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Standard User Adsl24
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 09-Sep-11 09:33:05
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Re: Well Ive gone and done it too - Goodbye O2, welcome infi


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Not aimed at RobertoS directly, but more of a general conclusion to all...

In the WBC DLM FAQ document we have, it states:

"Does DLM run on all WBC lines?

Yes. The BT Wholesale variant of DLM runs on ADSL 1 and ADSL2+ WBC Lines. FTTX services falls within the Openreach DLM domain."

In the FTTC Handbook (dated January 2011) id doesn't give out DLM specifics at all, but says:

Following installation of service, the line will be allowed to stabilise during the first 10 days after provision and a Fault Threshold Rate (FTR) will be set at 5 Mbit/s downstream for services provided at up to 15 Mbit/s downstream or 15 Mbit/s downstream for services provided at greater than 15 Mbit/s downstream.


Also:

Dynamic Line Management (DLM) will be employed to manage line performance to maintain a target balance of speed and stability and is based on amending key variables of a line, specifically: Impulse Noise Protection Capping Interleaving (Please note - there is no order option to remove this). By altering these individual characteristics the line performance is adjusted to meet target stability. The Stability Options offered by BT Wholesale have been mapped to align to the DLM policy options that BT Openreach provide. (Please see below re Maintaining Line Stability)

Line stability is crucial to service quality and to the End User experience and WBC Service provides WBC Customers with more flexibility and more control. WBC Customers can increase or decrease line stability by sacrificing or gaining speed.
WBC Customers and Reseller Customers can choose appropriate line stability profiles that are related to the different needs of End User applications.
WBC Customers and Reseller Customers can change the stability option online as necessary to meet their End Users‟ changing requirements.

Standard
Allows a CP to offer a higher line rate, by allowing the line to have a lower stability target than the Stable Option provides.

Stable
This setting - aims to keep the line working with only a few errored seconds and retrains each day.

Super Stable
This option allows CPs to offer a higher level of stability by using increased error protection. The line will work at a lower speed than the Stable option and at times it may give rise to increased latency.

Note Signal to Noise ratio will be set at 6dB for all DLM policies - applies to FTTC only as I know it doesn't do that on WBC.

which are the same as on ADSL I guess although they may work differently.

No mention of Interleaving anywhere although I do know it can be on or off.

So there is no 100% clarification about the initial training. I would take the SIN as being correct as this is what specification the product conforms to.

James
ADSL24 Broadband
http://adsl24.co.uk
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 09-Sep-11 09:36:10
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Re: Well Ive gone and done it too - Goodbye O2, welcome infi


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Anonymous:
Bad news this morning ...

Currently on 38717 / 10000. I expect if the noise gets any worse, it will be dropping down a peg or two. Is this right? Any advice on what else I can do?
You've done all the right things and all you can do. Just wait and see.

Audible noise doesn't necessarily mean there is noise in the VDSL2 spectrum. Think about it the other way - fixing audible noise stands a good chance of correcting broadband noise, just because there is a fault on the line that could also be causing broadband noise, but we know you can have broadband noise without any audible. The converse is also true.

The cause could even be between the old cabinet and the exchange, where my line is very dodgy, and that seems to get filtered out at the cabinets.

That was one of the reasons I switched to FTTC which I don't really need, as my ADSL2+ service frequently got destroyed by it, and several engineers in the area have said finding decent connections is difficult. Mine having been switched to another (speed inferior) pair in the past when it failed completely.

On FTTC there is no broadband effect when the phone goes odd. You could very well be in the same position.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 09-Sep-11 10:03:26
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Re: Well Ive gone and done it too - Goodbye O2, welcome infi


[re: Adsl24] [link to this post]
 
That's brilliant James, thanks smile.

Plenty to chew over and interpret, but my initial reaction is that BT Wholesale has tweaked their own DLM to run on top of the Openreach one, with two main things apparent from those quotes:-

1) They retain a 10-day period after which they set the FTR, note no MSR, this being for the purpose of their existing fault reporting systems, but that this is nothing whatsoever to do with the line rate itself being controlled at the noise margin or IP Profile level, which is within the OR DLM. That sounds perfectly reasonable;

2) Similarly, for ISP control they have "mapped" line setting facilities to pass through to the actual ones operating within the Openreach systems. That makes good sense, as otherwise there would be options present but not available.

It seems to me that the WBC DLM therefore doesn't have any active role, and the 10-day period which I now accept does exist on FTTC is in fact irrelevant to anything. It's just a convenience to simplify the mods to cater for FTTC whilst maintaining it for ADSLx.

In particular, the "line will be allowed to stabilise during the first 10 days " is a mere hangover wording, as this DLM takes no action whatsoever. Any line control adjustments occur within the Openreach DLM as quoted in earlier posts. It just means the FTR is set to the predetermined value at the end of it rather than immediately after installation, simply because that's the way FTR setting is coded in for ADSLx.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.


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Anonymous
(Unregistered)Fri 09-Sep-11 10:12:40
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Re: Well Ive gone and done it too - Goodbye O2, welcome infi


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the info Robertos and James.

I'll report back when I hear back from them.

Cheers.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Sat 10-Sep-11 11:16:10
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Re: Well Ive gone and done it too - Goodbye O2, welcome infi


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
The latest on the caller ID issue is technical support say they have removed the service from the line yesterday and will activate it again by Monday. TBH, I dont think they know what is really up with it as they sound really stumped every time I speak to someone about it.

Ive also noticed the throughput on the infinity side of things to be on the low side in my opinion. On average its hitting about 33 meg on the 38717 /10000 profile - Im not too sure what to expect if im honest. Perhaps I need to watch it over the coming days. What I do notice though is a slight lag when pulling up webpages. This was never there before when I was on O2.

I'll update on monday on any progress.

Cheers/.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Sat 10-Sep-11 11:19:07
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Re: Well Ive gone and done it too - Goodbye O2, welcome infi


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Also, has anyone noticed the new speedtest available on speedtest.bt.com?

Theres a beta option now. Any thoughts?
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 10-Sep-11 15:58:37
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Re: Well Ive gone and done it too - Goodbye O2, welcome infi


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Anonymous:
Also, has anyone noticed the new speedtest available on speedtest.bt.com?

Theres a beta option now. Any thoughts?
That's interesting. Back-to-back tests it gives 3Mbps or so more than the old one. Downloads a lot less data.

A lot easier to use, but I hope it is just a test of concept. If we lose the IP Profile info it will be a retrograde step in my opinion. Although if the IP Profile is going to track the sync rapidly on all connections, as it is now doing on some, I don't suppose it matters too much.

I think you should start a new thread in General Broadband about it. There's quite a thread about it already in BT Wholesale Implementation forum.

PS - it's speedtester.bt.com.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 10-Sep-11 16:01:21)

Standard User adebov
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 11-Sep-11 21:53:32
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Re: Well Ive gone and done it too - Goodbye O2, welcome infi


[re: Garyilka] [link to this post]
 
I also have the total broadband package (with, allegedly, three free calling features - one of which can be caller ID).
Unfortunately I wasn't aware you have to order these at the time of placing your phone line order.
Thus; I have no features and (apparently) can't have them until the contract period expires!

What possible harm could come from BT actually giving us some customer service (for once) and enabling our three FREE calling features?

Starting to remember why I dumped BT all those years ago.

EDIT: I remember saying (to Orly) a little while ago, you get what you pay for!
Don't ever remember having this much trouble asking for caller ID and 1571 answer phone with Sky (in fact, I seem to remember being able to order these online).
BT's stupid online systems won't let me select any of my three free calling features.
Their website even says
BT Answer 1571 voicemail and other Calling Features can be added to your line
before it helpfully says "We're sorry...
We have noticed you already have one of our great package deals." (when selecting the "already with BT? - Change your calling features" option).
What; so as I'm already on a plan which has three free features (which are not yet enabled) I can't have any?
If it's such a "great package deal" why the Hell can't I have any calling features on it?

Ade

vDSL2 FTTC Infinity with BT
DL Sync 40Mbps
UL Sync 10Mbps

Edited by adebov (Sun 11-Sep-11 22:00:44)

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