Fibre Choice - BT Infinity or Virgin?

My current talktalk service isn't good, and seems to be getting worse. We now have BT Infinity available, and Virgin also have fibre running past our house.

Both sound attractive compared to what we suffer at present (tt even fails on iplayer sometimes!) - but both have their critics on this and other forums.

I don't want to pay loads of £s, and I don't want cable TV. Just decent broadband and a landline phone.

Any guidance appreciated!

BT Infinity

BT Infinity

Thanks for the straightforward answers, any chance of telling me why infinity?

I had thought that fibre all the way to my house was a good idea, although I was put off a bit by the installation implications.

Virgin is nice in theory but have big congestion problems at peak times (thats a main thing i hear) BT currently does not suffer from that
also there upload speeds are not very good compared to BT

Is it FTTC or FTTP BT infinity available to you?

According to their Indian help line, FTTC, and I will "get a max speed of 18.6Mb download 5.0Mb upload per second".

Also note that is not just BT who provide Fibre to the Cabinet services.

Their "Infinity" is just a name for Openreach's FTTC wholesale package, in the same way that we call our FTTC packages "Fibre 30" etc - see http://adsl24.co.uk/broadband/home/

It does bug me a bit that people only think BT do FTTC - but I guess that's how they've got away with their adverts saying "Infinity - only from BT" - which is very misleading, because Infinity is just a package name, nothing to do with the actual FTTC service which is "not only from BT". Hey ho

Edited by deleted (Tue 31-Jan-12 14:30:44)

Well like Virgin Cable & BT FTTC they both use copper to the property BT use the normal phone line virgins in separate.

so the installation is not much of a big deal just a new master socket few switchs at the cabinet and thats it really.

Edited by epyon (Tue 31-Jan-12 14:46:24)

Not misleading at all

Infinity (the package only available from BT) is correct

If they said Fibre to the cabinet only available from BT Retail then you would have a point.

Thanks for that, I've had a look at the link which was interesting.

BT seem to be the only ones advertising the FTTC service, wonder how the rest get business?

Of course I know that "Infinity" is only available from BT which I don't have an issue with. I guess its the context that makes it misleading.

They advertise about the super fast speeds and it demo's everything you can do with the service. Then at the end they "make it look like" its only available from BT by saying Infinity - only from BT, so people identify the entire service as the "infinity service" where it's really an FTTC service that is available via any ISP.

I know of at least 5 friends who viewed the advert not knowing the service can also be obtained from a non-BT provider.

Edited by deleted (Tue 31-Jan-12 14:42:10)

It's because only BT have the marketing budget to do so

My concern was that Virgin run a new cable to the property (I'd assumed fibre?) and then install a new master at the end of it. For my house this wouldn't be where the current (BT) master is, as that is nowhere near an outside wall, and it would all get a bit messy & inconvenient.

Nothing that couldn't be overcome, but a nuisance.

There advertising Infinity (package) saying only from BT is correct

You're point is invalid.

Virgin run Coax Copper to you're property which would probably come in the closet point of the property.

Don't always listen to the usual suspects m8 ..Virgin media is also worth looking at..

I don't suffer from any congestion and my 100Mb connection does what is meant to do 247..

The point is their method works because the OP thought he had to go with BT Infinity and did not know anyone else offered the FTTC service - no doubt from some "BT Infinity" advert he saw.

That's just my opinion right or wrong

.. and I had 50Mbps which was fine until they launched 100Mbps and then it went downhill fast. I downgraded to 10Mbps because that was all I could get most of the time anyway and am waiting for Infinity.

VM is fine until they sell it to a high usage user or two near you - once that happens forget it. Cable can provide the headline speeds but not the download capacity to back them up.

I have had both Virgin and BT Infinity running at the same time and I am glad I chose to stick with BT Infinity. The reason being is there was a lot of congestion at peak times with Virgin in my area which meant that latency took a hit which was noticable whilst playing online. My Infinity connection had a latency value of between 16ms-18ms during peak hours and there was no lag whatsoever. With Virgin I would reach figures of up to 50ms in the evening.

If latency is a factor in your decision I would be considering BT Infinity over Virgin Media.

Edited by maniac886 (Tue 31-Jan-12 18:07:04)

What no-one has done has check whether the poor service from TalkTalk is DSL based, or congestion based.

Have you looked at the DSL data for your line in the TalkTalk modem when it is running slow? if the Noise Margin is down in the 1 to 3dB region, then an off/on cycle of the router may actually help you out. The TalkTalk modems are very good at hanging on to low noise margins to the point where speeds are affected by errors.

Also try using different DNS servers on your computers.

If the modem reboots improve things, then consider the TalkTalk fibre boost, might be an easier path than having to go back to BT.

In reply to a post by epyon:

Not misleading at all

Infinity (the package only available from BT) is correct

If they said Fibre to the cabinet only available from BT Retail then you would have a point.

In the context of the adverts it is misleading. The implication is that "Superfast broadband" is only from BT.

What a great forum this is - many thanks for all the replies.

TT problems are congestion - all is fine at present, but evenings are awful. I have (just) looked at their fibre boost, but the pricing isn't clever (reasonable until you hit their cheap limit, which we flirt with despite the slow service).

Regarding Infinity advertising - yes it is clearly the package that they're advertising, but I still had the notion in my head that the fibre service was only available from BT.

Contrary to what I posted earlier (and what BT told me) it does appear that I can get FTTC or FTTP (I live in Exeter).

In reply to a post by 20minutes:

My concern was that Virgin run a new cable to the property (I'd assumed fibre?) and then install a new master at the end of it. For my house this wouldn't be where the current (BT) master is, as that is nowhere near an outside wall, and it would all get a bit messy & inconvenient.

Nothing that couldn't be overcome, but a nuisance.

Virgin cable is Fibre To The Node. The Node is a biggish cabinet, and is equivalent to the BT FTTC cabinet. Roughly the same size, and both make a humming noise.

From the node it is coax cable, like your TV aerial connection, to the smaller cabinets nearer to you, and also coax from there past your house. There is probably a patch in the pavement running from the main VM trench, and a small hole in the pavement next to your property that has the ends of wires for you at the bottom.

They pull those wires up and dig a shallow trench if necessary to get to the wall of your house, where they fit a junction box the size of a thick book. (A pre-television entertainment system). From the junction box they wire to pretty well anywhere, as I understand it, with wires round the outside of the house just like a BT line.

In reply to a post by 20minutes:

Contrary to what I posted earlier (and what BT told me) it does appear that I can get FTTC or FTTP (I live in Exeter).

I believe that is incorrect.

If you give us the postcode, (PM it if you don't want it public),and it can be checked against the latest BT data.

Roberto
Surprised me as well, but there was a list I came across giving my exchange as FTTC/P whereas most were just FTTC. My postcode is EX4 5ER.

Yours is FTTC from Cabinet 7, and I would expect it to be live, (Phase 5a). What does this checker say?

Tried that checker before, it doesn't recognise my number (presumably because I'm with TT?) but taking the postcode option it confirms FTTC is available.

In reply to a post by epyon:

Virgin run Coax Copper to you're property which would probably come in the closet point of the property.

Intriguing.

In reply to a post by djfunkdup:

Don't always listen to the usual suspects m8 ..Virgin media is also worth looking at..

I don't suffer from any congestion and my 100Mb connection does what is meant to do 247..

It certainly is if you are not in a congested area, its not just the "usual suspects" wide spread complaints about congestion and latency all over http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Gaming/bd-p/Gaming

Infinity. Too many congestion issues on the Virgin network.

Just so we're clear, Virgin offer "fibre" to the cabinet, then coax cable to the properly, they don't install fibre to your home.

Thanks everyone; I'm now a lot clearer about what Virgin do, and how they do it.

More inclined to go with FTTC with BT or one of the other providers. It is now just a matter of working out what I want, how much I'm willing to pay, and which provider to sign up with...

Neither - go with plusnet If BT is available then plusnet will be too I think. But you'll get much better customer service from Plusnet.

And if you have any specific questions about our ADSL24 Fibre packages I'm happy to advise.

Thanks

In reply to a post by 20minutes:

Thanks everyone; I'm now a lot clearer about what Virgin do, and how they do it.

More inclined to go with FTTC with BT or one of the other providers. It is now just a matter of working out what I want, how much I'm willing to pay, and which provider to sign up with...

See this list, and the summary spreadsheet by orly that is linked to on it.