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Standard User izools
(committed) Wed 25-May-11 17:18:46
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A question about FTTP Deployment


[link to this post]
 
If any OR guys are familiar with FTTP and how it's being rolled out.

I noticed on my travels today that all of the old build estates around here have the pavements marked up for FTTP deployment. "New Duct" sprayed in places, arrorws or crosses on manhole covers denoting whether they need expanding or whatever.

That's the old roads though. The new estate I'll be moving in to soon - bang in the middle of the old roads already marked up - hasn't been marked up.

The difference being that the new build is all underground cabling and is purpose built flats.

My question is this -

Are purpose built flats just as easy to FTTP as old houses with overhead cabling?

Worried that the old estates with overhead lines are getting FTTP but the new build won't be due to it being inpractical to blow fibre up the walls inside the flats...

Oh, I asked some OR guys lurking on Queen Street (WWEXTR) if Richmond Court will be getting it... they replied with "Dunno. It's going pretty much everywhere". Dunno? He was sat having a fag beside a reel of fibre about a five second walk from Richmond Court. LOL

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Edited by izools (Wed 25-May-11 17:34:18)

Standard User bezuk
(member) Wed 25-May-11 17:39:09
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: izools] [link to this post]
 
As someone who has lived in properties like this (modern purpose built flats) for a very long time in multiple towns and cities, it's something that worries me greatly.

Based on VM's extremely low fibre coverage in modern flats, I'd assume that it must be extremely hard if not impossible to refit an existing block with new cabling. None of the blocks I've lived in have been served by them, and requests for coverage sent to cablemystreet are quickly refused.

Even FTTC would be progress, but having checked the postcode/cabinet spreadsheet that was floating around on this site, none of the large blocks in my town will be getting FTTC either. I'm not even sure if they use cabinets for this type of property - if they did, they'd have to be enormous as there are so many units.

In other countries, "fibre to the building", where the VDSL2 or other terminating equipment sits in the basement and is fed by fibre, is much more commonplace. But I haven't heard of this happening anywhere in the UK.

I can't remember the figure for % of UK pop that lives in flats, but it seems like it must be a huge chunk to basically "miss out" with every next generation technology. ADSL2+, even if it's fast, won't last forever.

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Standard User izools
(committed) Wed 25-May-11 17:44:33
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: bezuk] [link to this post]
 
Indeed.

My old flat is over the road, in which I had Virgin Cable 50 Meg. Worked a treat.

This old road is also getting FTTP, they've marked up the pavement already and are scurrying about with new duct in places.

New flat purpose built across the way (literally across the street) doesn't have VM Cable available.

I know that the new purpose built flats are fed by the same cab (PCP98) as my old converted flat - which isn't being FTTC'd, but FTTP'd. So if they can't blow fibre into the new estate, I won't get any form of next gen broadband as FTTC and FTTP are mutually exclusive. No areas are served by both.

frown Ah well, here's hoping nonetheless!

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Edited by izools (Wed 25-May-11 17:45:20)


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Standard User nredwood
(knowledge is power) Wed 25-May-11 20:20:31
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: izools] [link to this post]
 
Not an option for you, izools in Exeter, but definitely something to watch
http://www.hyperoptic.com/#2

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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 25-May-11 20:30:33
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: nredwood] [link to this post]
 
I thought the third (cami) and fourth (john) replies to this post about it were rather good cool.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User GMAN98
(committed) Wed 25-May-11 20:32:04
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: bezuk] [link to this post]
 
I'm sure Fibering flats is totally do-able not sure about the cost though. There's no VM fibre coverage in flats AFAIK. Virgin's Fibre stops at the node (FTTN) its coax from there onwards.
Standard User nredwood
(knowledge is power) Wed 25-May-11 20:54:14
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
laugh

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Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Wed 25-May-11 21:51:08
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: GMAN98] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GMAN98:
I'm sure Fibering flats is totally do-able not sure about the cost though. There's no VM fibre coverage in flats AFAIK. Virgin's Fibre stops at the node (FTTN) its coax from there onwards.


The block I'm in has cable available - the VM installers run the cable in trunking on the exterior of the building up to the required height (our blocks are 3 stories) and then drill through the wall as necessary. Most of my neighbours have cable due to lack of suitable south facing wall to install a sat dish.

James - be* pro - on THFB - sync about 17.2mbps - BQM
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 26-May-11 09:20:06
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: GMAN98] [link to this post]
 
In correct my old flat had VM cable (coax) their fibre stops at a node remember.

For VM anything over £300 and hassle with wayleaves and they walk away

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 26-May-11 09:22:31
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: izools] [link to this post]
 
New estate will have all the necessary ducting in place, the BT fibre roll-out is intended to re-use existing ducting and manholes where possible.

There is nothing inherently bad about flats other than how do existing phone cables enter property, if via a tube that the fibre can be sent down then no-issues.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User GMAN98
(committed) Thu 26-May-11 09:24:22
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I thought that's what I said Andrew? No Virgin fibre into flats, it stops at the node.

I'm talking about actual physical fibre not what Virgin call fibre smile
Standard User GMAN98
(committed) Thu 26-May-11 09:27:31
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Again.. I'm not talking about Virgin cable, I'm talking about fibre, their fibre stops at the node its coax after that.

I'm not saying there are no Virgin cabled flats, I'm saying there are no Virgin fibre cables into flats, Virgin don't (apart from the odd trial) do FTTP its FTTN
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 26-May-11 09:30:33
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: GMAN98] [link to this post]
 
True, was making sure it was clear that VM services were available, to the general reader, VM is fibre into their home

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User driz
(newbie) Thu 26-May-11 09:31:52
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: GMAN98] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GMAN98:
I'm talking about actual physical fibre not what Virgin call fibre smile


Also what BT call fibre! frown None of it [censored] is it seems in almost all cases.

What will FTTP be marketed as? Laserbeams?

BT Infinity^2 - powered by laserbeams!

This is OT.
Standard User lumuah
(learned) Thu 26-May-11 10:41:26
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: driz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by driz:
What will FTTP be marketed as? Laserbeams?

BT Infinity^2 - powered by laserbeams!


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-13899...

You may not be far wrong.....
Standard User GMAN98
(committed) Thu 26-May-11 10:54:50
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: driz] [link to this post]
 
smile

Don't get me started! That ship has sailed I think as even more ISP's are using FTTC now and branding it fibre.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 26-May-11 11:07:51
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: driz] [link to this post]
 
I am happy using my FTTE link

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User GMAN98
(committed) Thu 26-May-11 11:14:46
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
lol,

Don't give ISP's new branding ideas!!!
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 27-May-11 12:08:45
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: izools] [link to this post]
 
if it mostly flats in that area it could be due to affluency?

still no change in leicestershire on the BT front, 1.6% enabled for FTTC or planned, 0% enabled or planned for FTTP. 34.2% enabled for VM cable.
Standard User izools
(committed) Fri 27-May-11 12:37:38
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
if it mostly flats in that area it could be due to affluency?

still no change in leicestershire on the BT front, 1.6% enabled for FTTC or planned, 0% enabled or planned for FTTP. 34.2% enabled for VM cable.


I doubt it's do do with affluency, they're some of the more expensive flats in the city.

_____________________________________________
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Standard User izools
(committed) Fri 27-May-11 12:39:52
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: GMAN98] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GMAN98:
I'm sure Fibering flats is totally do-able not sure about the cost though. There's no VM fibre coverage in flats AFAIK. Virgin's Fibre stops at the node (FTTN) its coax from there onwards.


I spoke to VM about it and they confirmed I can't get cable because the owners of the Leasehold (i.e. developers) recinded permission to put duct up the side of the flats for Cable installs.

They also neglected to run CoAx when the block was built.

If they had run CoAx to each flat ready for VM to terminate in the basement (or Telewest as it was then) when they were built five or so years ago I'd be able to get Cable.

Never mind.

_____________________________________________
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16830K 28dB 3.0dB Down, 1376K 16dB 3.0dB Up
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Delivered over 5GHz 802.11N via a Netgear DGND3300
Standard User WWWombat
(member) Fri 27-May-11 12:44:32
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: izools] [link to this post]
 
Is there anything to stop you, as a set of flats, from organising your own installation of coax, or cat5e, to the basement?

Who manages the flats now? Can they be persuaded to do anything?
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 28-May-11 09:15:44
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: izools] [link to this post]
 
seems developers need to get in the real world, if they keep building with these types of policies they will eventually have people refusing to move in due to lack of telecom infastructure.
Standard User WWWombat
(member) Sat 28-May-11 15:08:33
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Too true.

When moving, it probably ranks as high as schools for me - and certainly a deal-breaker.

Imagine house prices depending on proximity to both good schools and a fibre cabinet wink
Standard User bb4chudleigh
(committed) Sat 28-May-11 16:09:07
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: izools] [link to this post]
 
Interesting, I was unaware that Exeter was getting FTTP. Any links to a press release?
Standard User Neken
(knowledge is power) Sat 28-May-11 17:06:01
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: bb4chudleigh] [link to this post]
 
Not a press release, but you might want to check the list of post codes which was found in this thread.

WWEXTR is listed and with quite a few FTTP post codes.

__________________________________________________________
How can one little insulated wire bring so much happiness! - Homer Simpson
Standard User GMAN98
(committed) Sat 28-May-11 18:27:55
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
Its amazing isn't it. Cat5'ing the whole block would cater for everything voice, video, phone etc etc
Standard User bb4chudleigh
(committed) Sat 28-May-11 18:36:01
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: Neken] [link to this post]
 
Thanks, someone has kindly pm'd me a link to the data in a graphical format smile
Standard User izools
(committed) Sat 28-May-11 20:07:17
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: bb4chudleigh] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bb4chudleigh:
Interesting, I was unaware that Exeter was getting FTTP. Any links to a press release?


There hasn't been any press release but I can go out and take some pics of extra manholes being dug up Queen Street & Haldon Road to accomodate underground FTTP manifolds if you like? wink

_____________________________________________
Be* Unlimited
16830K 28dB 3.0dB Down, 1376K 16dB 3.0dB Up
14Mbit Sustained throughput, 20ms Sustained Ping
Delivered over 5GHz 802.11N via a Netgear DGND3300
Standard User burakkucat
(member) Sat 28-May-11 22:16:25
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: izools] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by izools:
. . . but I can go out and take some pics of extra manholes being dug up Queen Street & Haldon Road to accomodate underground FTTP manifolds if you like? wink
In all seriousness there are people, like myself, who would appreciate sight of a set of photographs of such holes and their contents. smile

-----------------------------------------------------

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User izools
(committed) Sat 28-May-11 22:45:40
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burakkucat:
In reply to a post by izools:
. . . but I can go out and take some pics of extra manholes being dug up Queen Street & Haldon Road to accomodate underground FTTP manifolds if you like? wink
In all seriousness there are people, like myself, who would appreciate sight of a set of photographs of such holes and their contents. smile


I'll see what I can do smile

_____________________________________________
Be* Unlimited
16830K 28dB 3.0dB Down, 1376K 16dB 3.0dB Up
14Mbit Sustained throughput, 20ms Sustained Ping
Delivered over 5GHz 802.11N via a Netgear DGND3300
Standard User burakkucat
(member) Sat 28-May-11 22:52:02
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: izools] [link to this post]
 
Appreciated. Thank you.

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100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User bookey
(experienced) Sun 29-May-11 19:08:10
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
Here is something to tide you over.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/03/bt_milton_ke...

Lets just hope you don't need any Kleenex! laugh

Paul
ISP Representative DaveTomlinson
(isp) Sun 29-May-11 19:25:48
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: izools] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

The Openreach FTTP rollout has yet to trial installs in blocks of flats and multi occupancy business units. The last I heard was that they were going to extend the Bradwell Abbey trial to two additional cabinets so they could do some installations in blocks of flats.

There are a load of complications with flats centred around how they feed the fibre from the street to flat and also around permissions. As an example, I live in a flat and with mine the copper is run through ducts and up into a distribution point on the ground floor. Only the management company for the flats have access to the cupboard where the distribution point is (the power and other things are in there as well). The copper is then fed up through the walls. So to install FTTP here Openreach would need to co-ordinate with the building's management company and deal with the complicated task of feeding the fibre up to my flat.

There's plenty of other issues too but hopefully they will start to trial the process out shortly.

Regards,

Dave Tomlinson
PlusNet Product Team
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User izools
(committed) Sun 29-May-11 19:51:54
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Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: bookey] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bookey:
Here is something to tide you over.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/03/bt_milton_ke...

Lets just hope you don't need any Kleenex! laugh


Fascinating. Thanks for the link smile

_____________________________________________
Be* Unlimited
16830K 28dB 3.0dB Down, 1376K 16dB 3.0dB Up
14Mbit Sustained throughput, 20ms Sustained Ping
Delivered over 5GHz 802.11N via a Netgear DGND3300
Standard User burakkucat
(member) Sun 29-May-11 20:20:54
Print Post

Re: A question about FTTP Deployment


[re: bookey] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bookey:
Here is something to tide you over.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/03/bt_milton_ke...

Lets just hope you don't need any Kleenex! laugh
An interesting read. Thank you.

-----------------------------------------------------

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
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