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Standard User mikecrawford80
(regular) Wed 07-Dec-11 11:24:04
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Re: SNRM & Error levels


[re: Bald_Eagle1] [link to this post]
 
Hi Bald_Eagle1,

a) Not certain, but we bought house from new so know how the estate and roads were built. Have plotted distance from cab to house on Google earth and also get a similar result from car tripometer.

b) Think the same as you, pleased that CRC's are zero, can only assume I have a good line.

c) Think US SNRM is higher for me cos I'm on the package capped at 2M upload with Plusnet.

d) Just a couple of connection issues (like PN setting speed down to 17M, I had a profile drop from my original 32, down to about 19, then its stabilised now at 27). But I raised cases, then chased on Twitter and got pretty good responses, so far nothing for me to gripe about with PN support and their offerings (although 120GB on Extra could do with a wee uplift (but I'm sure that will come at some point).

I did not get a pbParams at 8c (I think I flashed my modem after I was put on 17a), but here's my 17 values;

# xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 6209 Kbps, Downstream rate = 26616 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 1999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 27399 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (868,1207) (1972,2783)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1963) (2792,3939)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (868,1207) (1972,2783)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1963)
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate: 6209 kbps 26616 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power: - 1.8 dBm 12.5 dBm
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 7.6 39.2 57.6 N/A 18.6 48.5 69.2
Signal Attenuation(dB): 12.1 38.4 N/A N/A 18.6 48.5 N/A
SNR Margin(dB): 15.3 15.1 N/A N/A 5.4 5.4 N/A
TX Power(dBm): -3.9 -5.6 -128.0 N/A 10.6 7.8 N/A


I like your Text boxes, but can't see how you do them?

Plusnet Extra Fibre
September 2011 Speedtest ...

Edited by mikecrawford80 (Wed 07-Dec-11 11:25:03)

Standard User Bald_Eagle1
(regular) Wed 07-Dec-11 11:27:01
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Re: SNRM & Error levels


[re: Bald_Eagle1] [link to this post]
 
Hi All,

If it is of any interest to Windows only users, I will shortly be releasing some Windows batch files that enable automated generation of HG612 modem logs & graphs (no more need to manually log in to PuTTy with username & password).

Also, apart from downloading a few free Windows versions of Linux-type utilities & the graph generating program, there will be no need to install a Linux shell program to run them.

FYI, these are just some of the graphs for the latest 24 days of my own connection. You should be able to clearly see the state of my SNRM, re-syncs, & error levels prior to the engineer's visit 15th November, & its stability, but still quite high error levels since:-

24 day connection graphs

It was only these stats graphs that convinced my ISP to arrange yet another engineer to look at my connection.
Prior to me providing these (& other types of graphs), they were convinced that my connection was stable, & as good as it ever could be.

When fully tested/finally tweaked, the Windows batch files will be released into the same location as the current Linux scripts.

Due to the intentional "secrecy" of the locked modems, I'm sure that BT & ISPs won't really appreciate some users seeing the evidence of just how poor their connections are, but by the same token, some of us users don't appreciate being fobbed off with "Your line tests as LTOK, therefore no action is necessary" responses.

Paul.
Standard User Bald_Eagle1
(regular) Wed 07-Dec-11 12:03:16
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Re: SNRM & Error levels


[re: mikecrawford80] [link to this post]
 
Hi mikecrawford80,

Thanks for that info.
It's quite surprising though.

Your attenuation levels are a bit lower than mine (suggesting a "better" connection), yet your sync & attainable rates are lower than mine.

I see your SNRM levels are much higher though, which MAY suggest your connection is being speed capped by Plusnet and/or BT (intentionally or not).
That's understandable for the US being capped at 2 Mb, but it doesn't really explain the high SNRM level for your DS.

I am aware of an ongoing Plusnet investigation into how successful (or not) their own profiling system is in actual operation. Some users have been moved back up to a Plusnet profile of 37 Mb, & their actual sync & download speeds have suffered as a consequence.
Mine is 37 Mb, but I achieve nowhere near that.
I am actually achieving a similar DS sync rate to you, but your Plusnet profile appears to be 10 Mb lower than mine.

I also see that neither of us achieve anything at all from the highest frequency band plan at Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan, although it is "discovered" at Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan.

Actual bits loaded data for the higher frequency DS band (D3) can be seen in graphs for users with faster connections.
Our attenuation appears too high for us to achieve anything in that band (Signal Attenuation being N/A).

I agree that Plusnet are a pretty good ISP, but it IS very much dependant on users having to provide the "evidence" that Plusnet's own systems do not report.

Just for ease of viewing, I include both your & my pbParams data together.
I have only just sussed how to put it in a text box myself.

It works for me if I start of by typing "[c o d e]" then pasting in the text, & finishing it off with "[/ c o d e]" (omitting the spaces & speech marks, but retaining the square brackets).

Text
1
23
45
67
89
1011
1213
1415
1617
1819
2021
2223
2425
2627
2829
3031
3233
3435
3637
3839
4041
4243
4445
4647
4849
5051
mikecrawford80:-
 # xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY statusStatus: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0Max: Upstream rate = 6209 Kbps, Downstream rate = 26616 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 1999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 27399 Kbps 
Discovery Phase (Initial) Band PlanUS: (0,95) (868,1207) (1972,2783)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1963) (2792,3939)Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (868,1207) (1972,2783)DS: (32,859) (1216,1963)
VDSL Port Details Upstream DownstreamAttainable Net Data Rate: 6209 kbps 26616 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power: - 1.8 dBm 12.5 dBm============================================================================
VDSL Band Status        U0      U1      U2      U3      D1      D2      D3Line Attenuation(dB):   7.6     39.2    57.6    N/A     18.6    48.5    69.2
Signal Attenuation(dB): 12.1    38.4    N/A     N/A     18.6    48.5    N/ASNR Margin(dB):         15.3    15.1    N/A     N/A     5.4     5.4     N/A
TX Power(dBm):          -3.9    -5.6    -128.0  N/A     10.6    7.8     N/A 
  
Bald_Eagle1:- 
# xdslcmd info --pbParams xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 0
Max:    Upstream rate = 5961 Kbps, Downstream rate = 31052 KbpsPath:   0, Upstream rate = 5679 Kbps, Downstream rate = 27942 Kbps
 Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (868,1207) (1972,2783) DS: (32,859) (1216,1963) (2792,3939) 
Medley Phase (Final) Band PlanUS: (0,95) (868,1207) 
DS: (32,859) (1216,1963)        VDSL Port Details       Upstream        Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:       5961 kbps         31052 kbpsActual Aggregate Tx Power:        6.3 dBm          12.1 dBm
============================================================================  VDSL Band Status        U0      U1      U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):  8.2     53.5    64.1     N/A    21.9    63.8    70.0   Signal Attenuation(dB):  14.2    52.2     N/A     N/A    21.9    63.8     N/A   
        SNR Margin(dB):  6.6     6.8      N/A     N/A    4.8     4.8      N/A            TX Power(dBm): -4.4     5.9      N/A     N/A    11.1    5.3      N/A



Paul

EDIT:
I just realised that I mis-read your stats as I can see that your DS SNRM is not that much higher than mine after all.


http://www.speedtest.net/result/1634854999.png

Edited by Bald_Eagle1 (Wed 07-Dec-11 12:27:01)


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Standard User reddev86
(regular) Wed 07-Dec-11 12:23:10
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Re: SNRM & Error levels


[re: Bald_Eagle1] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Bald_Eagle1:
I see your SNRM levels are much higher though, which MAY suggest your connection is being speed capped by Plusnet and/or BT (intentionally or not).
That's understandable for the US being capped at 2 Mb, but it doesn't really explain the high SNRM level for your DS.


Maybe i've read his stats wrong, but I see a SNRM of 5.4dB for his DS, which is close enough to the target margin of 6dB. His US SNRM is high because it is capped to 2Meg sync on Plusnet, when attainable is 6meg. Both my US and DS SNRMs are very high, because upload sync is capped to 2meg, and download is still capped to the 40, when my attainable is around 10 meg up and 55 down.

Edit: I see you discovered your error tongue

In reply to a post by Bald_Eagle1:
I am aware of an ongoing Plusnet investigation into how successful (or not) their own profiling system is in actual operation. Some users have been moved back up to a Plusnet profile of 37 Mb, & their actual sync & download speeds have suffered as a consequence.


I am one of those people. My IP profile is 38717, syncing at the full 39999k. Plusnet profile is 37Meg. I don't know why they use 37meg, when i've seen plenty of people (including myself) getting more than that on the 38717 profile.

My throughput is actually closer to 34.5Meg, yet when my PN profile was incorrect, I achieved 37.5Meg constantly. I think they are still investigating the issue.

FTTC via Plusnet Fibre Extra Pro
DS: 39999 US: capped to 2000
NILN exchange - 550m from cabinet
Netgear WNR1000

Edited by reddev86 (Wed 07-Dec-11 12:24:09)

Standard User Bald_Eagle1
(regular) Wed 07-Dec-11 12:41:28
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Re: SNRM & Error levels


[re: reddev86] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by reddev86:
Edit: I see you discovered your error tongue


Speaking of errors:-

"As a comparison, would you mind posting the DSL Up time, SNRM, & error levels as reported for your own connections, along with an estimation of your D-side line length?"

I'm building up a mini database of Errors vs Connection up time, SNRM & line length stats.
It may be a complete waste of time, although it COULD just be useful for me (& others) in prompting investigations via BT and/or ISPs, using data they apparently don't otherwise see.


Paul.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 07-Dec-11 12:59:36
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Re: SNRM & Error levels


[re: Bald_Eagle1] [link to this post]
 
It works for me if I start of by typing "[c o d e]" then pasting in the text, & finishing it off with "[/ c o d e]" (omitting the spaces & speech marks, but retaining the square brackets).
I use "pre" as I discovered it before "code".

Tip to Mike smile. Any posting method you don't know how it is done, if you click the Quote button of the post containing it you get to see what was actually typed to achieve it smile. More usefully, that is also the way to copy a link from a post, as the full link is there whereas the visible bit in the post itself is a truncated "text" for the link so doesn't work.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User mikecrawford80
(regular) Wed 07-Dec-11 13:35:14
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Re: SNRM & Error levels


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Ahh, thanks for the tips, you're never to old to learn something every day smile

Plusnet Extra Fibre
September 2011 Speedtest ...
Standard User griff_90
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 07-Dec-11 18:46:16
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Re: SNRM & Error levels


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
That's an invalid comparison with another line that has massive noise issues, witnessed by:
DS SNRM = 22.4 dB


The SNR isn't high because of "massive noise issues" it's high because that line is now on 17a and the attainable rate has increased while the actual line rate remains capped at 40Mbps. Obviously the SNR is going to increase as a result.

My own SNR margin has gone from 6.4dB on 8c to 22.7dB on 17a. Once the 80/20 product launches (and the artificial 40Mbps rate is lifted) then line rates will increase and the SNRM will decrease accordingly.

Edited by griff_90 (Wed 07-Dec-11 18:50:59)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 07-Dec-11 23:43:35
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Re: SNRM & Error levels


[re: griff_90] [link to this post]
 
If you scroll back you will see that I subsequently realised this fact once I had been given the relevant data.

GIGO grin!

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Wed 07-Dec-11 23:59:43
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Re: SNRM & Error levels


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
It should be obvious the SNR will be high when the signal is high, and low when the noise is high.



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