, restructuring, and an aggressive roll-out of broadband operations.

[...]

Mr Livingston [BT's CEO] hailed the roll-out of BT's super-fast broadband service as "one of the most rapid in the world, passing an average of 80,000 additional premises each week".


Hmmm, what's that aroma?
Standard User hareng
(newbie) Thu 12-May-11 19:49:03
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Quite true but most of the West Mids have a reasonable connection speed compared to what i have to put up with for 11 years on ADSL and ADSL2+. Its only been just over 6 years before i could get ADSL on 1/2meg fixed and had to push for that.

Incidentally 7 local cabs 6 of which were FTTC enabled last year supplying around 20,000 homes and i am the third to take it up, whats all the fuss?
Very few here are able to maintain over 1 meg excluding the shear number of dropouts measured in hundreds a day.

Both BT engineers stated only the worst areas will be done first, not my words. These same two separate engineers covered the West Mids and Staffs, next call could be 25 mile away far side of Brum or next door.
Standard User New_Londoner
(member) Thu 12-May-11 19:58:57
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: parish] [link to this post]
 
You may want to check some of the other ISPs as some are more aggressive than others in starting to sell service as soon as possible, rather than waiting until all or the bulk of the cabinets have been installed.

---

All opinions expressed by me are my own

BT Infinity
Speedtest result (excluding 2Mbps for BT Vision)
Standard User WWWombat
(member) Thu 12-May-11 21:18:27
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: parish] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by parish:
However, when I enter my phone number (and also those of friends who are on the same exchange, but it different locations) it says that Infinity isn't scheduled to be rolled out within the next 6 months - very clever wording; read it quickly and you read it as is within the next 6 months.

So what does it say then? I don't think anyone has reported wording like this before!
Standard User parish
(experienced) Thu 12-May-11 21:50:53
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
So what does it say then? I don't think anyone has reported wording like this before!


Neither have I. They seem to have changed the wording in the last week or so. The exact wording is:

BT Infinity is not currently due to be rolled out in your area within the next 6 months. Register your interest and we will keep you up to date about the BT Infinity rollout.
Standard User WWWombat
(member) Thu 12-May-11 22:05:27
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: parish] [link to this post]
 
Right. That certainly suggests BT are doing something to try to better inform people about just when they might get fibre. Even if, for now, it appears a step backwards.

It only makes sense that BT make something of an effort at getting their time predictions better - each quarter-end would cause a barrage of date changes, follow by a chorus of complaints.

Here's hoping that when they start to give dates in the future, they have become more accurate predictions than in the past.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Thu 12-May-11 23:24:45
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: RandomJointer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RandomJointer:
I would have a guess that some delays were down to maybe Openreach considering FTTC cabinets as minor works and maybe some councils considering FTTC cabinets as major noticeable works.

I would have a punt that if cabinets were delayed for noticing that they planted them in the next phase rollout areas with more cooperative councils long before the spine was in place or even due rather than having them kicking around the docks


Maybe, though not the case in Twickenham given that planning permission for the first cabinets only started hitting Richmond Borough a couple of weeks ago.

I can assure you I have spoken with Richmond Borough and despite the likely perception of the area the only reason they are turning any planning requests down is genuine safety reasons such as one that comes to mind of sticking a cabinet on a junction blocking views of oncoming traffic, they are very keen to get this done.

EDIT: Incidentally they are keen to the point where residents have made objections over 'aesthetics' and have been disregarded and permission granted. This is easily available information via the Borough website.

Edited by Ignitionnet (Thu 12-May-11 23:26:59)

Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 13-May-11 01:43:22
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: hareng] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by hareng:
Quite true but most of the West Mids have a reasonable connection speed compared to what i have to put up with for 11 years on ADSL and ADSL2+. Its only been just over 6 years before i could get ADSL on 1/2meg fixed and had to push for that.

Incidentally 7 local cabs 6 of which were FTTC enabled last year supplying around 20,000 homes and i am the third to take it up, whats all the fuss?
Very few here are able to maintain over 1 meg excluding the shear number of dropouts measured in hundreds a day.

Both BT engineers stated only the worst areas will be done first, not my words. These same two separate engineers covered the West Mids and Staffs, next call could be 25 mile away far side of Brum or next door.


The exchanges picked in my area are short line areas. I would assume they will go for low cost rollout areas first which would probably mean short line areas first.
Standard User parish
(experienced) Fri 13-May-11 08:25:42
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
It only makes sense that BT make something of an effort at getting their time predictions better - each quarter-end would cause a barrage of date changes, follow by a chorus of complaints.

Here's hoping that when they start to give dates in the future, they have become more accurate predictions than in the past.


But they are still giving lists for each quarter-end when you click an area on the map at www.bt.com/infinity with a list of exchanges under "GREAT NEWS! THESE EXCHANGES ARE READY FOR BT INFINITY", which is where my exchange is finally listed.

Am I correct in thinking that it's only after the exchange is upgraded that they start upgrading the street-side cabinets - it would certainly appear that way if my exchange is ready but it will be 6+ months before Infinity is rolled-out?

If so, then that is something that they don't explain, which will cause confusion and complaints. I was certainly under the impression that once the exchange was declared ready that Infinity would be available to everyone connected to that exchange (unless there was a technical reason why a cabinet couldn't be fibre-enabled).
Standard User RandomJointer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 13-May-11 17:50:32
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
I was talking about streetworks noticing rather than planning permission.

Anonymous
(Unregistered)Fri 13-May-11 18:15:37
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Anonymous:
God how annoying!!

I've been waiting months and months for FTTC, living on a new housing estate <2km from the exchange in a small village I thought we'd be on in no time...

It looks like our cabinet is pretty much the only one in the village which hasn't been FTTC'ed!!! Grr! Is there any way to request BT do our cabinet?

It says in the above link that we are FTTC ready frown

How annoying.

where are you based?
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Fri 13-May-11 18:53:56
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: RandomJointer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RandomJointer:
I was talking about streetworks noticing rather than planning permission.


Tons of conservation areas around here, surely there would have been applications for the cabinets in those areas going in as well? None went in until the past weeks, certainly none were done before March 2011, the original date.
Standard User WWWombat
(member) Fri 13-May-11 22:39:38
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: parish] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by parish:
Am I correct in thinking that it's only after the exchange is upgraded that they start upgrading the street-side cabinets - it would certainly appear that way if my exchange is ready but it will be 6+ months before Infinity is rolled-out?

If so, then that is something that they don't explain, which will cause confusion and complaints. I was certainly under the impression that once the exchange was declared ready that Infinity would be available to everyone connected to that exchange (unless there was a technical reason why a cabinet couldn't be fibre-enabled).

No. It seems BT will announce an exchange as live when 10 cabinets are ready for service, and will continue adding cabinets as per their internal schedule (which isn't publicised at all). Obviously they can only do this if the exchange is actually ready at the time.

Our exchange went live in November, and many cabinets went live in mid December. My cabinet, although installed at the same time as the others, only went live in April.
Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Sat 14-May-11 10:00:26
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
In my case it's the Midlands but as usual it wasn't clear. Completely OT but I wish someone would agree on what region we're in. Some people class Brackley as the South East rather than the Midlands. That actually makes sense to most of us because we tend to be part of the South East economy. Anyway it still says December 2011 so that's okay smile

Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he can smile
Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Sat 14-May-11 10:02:34
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
In reply to a post by Anonymous:
Yes, that is exactly reason why I hate BT. There isn't enough BT infinity enabled exchanges in West Midlands.


all of midlands is bad but the east midlands is significantly worse off than the west, as at least birmingham is seeing some action.
South Midlands is doing well considering how rural it is but then (as i implied in my other reply) for economic reasons it's probably better thought of as part of the South East.

Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he can smile
Standard User parish
(experienced) Sat 14-May-11 10:04:34
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
No. It seems BT will announce an exchange as live when 10 cabinets are ready for service, and will continue adding cabinets as per their internal schedule (which isn't publicised at all). Obviously they can only do this if the exchange is actually ready at the time.

Our exchange went live in November, and many cabinets went live in mid December. My cabinet, although installed at the same time as the others, only went live in April.


Ah, so it's all marketing hype then? They can claim that X% of exchanges are enabled, implying that X% of homes can get Infinity when, in reality, maybe only 10% of the X% can.

What led me to believe that once an exchange was enabled that everyone connected to it could get Infinity (except the few where technical limitations prevented it) was that I had an email from BT at the end of August last year saying that Infinity would be available to me "soon". At that time my exchange was listed as going live on 30 Sept.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Sat 14-May-11 11:34:16
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: parish] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by parish:
Ah, so it's all marketing hype then? They can claim that X% of exchanges are enabled, implying that X% of homes can get Infinity when, in reality, maybe only 10% of the X% can.

What led me to believe that once an exchange was enabled that everyone connected to it could get Infinity (except the few where technical limitations prevented it) was that I had an email from BT at the end of August last year saying that Infinity would be available to me "soon". At that time my exchange was listed as going live on 30 Sept.


Oh they are very careful to say that they have enabled exchanges passing x% of homes rather.

Quite annoying that they feel the need to do it given their customer base to be honest, oh well.
Standard User WWWombat
(member) Sun 15-May-11 02:04:41
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
When they quote the number of homes passed, I don't think they quote the total number of homes within an exchange. I'm pretty sure they're going cabinet-by-cabinet. I could be wrong, but TBH it doesn't make *that* much difference in the grand scheme of things - 6 months tops to go from 20% of an exchange area to 85%?

Yes, they've been unwise about their marketing of "soon" - especially right now. I think we're caught "now" because they've been burnt once (so everything has been moved back), and they've learnt to be more cautious with the predictions for the future - so "soon" becomes "later" and "later" becomes "even later".

It might be annoying, but they're learning that there is a lot of demand - in certain areas, anyway. The constraints behind a national roll-out (it takes time, even with infinite money & infinite good will) means you *have* to keep the demanders informed.
Standard User Philce
(committed) Tue 17-May-11 11:02:18
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Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
In reply to a post by hareng:
Quite true but most of the West Mids have a reasonable connection speed compared to what i have to put up with for 11 years on ADSL and ADSL2+. Its only been just over 6 years before i could get ADSL on 1/2meg fixed and had to push for that.

Incidentally 7 local cabs 6 of which were FTTC enabled last year supplying around 20,000 homes and i am the third to take it up, whats all the fuss?
Very few here are able to maintain over 1 meg excluding the shear number of dropouts measured in hundreds a day.

Both BT engineers stated only the worst areas will be done first, not my words. These same two separate engineers covered the West Mids and Staffs, next call could be 25 mile away far side of Brum or next door.


The exchanges picked in my area are short line areas. I would assume they will go for low cost rollout areas first which would probably mean short line areas first.


Chris, I disagree, they arent doing anything to the actual existing cabling, the cabs sit next to the exisiting PCP, then splice in. Fibre back to the exchange might be different, but the rural exchanges being done cant have a shorter length than we have here?

I drove through Loughborough last week and its annoying seeing all the FTTC cabs springing up everywhere!
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 17-May-11 22:21:21
Print Post

Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Philce] [link to this post]
 
I forgot the affluency link, in our case there is a heavy link to affluency. It would seem in parts of the country where BT are only activating a few exchanges they they prioritising affluency, however these out of city exchanges picked still have short cable runs from the exchange as well.

My cable run to my cabinet from the exchange is over 3.5km, significantly longer than the rural areas picked.

Edited by Chrysalis (Tue 17-May-11 22:21:43)

Standard User Justo
(newbie) Wed 18-May-11 10:52:38
Print Post

Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
I am not so sure about the length of the runs involved being a factor, but I do agree affluency probably is. Surely the most important factor would be the multiplier of speed available - if someone currently gets 2meg and you're offering 30meg they will jump at it and guarantee your return on investment quicker than an area where you're offering a jump from say 13meg to 30meg.

I would imagine the cost increase on longer runs is not very high as the cost would mainly originate from the cabs, exchange work and opening up the ducts regardless of lengths.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Mon 30-May-11 23:23:54
Print Post

Re: For The Curious .... Richmond Council


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Methinks Richmond Council lied.
I have just checked their site, and several proposals for new cabinets in the Petersham / Ham area were refused planning permission on basis like:
- near an existing Grade 2 Listed building
- harmful to the appearance and character of the Conservation Area
- compromise integrity of nearby trees
- MIGHT compromise the freeflow of traffic in the nearby area.

A quick check found all 5 proposals within 1 km of my house were refused by Richmond.

And here was me like a pillock, just waiting for BT's published date of 1st June (2 days away!) to come around!!!!!
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Tue 31-May-11 07:20:02
Print Post

Re: For The Curious .... Richmond Council


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
My recollection of Ham, was of very many v.old, and almost surely listed, buildings, and that at least the main road through being very narrow ....... so sounds considered/conservative its response.

Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Tue 31-May-11 10:46:42
Print Post

Re: For The Curious .... Richmond Council


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
I see what you mean about Petersham / Ham. Ouch.

I read a statement that they were very keen to get this done and saw some objections ignored for previous requests.

I will admit to not being that surprised though. Richmond is full of NIMBYs who naturally elect NIMBY-friendly councillors.
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 31-May-11 16:23:47
Print Post

Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Justo] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Justo:
I am not so sure about the length of the runs involved being a factor, but I do agree affluency probably is. Surely the most important factor would be the multiplier of speed available - if someone currently gets 2meg and you're offering 30meg they will jump at it and guarantee your return on investment quicker than an area where you're offering a jump from say 13meg to 30meg.

I would imagine the cost increase on longer runs is not very high as the cost would mainly originate from the cabs, exchange work and opening up the ducts regardless of lengths.


Thats the way I look at it but I dont think BT do.

They see it as a up to 8meg or up to 24mbit rather than what actual speeds are achievable on adsl. So in affect that doesnt come into it when they pick an area. I think they only look at cost to rollout and the predicted sales which they seem to think affluency has a bearing on.

Another factor as well for leics central is I was told by an engineer that the cable run for my cabinet at least goes under st margarets way, which is why I also got noise bursts at certian rush hour hours. I would hazard a guess its considerably cheaper and easier to dig up some side street than it is a a central ring road which merges 4 main trunk roads and deals with all city centre traffic.

Edited by Chrysalis (Tue 31-May-11 22:13:51)

Standard User WWWombat
(member) Tue 31-May-11 17:07:21
Print Post

Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
I would hazard a guess its considerably cheaper and easier to dig up some side street than it is a a central ring road which merges 4 main trunk roads and deals with all city centre traffic.

I thought that was what ducting was for - to prevent the need for digging up. And where better than under somewhere sensitive to spurious roadworks!
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 31-May-11 18:04:43
Print Post

Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
FTTC - ducting if in place, not blocked and has space yes they will use it.

New ducting for the power link to the cab and also for the copper link between existing cabinet and the new one too. Plus digging to set the new cabinet into the ground.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 31-May-11 22:18:54
Print Post

Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
I would hazard a guess its considerably cheaper and easier to dig up some side street than it is a a central ring road which merges 4 main trunk roads and deals with all city centre traffic.

I thought that was what ducting was for - to prevent the need for digging up. And where better than under somewhere sensitive to spurious roadworks!


yeah but they have serious issues around here with blocked ducts so I assume digging would be required.
Standard User Yaz
(experienced) Tue 31-May-11 22:46:29
Print Post

Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
In reply to a post by RandomJointer:
I was talking about streetworks noticing rather than planning permission.


Tons of conservation areas around here, surely there would have been applications for the cabinets in those areas going in as well? None went in until the past weeks, certainly none were done before March 2011, the original date.


Still barking up the wrong tree Ignitionnet.

Streetworks noticing/permitting is for works in/on the highway and has to be submitted to the local highway authority. Planning permissions should be sorted out before it reaches this stage (or at least in principle).

Can't say too much but certain contractors for Openreach are rather poor at noticing/permitting, or at least keeping to the dates/details of said notice/permit. Have yet to experience the rollout in the areas that are nearest to me wink.

vFast Ltd
Downstream ~10 mbps (megabits per second) - ~1250 KBps (kilobytes per second)
Upstream ~2 mbps (megabits per second) - ~250 KBps (kilobytes per second)
Sky MID
Downstream Att. ~62db - SNR ~5.5db - Sync - ~2784 Kbps
Upstream Att. ~31db - SNR ~16db - Sync - ~832 Kbps
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Tue 31-May-11 22:57:13
Print Post

Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Yaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Yaz:
In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
In reply to a post by RandomJointer:
I was talking about streetworks noticing rather than planning permission.


Tons of conservation areas around here, surely there would have been applications for the cabinets in those areas going in as well? None went in until the past weeks, certainly none were done before March 2011, the original date.


Still barking up the wrong tree Ignitionnet.

Streetworks noticing/permitting is for works in/on the highway and has to be submitted to the local highway authority. Planning permissions should be sorted out before it reaches this stage (or at least in principle).

Can't say too much but certain contractors for Openreach are rather poor at noticing/permitting, or at least keeping to the dates/details of said notice/permit. Have yet to experience the rollout in the areas that are nearest to me wink.


Regardless of semantics applications needed to go into the borough council before cabinets could be built, none were. This is the same process that governs street works too.
Standard User WWWombat
(member) Tue 31-May-11 23:07:15
Print Post

Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
yeah but they have serious issues around here with blocked ducts so I assume digging would be required.

Which suggests they've been cutting costs on the ducting, so it doesn't stand up to the pressure underground.

Given that ducting is an added cost in the first place, whose benefit is only for sometime in the future... then it is a serious miscalculation if it turns out to be unsuitable when the future comes!

I wonder who will foot the bill when Fujitsu/Sky/Virgin come calling, wanting to share the ducts wink
Moderator billford
(moderator) Tue 31-May-11 23:12:36
Print Post

Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
I wonder who will foot the bill when Fujitsu/Sky/Virgin come calling, wanting to share the ducts wink
It could explain why Virgin et al thought the proposed costs of duct sharing to be excessively high... maybe BT had a fair idea of the condition many of them were in?

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill

[email protected] _______________Planes and Cars and ..._______________BQM & Speed
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Yaz
(experienced) Tue 31-May-11 23:48:10
Print Post

Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
Regardless of semantics applications needed to go into the borough council before cabinets could be built, none were. This is the same process that governs street works too.

I'm not saying that planning had/hadn't been carried out. The part of RandomJointer's post that I am referring to is:

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:
I would have a guess that some delays were down to maybe Openreach considering FTTC cabinets as minor works and maybe some councils considering FTTC cabinets as major noticeable works.


Minor, Standard & Major works notice/permits add additional time on top of the planning phase. Obviously, if planning permission is required, then this should have been sorted out before noticing/permitting.

**Edit**
From what I have recall, the majority of cab works have been Standard works. Then again the cab works haven't reached the areas that will directly affect me yet.

vFast Ltd
Downstream ~10 mbps (megabits per second) - ~1250 KBps (kilobytes per second)
Upstream ~2 mbps (megabits per second) - ~250 KBps (kilobytes per second)
Sky MID
Downstream Att. ~62db - SNR ~5.5db - Sync - ~2784 Kbps
Upstream Att. ~31db - SNR ~16db - Sync - ~832 Kbps

Edited by Yaz (Tue 31-May-11 23:54:32)

Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Wed 01-Jun-11 11:53:54
Print Post

Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Yaz] [link to this post]
 
OK.

Permission is required in many areas here as there's a load of conservation areas here in the borough so applications are inevitable.
Standard User Yaz
(experienced) Wed 01-Jun-11 20:37:24
Print Post

Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
OK.

Permission is required in many areas here as there's a load of conservation areas here in the borough so applications are inevitable.


I will be checking our local city council planning website in the near future. I will certainly be speaking with work colleagues regarding the relevant streetworks notice/permits.

You might find this site useful for all things roadworks related www.elgin.gov.uk.

The site isn't specific for FTTC cab works but you can setup Email or RSS alerts for specific areas that will show who, what, where and when works are being carried out on the highway.

FTTC cab works will usually include work notices/permits for Openreach and the area electric utility company.

vFast Ltd
Downstream ~10 mbps (megabits per second) - ~1250 KBps (kilobytes per second)
Upstream ~2 mbps (megabits per second) - ~250 KBps (kilobytes per second)
Sky MID
Downstream Att. ~62db - SNR ~5.5db - Sync - ~2784 Kbps
Upstream Att. ~31db - SNR ~16db - Sync - ~832 Kbps
Standard User johnhol
(newbie) Thu 02-Jun-11 10:14:02
Print Post

Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Yaz] [link to this post]
 
Well according to my local council OpenReach have not requested anything for my estate even though the checker says by 30/06......Exchange is done and plenty of people I know in Uxbridge have FTTC....surely they must not need permission otherwise this is still way off.
Standard User Yaz
(experienced) Thu 02-Jun-11 20:31:53
Print Post

Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: johnhol] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by johnhol:
Well according to my local council OpenReach have not requested anything for my estate even though the checker says by 30/06......Exchange is done and plenty of people I know in Uxbridge have FTTC....surely they must not need permission otherwise this is still way off.


Are you talking about planning permission? Planning permission may not be required for a cabinet to be installed (check with the local district council planning dept).

A streetworks notice/permit will be required prior to any works being carried out on the highway. Check the picture below for noticing periods:
Streetworks noticing

The ELGIN website will only show you notices/permits that are either current or planned (and only where the local highway authority system links in AND if a notice/permit has been applied for/granted). Once the works notice/permit has expired (not necessarily works completed/carried out), ELGIN will no longer list the works (though the local highway authority will still have records of the works on the internal systems).

vFast Ltd
Downstream ~10 mbps (megabits per second) - ~1250 KBps (kilobytes per second)
Upstream ~2 mbps (megabits per second) - ~250 KBps (kilobytes per second)
Sky MID
Downstream Att. ~62db - SNR ~5.5db - Sync - ~2784 Kbps
Upstream Att. ~31db - SNR ~16db - Sync - ~832 Kbps
Standard User Justo
(learned) Fri 03-Jun-11 09:25:00
Print Post

Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Yaz] [link to this post]
 
Do OR/Telent need a streetworks permit for a new cab though? I thought they were exempt under old GPO rules. Unless they need to dig up the road to lay power or get back to the original cab, I wonder if the new ones can go in without any traceable paperwork being filed?
Standard User johnhol
(newbie) Fri 03-Jun-11 10:03:53
Print Post

Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Justo] [link to this post]
 
Well a neighbour said we had an openreach van on the estate and he was walking between the main ropad and our estate cab. I know there is a new cabinet planned near the entrance to the estate and it seems that we may be connected to that..

Thought the fibre cab had to be next to the old cab you are on.
Standard User Ribble
(member) Fri 03-Jun-11 12:22:26
Print Post

Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Justo] [link to this post]
 
The New Roads Streeeorks Act equally applies to OR as any other utility. Code powers allows OR to install equipment without planning permission in many case but noticing is required for works in the highway or where the works is within certain proximity to it
Standard User Yaz
(experienced) Fri 03-Jun-11 19:26:16
Print Post

Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Ribble] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ribble:
The New Roads Streeeorks Act equally applies to OR as any other utility. Code powers allows OR to install equipment without planning permission in many case but noticing is required for works in the highway or where the works is within certain proximity to it


This.

vFast Ltd
Downstream ~10 mbps (megabits per second) - ~1250 KBps (kilobytes per second)
Upstream ~2 mbps (megabits per second) - ~250 KBps (kilobytes per second)
Sky MID
Downstream Att. ~62db - SNR ~5.5db - Sync - ~2784 Kbps
Upstream Att. ~31db - SNR ~16db - Sync - ~832 Kbps
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Sat 04-Jun-11 11:58:18
Print Post

Re: For The Curious .... Richmond Council


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
I can, regretfully, confirm that Richmond Council were indeed economical with the truth.

I can find 19 applications within my local area, each and every one refused.
Standard User gastro2008
(member) Sat 04-Jun-11 20:00:22
Print Post

Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Yeah no date for me this year or next , but already done a couple of small exchanges near here
I am on MYWAK exchange and Lofthouse has already been done. But can wait the cabinet is about 20 yards from me.
Standard User Yaz
(experienced) Sat 04-Jun-11 21:44:09
Print Post

Re: For The Curious .... Richmond Council


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Unlucky.

Maybe it's worth letting the local paper know so they can do a local news piece raising awareness about the refusals.

vFast Ltd
Downstream ~10 mbps (megabits per second) - ~1250 KBps (kilobytes per second)
Upstream ~2 mbps (megabits per second) - ~250 KBps (kilobytes per second)
Sky MID
Downstream Att. ~62db - SNR ~5.5db - Sync - ~2784 Kbps
Upstream Att. ~31db - SNR ~16db - Sync - ~832 Kbps
Standard User FRS_Plunderer
(experienced) Sat 04-Jun-11 23:03:05
Print Post

Re: For The Curious .... Richmond Council


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
I guess Richmond Council don't like fast internetz...
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Sat 04-Jun-11 23:25:58
Print Post

Re: For The Curious .... Richmond Council


[re: FRS_Plunderer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by FRS_Plunderer:
I guess Richmond Council don't like fast internetz...


Just wait until the lack of fast internet starts affecting their house prices, then you'll hear the botching.
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 05-Jun-11 22:22:54
Print Post

Re: For The Curious .... Richmond Council


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Whats the reason for turning down? the council dont want progress?
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Mon 06-Jun-11 16:55:22
Print Post

Re: For The Curious .... Richmond Council


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
I can, regretfully, confirm that Richmond Council were indeed economical with the truth.

I can find 19 applications within my local area, each and every one refused.


All that said BT and Richmond Council's planning department were going to liaise on placement of these cabinets, BT instead placed them where they could outside conservation areas and submitted a load of applications for conservation areas, of which there are many.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Sat 11-Jun-11 06:18:02
Print Post

Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: gastro2008] [link to this post]
 
Thought I'd give my two cents on the matter.

My exchange (Northolt) has been on the rollout list since June 2010, next to one of the pilot projects in Greenford (a few mins away). I used to work in Greenford, and I was extremely impressed by the pace at which fleets of BT Openreach vans/trucks would swarm in to an area and install new cabinets. It completely changed my view of BT engineers (the stereotypical tea sipping dossers).

I have been desperate for a faster connection for the past 8 years living on a new street that wasn't cabled by Virgin, and as a result I can only get 6Mb maximum on ADSL2+. I was elated by the news that my exchange would go live in June of 2010, amidst the first few exchanges in the country, but I later discovered a BT PDF that detailed new enablement dates for my exchange. June became September.. September became December. December became March, then became June, then July 1st, and now my exchange has been delayed until December 2011. An overall delay of 18 months frown

This is extremely disappointing. I have watched all the surrounding exchanges being enabled, with fancy new cabinets popping up on literally every street corner for miles around. I wouldn't feel so negative about the whole situation if i actually saw the fleets of BT trucks rolling in to my town, and whipping those new cabinets in to place, but it just hasn't happened. And I'm skeptical as to whether it will happen this year. The rollout is really testing my patience to the limit, but I have seen first hand the speed at which BT can install cabinets. So somewhere deep down, I'm still a little optimistic. BT just need to get their skates on laugh
Standard User johnhol
(newbie) Tue 14-Jun-11 10:09:51
Print Post

Re: For The Curious About Openreach FTTC Delays


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Anonymous:
Thought I'd give my two cents on the matter.

My exchange (Northolt) has been on the rollout list since June 2010, next to one of the pilot projects in Greenford (a few mins away). I used to work in Greenford, and I was extremely impressed by the pace at which fleets of BT Openreach vans/trucks would swarm in to an area and install new cabinets. It completely changed my view of BT engineers (the stereotypical tea sipping dossers).

I have been desperate for a faster connection for the past 8 years living on a new street that wasn't cabled by Virgin, and as a result I can only get 6Mb maximum on ADSL2+. I was elated by the news that my exchange would go live in June of 2010, amidst the first few exchanges in the country, but I later discovered a BT PDF that detailed new enablement dates for my exchange. June became September.. September became December. December became March, then became June, then July 1st, and now my exchange has been delayed until December 2011. An overall delay of 18 months frown

This is extremely disappointing. I have watched all the surrounding exchanges being enabled, with fancy new cabinets popping up on literally every street corner for miles around. I wouldn't feel so negative about the whole situation if i actually saw the fleets of BT trucks rolling in to my town, and whipping those new cabinets in to place, but it just hasn't happened. And I'm skeptical as to whether it will happen this year. The rollout is really testing my patience to the limit, but I have seen first hand the speed at which BT can install cabinets. So somewhere deep down, I'm still a little optimistic. BT just need to get their skates on laugh


Welcome to my world.

I signed up with BT at the beginning of February after being told Infinity would be reaqdy by 31st March (this was already 6 months late), then on the 31st I tried ordering and was told 30th June.........now today it's December.

Livid, only reason i went back to BT was because they said Infinity was at most a month away.

Not a sniff of an engineer near our estate.
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