Another 1 Bites the Dust

On Friday my BT modem decided to give up and like a lot of other people on BT Infinity had to have a new fitted this morning and am back to normal, It lasted just over 2 months.
Any way while the engineer was here I aasked him to show me my line stats. This is what it says:-
SNR 11dB
Line Atten. 7.1dB
DS 40000
US 10000
Above are actual, by all accounts the default SNR is 11dB, It also showed that my line cab take 54.60Mb DS and 17.85Mb US.
Just tho people may like to know as the stats can't be obtained by us.

iechyd da

Stopped working? I'm not surprised, as most (but not every, I hasten to add) BT domestic kit that I've ever come across has always seemed to have been designed on the back of a fag packet. In the case of that VDSL modem, they couldn't even be bothered to make it visually professional-looking. Instead, it looks more like something you'd find in a bathroom. And all that nonsense about needing to fit it to a wall and only in the vertical orientation. Need I say more?

Let's hope that soon this particular component in the FTTC setup will become 'deregulated', so that more-fitting incarnations become available to us from the likes of Netgear, Draytek, Belkin, Billion, etc., perhaps some that'll be able to collect line data that we can access. And the sooner BT introduces 'self install' also, the better, as I get fed up hearing all this tosh about the modem only working properly if it's plugged into the master socket. Gimme a break!

Yeh, it's for reasons like these that I've held back from 'going FTTC'. As things stand at present with BT's implementation of FTTC, I'd have to forfeit some useful features I get with my ADSL2 setup. As someone who struggles to get even 4M bps downstream, I can tell you it's frustrating.

Aye it did stop working, in fact it started to smoke so I had a chat with it and told it he was 2 young to smoke but alas it ignored me lol. To be honest until it went wrong everything has been spot on for me. I understand what you say about low speeds, I was the same could only get aboyt 2Mb DS & 1Mb US now I get 38+Mb and 9+Mb US.

iechyd da

In reply to a post by meditator:

, I'd have to forfeit some useful features I get with my ADSL2 setup.

Such as ?

In reply to a post by MHC:

In reply to a post by meditator:

, I'd have to forfeit some useful features I get with my ADSL2 setup.

Such as ?

Just what I was thinking.

I lost a useful feature when I moved on from a Triumph Spitfire, in that I could open the bonnet, put one foot on the ground next to the engine, and tune the twin SUs with a piece of rubber tubing from the air intake to my ear.

Now if only I could do that with a modern engine ....

Ignoring what Mediator says, has the replacement modem been wall mounted ? If not, I'd suggest doing it yourself, 100ml centres.

Ours has been "horizontally mounted" ie "on the floor" for nearly a year and it's working fine.

Its a little unfair on BT kit, I remember a thread about Thomson 585V6 routers and how to modify them to reduce over-heating problems.

On an unrelated point. my Sheevaplug (I use it as a squeezebox server) bit the dust due to PSU overheat. It has been much happier with a seperate power supply.

No it's horizontally mounted on a unit with nothing around it, why is it better to be vertically mounted???????????? The only thing is that my speed has dropped from 38Mb+ to 20Mb ggggrrrrrrrrr

iechyd da

In reply to a post by paul1360:

No it's horizontally mounted on a unit with nothing around it, why is it better to be vertically mounted???????????? The only thing is that my speed has dropped from 38Mb+ to 20Mb ggggrrrrrrrrr

iechyd da

Airflow ... it is designed to be vertically mounted - lust look at where the air vents are.

In reply to a post by MHC:

In reply to a post by paul1360:

No it's horizontally mounted on a unit with nothing around it, why is it better to be vertically mounted???????????? The only thing is that my speed has dropped from 38Mb+ to 20Mb ggggrrrrrrrrr

iechyd da

Airflow ... it is designed to be vertically mounted - lust look at where the air vents are.

That doesn't make sense to me. The vents are at the front, both sides and underneath. Both horizontal and vertical mounting will partially block the vents underneath and leave the others free. I'm not saying it shouldn't be vertically mounted - mine ran very hot horizontal but is cool when vertical but I still don't fully understand why.

In reply to a post by kasg:

mine ran very hot horizontal but is cool when vertical but I still don't fully understand why.

Basically- when mounted horizontally there are no air vents in the top so no easy path for the flow of convective air currents.

That's cured by mounting it vertically.

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by kasg:

mine ran very hot horizontal but is cool when vertical but I still don't fully understand why.

Basically- when mounted horizontally there are no air vents in the top so no easy path for the flow of convective air currents.

That's cured by mounting it vertically.

Fair enough - hot air rises and all that!

Yes I would think that a vertical mount will allow heat to escape from the top of the side vents.

To allow for better access to the bottom vents if you mount it horizontal, Wilkinsons sell self-adhesive cork pads which you can stick underneath to increase the gap between the modem and whatever it is placed on. They come in 20's and are 19mm in dia. stick about three together to give lots of clearance.

In reply to a post by kasg:

Fair enough - hot air rises and all that!

That's it

Personally I think it's poor- it doesn't bother me (in fact it's out of the way on the wall!) but I can well imagine that vertically mounting could be inconvenient for some people.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by MHC:

In reply to a post by meditator:

, I'd have to forfeit some useful features I get with my ADSL2 setup.

Such as ?

Just what I was thinking.

I lost a useful feature when I moved on from a Triumph Spitfire, in that I could open the bonnet, put one foot on the ground next to the engine, and tune the twin SUs with a piece of rubber tubing from the air intake to my ear.

Now if only I could do that with a modern engine ....

Well you can stand completely inside the engine compartment of a Nissan Bluebird which is a bit more modern. You'd be hard pressed finding any carbs to listen to though

Now if you want to complain about small engine compartments try a Honda Jazz. Half of that power unit is underneath the dashboard.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/58675213@N08/5433967452/

Oh..and some people have far too much time and money on their hands it seems:

http://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-photos-videos/586...

It's also even further away from the 'golden days' of carburettors though - it has twin sparks and can stagger the timings to suit engine load. Personally I think that's really clever technology but take the computer out and I bet you'd never get even the merest cough from cranking it

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by MHC:

In reply to a post by meditator:

, I'd have to forfeit some useful features I get with my ADSL2 setup.

Such as ?

Just what I was thinking.

I lost a useful feature when I moved on from a Triumph Spitfire, in that I could open the bonnet, put one foot on the ground next to the engine, and tune the twin SUs with a piece of rubber tubing from the air intake to my ear.

Now if only I could do that with a modern engine ....

With the Morris Minor there was room to get in beside the engine and shelter under the bonnet from the rain when fixing it. On the other hand modern cars tend to need fixing a little less often, swings and balances

Yes, I agree with you, billford. With all the thermal management experience gained over a decade or more by other players in the router and modem markets, one would have thought that BT could come up with a design for a modem that not only took all of that into account and provided adequate margins but also looked the part. I suspect cheapness of manufacture may have something to do with it, ie. the modem was probably 'designed' by an accountant rather than an engineer.

Okay, so you've sensed that I'm a bit of a cynic. But that's because I'm a retired professional engineer/scientist who, during my career, adhered to high standards. Sadly, engineering design isn't what it used to be, at least not in the mass-market arena.

I can't understand what's so sacrosanct about BT's VDSL modem that they insist that (at least for the present) theirs and only theirs must be used. Instead, what we've got is a daft situation where they effectively hold the monopoly on the modem and yet the one they provide is restrictive and is, according to various users, generally not of reliable design.

I wish BT would instead stick to the areas of datacomms in which they're more experienced and skilled, rather than trying to produce mass-market kit of this kind.

In reply to a post by meditator:

I can't understand what's so sacrosanct about BT's VDSL modem that they insist that (at least for the present) theirs and only theirs must be used. Instead, what we've got is a daft situation where they effectively hold the monopoly on the modem and yet the one they provide is restrictive and is, according to various users, generally not of reliable design.

The modem is a Huawei unit, who are also providing most (if not all) of the cabinets, which is my guess as to why.. Same deal as when ADSL was first rolled out..

In reply to a post by meditator:

and yet the one [modem] they provide is restrictive and is, according to various users, generally not of reliable design.

I'm not convinced the modem is particularly unreliable... most of the reports give it as failing after running hot, which to me would also point to the power supply as a likely culprit.

If anything is designed down to a price it's those wallplug PSU's, whatever piece of kit they come with

Edited by billford (Tue 21-Jun-11 14:53:19)

When I referred to "the modem" as being (according to reports) unreliable, I meant the modem in its entirety.

If, as one respondent has stated, Huawei optical kit is used in the FTTC cabinets, and the VDSL modem at the subscriber's end is also of their design, then this in my view doesn't engender much confidence in the medium to longterm reliability of the subscriber's overall optical connection.

If you're launching a concept as big as this (ie. BT Infinity) and wanting to get as many consumers on board as possible, then why on earth compromise it by poor thermal design? I wonder just how many of the complainants of this modem would now still prefer the move to FTTC if they were back with their old ADSL2/2+ connection.

Edited by deleted (Tue 21-Jun-11 15:14:15)

I think you're probably overstating the problem.

Sure, the modem isn't as reliable as perhaps we might like, but what is the actual proportion of those that have failed?

I suspect it's actually quite low, certainly mine hasn't caused a moment's concern since it was installed last August, and it even ran reasonably cool when it was horizontal on the desk!

As I intimated earlier, I wall-mounted it to get it out of the way- it stood a high risk of being buried if it stayed on the desk

(This post isn't directed at you billford, I just can't find a reply button that doesn't force me to reply to a specific post.)

My modem wasn't wall mounted but I have proped it up against the wall and it seems to run at an acceptable temperature.

What does annoy me about this modem though is the fact I can't swap it out for another one when diagnosing an issue.

Calling out an engineer for them to find the modem isn't the problem and then charging me £150 (or however much it is now) doesn't sound fun.

If an engineer does have to visit me again I will be begging him to give me a spare modem.

I've done a bit of research around by me and guess what in the last 2 weeks 8 of us have had to have a new modem wow, Not expecting that, yes I've seen on forums that the BT modem seems to be breaking down.

iechyd da

I rest my case.

QED.

In reply to a post by meditator:

I wish BT would instead stick to the areas of datacomms in which they're more experienced and skilled, rather than trying to produce mass-market kit of this kind.

At one time BT was one of the market leaders in designing and building the various types of network terminations units - kilostream, megastream and various others over the years. Go round te world and you will find BT and previous GPO equipment, all over the place and a lot of it still running.

But yes, these days it is being driven by both accountants and the regulator.

That doesn't make sense to me. The vents are at the front, both sides and underneath. Both horizontal and vertical mounting will partially block the vents underneath and leave the others free.

Eh ? The cooling slots are on the sides and the top ?

What does annoy me about this modem though is the fact I can't swap it out for another one when diagnosing an issue.

Nothing stopping you from buying your own combined modem/router ?

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

That doesn't make sense to me. The vents are at the front, both sides and underneath. Both horizontal and vertical mounting will partially block the vents underneath and leave the others free.

Eh ? The cooling slots are on the sides and the top ?

With the modem horizontal, the slots are as I described.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

What does annoy me about this modem though is the fact I can't swap it out for another one when diagnosing an issue.

Nothing stopping you from buying your own combined modem/router ?

Are there any available and would it not be against the terms or something? I'm all for buying a modem if there is one available and it's not going to get me cut off.

I've just seen on another forum that some one has just got a Draytek Vigor 2750N and is going to set it up. According to the Draytek website you can use it on BT Infinity but you must remove HH3 and White modem. I didn't think BT will do anything if you use 3rd Party Equipment. If you get a fault You will have to replace back to their equipment. I've asked him to keep me updated on how it goes.

iechyd da

Thanks Paul, I actually read and bookmarked that thread just now, small world

In reply to a post by paul1360:

I've just seen on another forum that some one has just got a Draytek Vigor 2750N and is going to set it up. According to the Draytek website you can use it on BT Infinity but you must remove HH3 and White modem. I didn't think BT will do anything if you use 3rd Party Equipment. If you get a fault You will have to replace back to their equipment. I've asked him to keep me updated on how it goes.

iechyd da

Its got quite a price tag to go with it as well

Three or four VDSL2 routers have been tried and reported on here. The latest I saw, only a few weeks ago, was a Fritzbox of some description, that seemed to be the best so far. The others had assorted problems, though did work.

The ZyXEL P-2812HNU-51c looks nice, if somewhat costly at £250.

It's not yet for sale in the UK but can be imported from the continent.

http://www.zyxel.co.uk/web/product_family_detail.php...

Oh yes it is a bit pricey at £200, sorry I never checked.
A bit more information for you all, yesterday afternoon my modem started smoking again and I lost connection. So am a little bit fed up now, lucky my dongle still works. Send an email to BT and informed them of this and had a call back to tell me an Engineer will be with me this afternoon.
I'm now really looking at that Draytek if this keeps going on, 2 months nothing and now 2 new modem's in a couple of days. R well such is life.

iechyd da

I bought a Fritz!Box 7390, currently using it on ADSL2+ but plan to continue using it when I get FTTC later this year (cabinet installed 3 weeks ago, not yet active). It's a great piece of kit prividing real visibility into the DSL stats (graphed history of SNR margin and errors). I particularly like the fact I could pair my existing DECT phones and use the IP PBX with rules to route UK calls through the landline but international calls through VoIP.

I found the cheapest reseller to be Momilc in France. They sell it for EUR207 with free delivery:

http://www.momilc.com/avm-fritz-box-fon-wlan-7390.html

I had a total of four personal emails to keep me updated with stock and shipping. When it arrived they'd included the UK leads alongside the European ones, and thrown in a nice Fritz! baseball hat

In reply to a post by billford:

I think you're probably overstating the problem.

Sure, the modem isn't as reliable as perhaps we might like, but what is the actual proportion of those that have failed?

I suspect it's actually quite low, certainly mine hasn't caused a moment's concern since it was installed last August, and it even ran reasonably cool when it was horizontal on the desk!

As I intimated earlier, I wall-mounted it to get it out of the way- it stood a high risk of being buried if it stayed on the desk

You've got me worried now - mine was horizontally mounted on the carpet under the hall cupboard just beside the BT box. If you bend down you can just see the lights peeking out! It was placed there by the kindly BT engineer and has remained ever since. I best now go and check if it is hot and covered in dust and carpet fluff. Can't imagine that doing the vents much good He never suggested it would be better wall mounted - eeek. I best find a new spot for it - though she who must be obeyed has only just come to terms with the Netgear Router being on display for all to see instead of being hidden away in my office in the loft! Oh well

Tbh, if it isn't running hot I wouldn't worry about it. The orientation of the labelling indicates that it was designed for vertical mounting, but mine was quite happy when horizontal- I think it's just the luck of the draw .

Though if it's on carpet, I'd suggest a bit of wood or something underneath to stop the feet sinking in and blocking the underside vents.

... covered in dust and carpet fluff

If it is, tell SWMBO to take more care with the housework. Then run away

In reply to a post by billford:

Tbh, if it isn't running hot I wouldn't worry about it. The orientation of the labelling indicates that it was designed for vertical mounting, but mine was quite happy when horizontal- I think it's just the luck of the draw .

Though if it's on carpet, I'd suggest a bit of wood or something underneath to stop the feet sinking in and blocking the underside vents.

... covered in dust and carpet fluff

If it is, tell SWMBO to take more care with the housework. Then run away

Bill - I did SWMBO a dis-service it only had a very small amount of carpet fluff on top and while it was warm on the top the underside was hotter so I have placed it on the bottom shelf of the hall unit for greater airflow. I don't want to tempt fate having had a failed keyboard and PSU this week already. The first still in warranty the latter just outside



^taken wirelessly 2 floors up not hard wired^

My Infinity Modem lasted a week before it died. First symptom was a drop in the Upload speed, then a day later it died completely with the DSL light permanently flashing.

Give BT (or is it Open Reach) the benefit, they did send an Engineer along the following day to replace the Modem, which is still working after a month. Fingers crossed!

Mine is vertically mounted on the wall and is only just warm to the touch.

BT send the dud units back as they have a years warranty on them.

When I first got my FTTC installed, I had the OR modem and Hub3 sitting on my desk. I did notice the modem getting hot so to avoid any potential problems, I vertically mounted it on the back of the desk. No issues with heating since.

If anything, my Hub 3 is much hotter than the Modem...

Hub sits on my desk with plenty of ventilation.