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Standard User orly
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 06-Aug-11 23:03:39
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Re: Well now I've gone and done it!


[re: adebov] [link to this post]
 
It's perfectly acceptable to me. Here's another pic of what it's doing now: http://i.imgur.com/zADu9.jpg

Point is most of the non-BT users around here act as if you can't even use Bit Torrent because they need as many sticks to beat BT with as possible. In reality you can use all this stuff the haters say you can't. I find it funny. See my pics as documentary evidence of it. And this is on a saturday evening when most other ISPs lump you into "peak time". How quaint.

Plus it's not a 40mbit product in any event. I'm connected at about 25mbit, hopefully you'll get more.

But if £25.60 a month for upto 40mbit/10mbit, pretty much full speed ahead on every conceivable use is a "mistake" to you, then the best of the luck finding a better deal elsewhere. I'll save you the suspense - you won't be able to.

---
Click here to see Comparison of FTTC ISPs
Which FTTC ISP do you use?

BT Infinity 8th July 2010
(NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
25.5mbit down / 7.6mbit up

Edited by orly (Sat 06-Aug-11 23:52:01)

Standard User adebov
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 07-Aug-11 00:15:36
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Re: Well now I've gone and done it!


[re: orly] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by orly:
then the best of the luck finding a better deal elsewhere. I'll save you the suspense - you won't be able to.

You're right; I won't be able to (but that is only because I live too far from the exchange) but there are better deals out there for people close enough (BE's 24Mbps ADSL2+ product, which runs pretty much flat-out 24/7, without slowing down to a tenth of the maximum speed during peak times, and it's cheaper than £25.60 a month).
Like I said, though, you need to live pretty close to the exchange.
One lucky friend has an 18Mbps sync (on BE) and gets about 15Mbps throughput available 24/7.

If I had a 20Mbps sync with BE, I wouldn't be changing to Infinity, because it's quite clear that during waking hours a 20Mbps BE ADSL2+ connection will be faster than a 40Mbps BT Infinity connection (and will probably have a lower ping figure, given some of the 52ms speed tests posted on here from Infinity customers).

I'm going with Infinity, which has an 18 month contract period (so obviously BT need to force their customers to stay, rather than giving such a good product they'd never want to leave anyway) because I think that's about how long it will take BE to get even close to a roll-out.

As for the people who say you can't use bit torrent on Infinity; maybe their definition of "can't use" actually is "runs at one tenth of the maximum speed".

What you appear to be saying (and I get it that you're a fan of BT - nothing wrong with that) is it's worth going for Infinity and paying a premium price simply because the service speeds up by the time you get to 11pm.

As for a "better deal"; some may have the opinion that paying more, say around £40 instead of £28 (I say £28 because BT's web-site gives the clear impression the £25.60 package is for people who already have BT internet) for a product which doesn't slow down to a tenth of the maximum speed, may actually be a better deal.

"Value for money" and "better deal" don't automatically mean "cheapest", I learnt that from a very early age (unlike most British people, who think "value" and "better deal" are just other ways of saying "cheap" - we are, after all, a country which bought into the "Amstrad" version of hi-fi ).
Let's face it, we don't seem to get many non-Infinity FTTC users on here stating their peak time download speed is half that of ADSL1 wink, and most of those non-Infinity FTTC users are paying £30 to £50 a month.

Fortunately I don't touch torrents with a ten foot pole, so if that's all which slows down on Infinity, I won't be affected.

Ade

ADSL2+ with BE
DL Sync around 4.8Mbps
UL Sync 1088kbps

DG834GT with DGTeam firmware

Edited by adebov (Sun 07-Aug-11 00:18:51)

Standard User RandomJointer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 07-Aug-11 00:24:00
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Re: Well now I've gone and done it!


[re: adebov] [link to this post]
 
>>Fortunately I don't touch torrents with a ten foot pole, so if that's all which slows down on Infinity, I won't be affected.


You won't be affected.

BT throttle torrents which allows them to have a compelling price point and they are 'unlimited'.

FTTC providers that do not throttle p2p are expensive and have download limits.

That is all.

Welcome to the light side. smile


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Standard User orly
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 07-Aug-11 00:32:40
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Re: Well now I've gone and done it!


[re: adebov] [link to this post]
 
I guess it depends on what you're using it for.

Be will give you 24mbit down and 1.3mbit up for £22. If you want 2.5mbit up it's £27 (more expensive than BT's 40/10 product). I don't regard either as a better deal. Both on 12 month terms. If a service is pants from the get go it's not exactly much consolation if you have to suffer it for a year or a year and a half if we're being honest. We're in month 13 with Infinity and won't be moving anywhere after the contract runs out.

No one is forcing you to use Infinity - least of all BT. You picked the service and signed up yourself so it's a bit strange to gripe about the contract or any other failing you perceive.

I'm guessing you've perused the spreadsheet of providers I helped compile and noticed the total cost is pretty low compared to others. Stuff like the free equipment and free setup is probably part of the reason BT go for the longer contract.

Today I've been playing Modern Warfare 2 on Steam. Because of the 8mbit upload I tend to be made the host (essentially meaning I have the best connection in the game). Just a few moments ago there were 2 HD iplayer streams going without a blip. As you saw earlier on the torrent download was flying (you can do your own search here and find plenty of commentators saying this is actually impossible on BT!). Used newsgroups earlier and got the full 2.5MB/s for my connection too. Pings for me are about 23ms to the BBC site from here in N.Ireland.

Short of a static IP address there's basically nothing else you could ask for.

I can guarantee that when you get it installed you'll be delighted.

---
Click here to see Comparison of FTTC ISPs
Which FTTC ISP do you use?

BT Infinity 8th July 2010
(NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
25.5mbit down / 7.6mbit up
Standard User adebov
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 07-Aug-11 00:40:15
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Re: Well now I've gone and done it!


[re: RandomJointer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RandomJointer:
You won't be affected.

That's what I'm hoping.

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:
BT throttle torrents which allows them to have a compelling price point and they are 'unlimited'.

A wise move (given how torrents can suck bandwidth (up and down).
Unfortunately the poster who says he's happy with 50% of ADSL1 speed (over his Infinity connection) hasn't really quoted speeds for other applications.

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:
FTTC providers that do not throttle p2p are expensive and have download limits.

Which is precisely why I'm giving Infinity a chance.
It is possible to get un-metered off-peak products, but to get one which starts at a reasonable time (e.g. 8pm) and has sufficient usage prior to that (which allows normal internet use) is somewhere around £12/month more than BT.
I strongly considered alternatives but went for Infinity because I figure as one of the first (in town) at least the local BT network will take a while to get swamped!

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:
Welcome to the light side. smile

I haven't quite given up on the dark side yet (my BE connection will stay until I'm happy with Infinity), although it remains to be seen how ADSL2+ over a stupidly long cable length (about twice as far as the actual distance to the exchange) will be affected by a high-power vDSL signal travelling down another pair in the same multi-core!
When I'm happy with Infinity, the BE will get cancelled.
BT's free line install offer was just icing on the cake, because it gives me chance to ditch a phone number I've had for 22 years, and I've become tired of the stupid junk calls I get (and the TPS is next to useless - so a nice new ex-directory number may solve that, unless I inherit one which is on the books of even more loft insulation companies).

Ade

ADSL2+ with BE
DL Sync around 4.8Mbps
UL Sync 1088kbps

DG834GT with DGTeam firmware
Standard User adebov
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 07-Aug-11 00:56:09
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Re: Well now I've gone and done it!


[re: orly] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by orly:
Be will give you 24mbit down and 1.3mbit up for £22. If you want 2.5mbit up it's £27 (more expensive than BT's 40/10 product). I don't regard either as a better deal. Both on 12 month terms.

I pay £18.26 a month for upto 24Mbps (unfortunately I'm too far away to get more than about 5Mbps) on a three month contract (although I'm on a zero month contract now) with a free static IP (so, for me, Infinity is a premium price product - so it sure as heck better be able to provide consistantly faster downloads).


In reply to a post by orly:
so it's a bit strange to gripe about the contract or any other failing you perceive.

My only gripe is that if your "acceptable" 3.8Mbps speed is typical for applications other than torrents. You've yet to advise if it's just torrents which operate at low speeds (all I have to go on, from you as a source, is your snapshot of "acceptable" 3.8Mbps download speeds).


In reply to a post by orly:
I'm guessing you've perused the spreadsheet of providers I helped compile and noticed the total cost is pretty low compared to others.

No; because I'm smart enough to find out information for myself.


In reply to a post by orly:
Stuff like the free equipment and free setup is probably part of the reason BT go for the longer contract.

Might be good for some.
For others; the "free" bolt-ons are just loads of stuff which costs BT very little and made out to be worth far more.
BT home hub "worth £90"....Yeah, right. Never in my days have I paid £90 for what is basically a wireless router.
All the other stuff costs BT virtually nothing.
It's the actual product I'm interested in and not the gaudy trinkets BT lavish upon us.

It's a shame BT don't do what Plusnet offered (a lower price if you don't want all their junk).


In reply to a post by orly:
Used newsgroups earlier and got the full 2.5MB/s for my connection too. Pings for me are about 23ms to the BBC site from here in N.Ireland.

Promising news; just a shame you couldn't have said that earlier (maybe in response to my first comment that I don't think 3.8Mbps is acceptable for a 40Mbps product) and saved us all this nonsense tongue.


In reply to a post by orly:
Short of a static IP address there's basically nothing else you could ask for.

That is a big loss (considering it's free with my £18 BE product).
Such a shame BT don't even offer it as an option frown (it kind of proves their customer will tend to be a purely domestic user).

Ade

ADSL2+ with BE
DL Sync around 4.8Mbps
UL Sync 1088kbps

DG834GT with DGTeam firmware

Edited by adebov (Sun 07-Aug-11 00:57:48)

Standard User orly
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 07-Aug-11 02:02:44
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Re: Well now I've gone and done it!


[re: adebov] [link to this post]
 
I'm just quoting what Be are actually selling on their homepage. Doesn't seem to be a compelling offering to me.

Torrents sometimes run slower and sometimes run full speed. That is partly down to BT and partly down to the nature of how torrents are distributed. You're relying on good seeds and having your own client set up right. As I've demonstrated it's perfectly possible to have max'ed out torrent downloading using BT. Same for newsgroups. Started a test download of fedora (which I believe is free so hopefully no laws broken) and it was running full speed before I stopped it: http://i.imgur.com/ilLNB.jpg

Pinging BBC.co.uk:
Ping statistics for 212.58.244.67:
Packets: Sent = 40, Received = 40, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 21ms, Maximum = 27ms, Average = 22ms

I'll be happy to test any application or use (if I can) and report the results to you. Bearing in mind my connection is essentially half speed due to comedy cabling in this part of the world.

And the products are for domestic users. You can go for the Business products if you want the static IP. Personally I prefer the dynamic one so it makes no odds to me. It's available if you want it but the price isn't worth it in my view.

---
Click here to see Comparison of FTTC ISPs
Which FTTC ISP do you use?

BT Infinity 8th July 2010
(NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
25.5mbit down / 7.6mbit up

Edited by orly (Sun 07-Aug-11 02:04:36)

Standard User gt94sss2
(experienced) Sun 07-Aug-11 08:41:34
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Re: Well now I've gone and done it!


[re: orly] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by orly:
600m (approx) to cabinet
25.5mbit down / 7.6mbit up


What speed did the ADSL checker estimate for your line?

Regards
Sunil
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Sun 07-Aug-11 08:50:42
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Re: Well now I've gone and done it!


[re: gt94sss2] [link to this post]
 
Been down this route before with Orly, as someone who actually works with this stuff, if he only gets 25 meg sync @ 600m something don't look right.

My line, 566m, 40/10. Longest I have seen full sync on 890m (new-ish 0.5 copper). Punter a few weeks ago had to take the sub 15 route, 1.2K d-side, 35meg sync. There is no hard and fast rule to say what you'll get, but the 25 at 600m don't seem right.

Standard User adebov
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 07-Aug-11 10:56:18
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Re: Well now I've gone and done it!


[re: orly] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by orly:
You can go for the Business products if you want the static IP.

Yes; but then it will be ADSL2+ (BT don't appear to offer FTTC to business customers - which might explain why they don't tend to upgrade cabs on industrial estates), cost £43 a month (if you want the shortest possible contract term - still 12 months), and an extra £5 a month for a static IP.
This makes BT Business broadband £48 compared to BE @ £22 (which is on a 3 month contract) - note existing BE customers can still be paying £18 a month.

So; no, I can't go 'business products' if I want to add a static IP to Bt's FTTC offering - simply because it's not available (I guess we'd have both known that if either of us had checked your comparison table tongue).

Ade

ADSL2+ with BE
DL Sync around 4.8Mbps
UL Sync 1088kbps

DG834GT with DGTeam firmware
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