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Standard User TimLaduk
(newbie) Tue 03-Jan-12 13:15:45
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Unlocking the HG612 before install ?


[link to this post]
 
Just wondering is their any reason why I can not unlock my hg612 before the install I don`t want to switch it off during the training phase and me being the geek I am would look to look at the stats when its installed...
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 03-Jan-12 14:35:32
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Re: Unlocking the HG612 before install ?


[re: TimLaduk] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TimLaduk:
Just wondering is their any reason why I can not unlock my hg612 before the install I don`t want to switch it off during the training phase and me being the geek I am would look to look at the stats when its installed...
It isn't your HG612, and it's an engineer install. The unlocking in any case almost certainly invalidates the warranty on it, if detected, and I doubt if the engineer would cooperate anyway.

If you ask him nicely he should have the sync, noise margin and attenuation figures on his JDSU. For mine it showed 39999/10000, NM 7.3dB; Att 17.7dB and cable length approx 0.6km.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User nelix01
(committed) Tue 03-Jan-12 17:39:45
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Re: Unlocking the HG612 before install ?


[re: TimLaduk] [link to this post]
 
I thought that the modem was not supplied by the ISP but was brought by the Engineer during the install?


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 03-Jan-12 18:07:59
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Re: Unlocking the HG612 before install ?


[re: TimLaduk] [link to this post]
 
And where does it state that you SHOULD NOT switch off the modem during the training period?

Lots of myths, and people saying dont switch off/on too often, being interpreted as NEVER switch off.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User kasg
(committed) Tue 03-Jan-12 18:08:17
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Re: Unlocking the HG612 before install ?


[re: nelix01] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by nelix01:
I thought that the modem was not supplied by the ISP but was brought by the Engineer during the install?
Indeed, as per post by RobertoS!

Kevin

plusnet Value Fibre
My Broadband Speed Test
Using OpenDNS
Standard User nelix01
(committed) Tue 03-Jan-12 18:12:12
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Re: Unlocking the HG612 before install ?


[re: kasg] [link to this post]
 
I really should pay more attention in class!!

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 03-Jan-12 18:18:51
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Re: Unlocking the HG612 before install ?


[re: TimLaduk] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TimLaduk:
I don`t want to switch it off during the training phase and me being the geek I am would look to look at the stats when its installed...
Just seen MrSaffron pick up on this. If you think there is a 10-day training period, or anyone says there is, then there isn't. It's more like 1-2 days, if that.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User TimLaduk
(newbie) Tue 03-Jan-12 18:23:29
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Re: Unlocking the HG612 before install ?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
just going of what it says on the checker..

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports a fibre technology with an estimated WBC FTTC Broadband where consumers have received downstream line speed of 31.7Mbps and upstream line speed of 12.3Mbps.

The actual stable line speed supportable will be determined during the first 10 days of use. This speed may change over time, to ensure line stability is maintained.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 03-Jan-12 18:41:00
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Re: Unlocking the HG612 before install ?


[re: TimLaduk] [link to this post]
 
That's still there because of it's existence on ADSLx, and even then there is a lot of rubbish talked. MrSaffron's comment applies even more then on that. Have a read of what the 10-day training actually does, then bear in mind that is the BT Wholesale DLM one. On FTTC it isn't BT Wholesale DLM, it is Openreach, and is totally different. From the Openreach documentation
Dynamic Line Management (DLM) is employed in GEA-FTTC. DLM constantly
manages lines to maintain a target stability. It does this for as long as the product
exists.
At provision, the line is put on wide open profiles, allowing downstream line speeds
of up to 40Mbit/s, and upstream line speeds of up to 2Mbit/s or 10Mbit/s depending
on the upstream product option selected.
On the first day of operation, DLM will intervene if severe instability is detected.
Otherwise, DLM will wait until the day after provision before intervening, provided
that the line has been trained up for at least 15 minutes during the preceding day.
If DLM intervenes it will set a capped profile with a maximum rate and a minimum
rate, where the minimum rate is set at approximately half of the maximum rate. The
purpose of the minimum rate is to ensure that the line does not train at a rate which is
significantly below the level the line should be able to achieve. If this happened, then
the line is likely to remain at a very low rate till a re-train is forced by the user
powering off the Active NTE.


My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User TimLaduk
(newbie) Tue 03-Jan-12 19:41:46
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Re: Unlocking the HG612 before install ?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
gotcha thanks smile makes sense
Standard User Alnath
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 04-Jan-12 12:19:06
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Re: Unlocking the HG612 before install ?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Ive has 5 power cuts since i had infinity installed and 3 of them were in rapid succession, plus the times it was off to unlock the modem and it made naff all difference, same sync, same attainable rate and same ping. Like you say people seem prettified to go near the power switch in case a black hole opens up or something.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 04-Jan-12 18:46:28
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Re: Unlocking the HG612 before install ?


[re: Alnath] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alnath:
Ive has 5 power cuts since i had infinity installed and 3 of them were in rapid succession, plus the times it was off to unlock the modem and it made naff all difference, same sync, same attainable rate and same ping. Like you say people seem prettified to go near the power switch in case a black hole opens up or something.
Ooooo tongue. Lipstick and makeup? smile

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User Alnath
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 05-Jan-12 10:31:43
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Re: Unlocking the HG612 before install ?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Ill leave my typo in so you dont look like you are randomly babbling wink
Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Sun 08-Jan-12 21:04:51
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Re: Unlocking the HG612 before install ?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
If this happened, then
the line is likely to remain at a very low rate till a re-train is forced by the user
powering off the Active NTE.

Does this mean that an end user can force a complete retrain (just like an ISP or BT engineer can request) just by unplugging the modem? If so, for how long must it remain disconnected?

TIA

DrT

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 08-Jan-12 21:43:59
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Re: Unlocking the HG612 before install ?


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
It is just the same as existing ADSL modems remaining at a low rate until retrained manually, i.e. ADSL modems if they have a large amount of spare noise margin do not automatically resync to eat this up, they wait for you or a power glitch to start this process off.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 09-Jan-12 22:52:55
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Re: Unlocking the HG612 before install ?


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by DrTeeth:
If this happened, then
the line is likely to remain at a very low rate till a re-train is forced by the user
powering off the Active NTE.

Does this mean that an end user can force a complete retrain (just like an ISP or BT engineer can request) just by unplugging the modem? If so, for how long must it remain disconnected?
Confusion easily arises from the poor choice of words by someone in BT in the past, with the same being an ongoing problem - not just in respect of line training.

Whenever a modem communicates with another one, since data transmission was invented, the initial process of negotiation they carry out by sending various signals back and forth, to determine the optimum rate at which to set up the link, is called "training". That's what the poster is talking about.

Unfortunately when BT Wholesale introduced IPStream and related/similar products they used the word "training" to refer to a 10-day period during which the system's parameters for noise margin and a few other things were established, though in practice these are/were established on most lines during the first 75 minutes, and the rest of the 10 days merely records the lowest sync speed in that period. That becomes the MSR, and the FTR is 80% of the MSR.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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