BT infinity or Plusnet FTTC

Can't make my mind up between BT infininity option 2 and plusnet extra fibre with pro add on.

Use the net for all sorts really, video streaming (iplayer and youtube etc), web browsing and although I do download p2p I usually don't both during peak hours, mainly leave this for overnight, however on occasion, there is the odd bit of p2p I would need to download during peak times.

I've been thinking about this over and over for days, I can't really go for another ISP as can't afford the extra monthly payment.

I was almost sold on plusnet, however a few things bother me.

1. I've read that even on full 40sync, throughput is generally 1-2mbit slower than other FTTC providers.

2. Upload is capped at 2mb for the time being.

However everything else sounds great about it, I would be able to download the odd torrent at peak time with the pro add on and leave all other downloading overnight and from what I've read there should be no problem with anything else that I would use the internet for.

BT inifinity option 2 also sounds great but again a couple of things both me.

1. I've read that p2p traffic is heavily throttled during peak, so even though I would do most downloading overnight, if I did fancy the odd file at tea time then I've got no way of downloading it, other than using VPN which I don't want to do.

Also my existing ISP, when I requested my MAC code and asked if they could match BT in anyway, said the following :-

"there are increasing reports of people on that service seeing slowdowns on non-P2P traffic at peak times. This can be seen on various forums. Now, this may be a local issue or network, it is impossible to say"


I just really don't know who to go with, as it's 18 month contracts I'd hate to choose the wrong ISP and live with it, is there a cooling off period with either ISP once it's been connected to cancel and not incur any charges?

Do BT infinity throttle torrents so bad that it would be like dial up speed or is it reasonable? And apart from that do people see line speed for everything else? is it literally just p2p traffic that is shaped?

And with plusnet is it true people don't quite get the full usage of the 40mbit line?

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Kind regards

Chris

Welcome to the forums .

Also my existing ISP, when I requested my MAC code and asked if they could match BT in anyway, said the following :-

"there are increasing reports of people on that service seeing slowdowns on non-P2P traffic at peak times. This can be seen on various forums. Now, this may be a local issue or network, it is impossible to say"

That sounds like scare-mongering. I bet they didn't give you any links or forum names.

Which ISP is it anyway? (It helps us advise others).

Did they supply the MAC? (That's the important bit!)

I too get the impression Plusnet may be a Mbps or so slower if you connect at the maximum speed, but not sure at those speeds that it is too relevant. The "Pro" option may do the job better in a few months time than BT Infinity, but I haven't seen any complaints here about it, despite what your ISP said.

What estimate are you getting from this checker?

A year ago there were several reports of some slowdowns. I think it was probably BT Wholesale didn't have enough backhaul in some parts of the country. Or it may have been BT Broadband didn't know where the demand would be so they weren't geared up correctly. But it seems to be sorted.

I'm in the same boat, though different requirements. I'm a light user and no torrents. Looking at the Infinity option 1 and Plusnet Value Fibre. It's almost a toss of the coin job, like yours. I've been on IDNet Fibre Lite for 12 months and can't justify the cost any more.

Edit - the "may" was missing in " option may do the job better".

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 04-Feb-12 22:06:03)

I've also been looking at fibre and considered plusnet but during peak time it would be slower than the broadband I had in 2002 (link - peak time 512kb/s P2P)

I don't download a lot but if I download a 300MB file I want it within 10 minutes, not in an hour or two. If I'm downloading overnight i don't need it to be fast, as long as its done by morning.

I'm waiting on Sky's fibre service which should launch a couple of months before fibre reaches my area.

Hi there and thank you for the quick response.

My current ISP is Xilo, which I have been very happy with on adsl max but there FTTC packages only have a 200 or 300gb FUP and I feel I could easily use that up with the faster speed of fibre.

I have requested the MAC but they advised it can take up to 5 working days to issue.

The results I get for FTTC are as follows :-

"Our test also indicates that your line currently supports a fibre technology with an estimated WBC FTTC Broadband where consumers have received downstream line speed of 40Mbps and upstream line speed of 20Mbps"

Kind regards

In reply to a post by rivageeza:

My current ISP is Xilo, which I have been very happy with on adsl max but there FTTC packages only have a 200 or 300gb FUP and I feel I could easily use that up with the faster speed of fibre.

But the most you can get on Plusnet is 120GB (8am-midnight), so that kind of rules them out.

In reply to a post by Kr1s69:

I've also been looking at fibre and considered plusnet but during peak time it would be slower than the broadband I had in 2002 (link - peak time 512kb/s P2P)

An extra £5 a month (Pro option) would eliminate this restriction.

In reply to a post by kasg:

In reply to a post by rivageeza:

My current ISP is Xilo, which I have been very happy with on adsl max but there FTTC packages only have a 200 or 300gb FUP and I feel I could easily use that up with the faster speed of fibre.

But the most you can get on Plusnet is 120GB (8am-midnight), so that kind of rules them out.

The 120gb peak usage won't be a problem as the majority of downloads will be performed overnight. Also I would go for the pro option without a doubt

Kind regards

Chris

Do BT infinity throttle torrents so bad that it would be like dial up speed or is it reasonable? And apart from that do people see line speed for everything else? is it literally just p2p traffic that is shaped?

Been on Infinity for 2 weeks now,I've been d/l p2p at between 1.5 and 4.5 Mb,Not much diff between Peak or Night time,been great for Me ( so far)

In reply to a post by pokchop1st:

Do BT infinity throttle torrents so bad that it would be like dial up speed or is it reasonable? And apart from that do people see line speed for everything else? is it literally just p2p traffic that is shaped?

Been on Infinity for 2 weeks now,I've been d/l p2p at between 1.5 and 4.5 Mb,Not much diff between Peak or Night time,been great for Me ( so far)

Is that your maximum download speed for anything or simply just p2p traffic?

Chris

Just in case you aren't aware, although the fibre is an 18-month contract, the Pro add-on is only monthly.

I think you can turn it on and have it working immediately, but not sure, so that would need checking if it is of interest. So depending on how occasional your "on occasion" is you might be able to go with that, then just before the end of the Pro month turn it off again.

In reply to a post by rivageeza:

In reply to a post by pokchop1st:

Do BT infinity throttle torrents so bad that it would be like dial up speed or is it reasonable? And apart from that do people see line speed for everything else? is it literally just p2p traffic that is shaped?

Been on Infinity for 2 weeks now,I've been d/l p2p at between 1.5 and 4.5 Mb,Not much diff between Peak or Night time,been great for Me ( so far)

Is that your maximum download speed for anything or simply just p2p traffic?

Chris

This is just on torrents site.

In reply to a post by rivageeza:

Also my existing ISP, when I requested my MAC code and asked if they could match BT in anyway, said the following :-

"there are increasing reports of people on that service seeing slowdowns on non-P2P traffic at peak times. This can be seen on various forums. Now, this may be a local issue or network, it is impossible to say"

This sounds like scaremongering and highly unprofessional behaviour.

I have not noticed any reports of BT Infinity slowing down on non p2p activity whatsoever.

However Xilo heavily markets on this forum so I am sure that Xilo will be along shortly and be able able to expand on this...

On the question of BT v Plusnet, I would say BT. Better upload, free access to Vision and Openzone and unlimited on the higher package.

Edited by deleted (Sat 04-Feb-12 22:03:17)

Post deleted by RobertoS

600m from fttc cab,and alumnium cabling from cab to house.
Profile 38715 Kbps d/l
and 1000Kbps u/l
Todays speed test from BT test was.
35900 Kbps d/l and 5858 Kbps u/l
usually the same all the time.

To be honest I think I'll end up going with plusnet. They do unlimited overnight and with the 120gb peak usage and the "pro" option, if I do need a torrent at peak time then I have ability to get it at line speed. Only downside is the 2mb upload. I was hoping for 10mb as it may aid me getting "host" for call of duty on the Xbox 360. From what I can see it looks like 80/20 trials may open up to existing customers soon so I imagine higher upload will eventually become an option for non beta testers. Just wish my MAC code would come through so I can get my order started. It's going to be a long wait being on 1mbit knowing I could be on 40mbit!!

Kind regards

Chris

It is poor when ISPs don't supply a MAC quickly. There's been a few threads about it on the Plusnet forum, and the reps there have got them theough within a few hours once the bad publicity was rolling.

I had trouble getting mine from my first ISP, Prodigynet, but that was rather a special case. Next was Newnet, who used to say on their website "within 10 minutes" of an online request. They failed miserably - it took twenty minutes to arrive in my email! I think they now say an hour.

Then leaving O2 it arrived with an hour or so of an online request, and I just got one from IDNet - I emailed a request last Sunday evening and it arrived soon after 9am Monday.

Good luck though with the migration. Let us know which way you finally choose. Is that monthly Pro option any use?

In reply to a post by rivageeza:

1. I've read that p2p traffic is heavily throttled during peak, so even though I would do most downloading overnight, if I did fancy the odd file at tea time then I've got no way of downloading it, other than using VPN which I don't want to do.

http://i.imgur.com/hIHPD.jpg

Yea...it's terrible.

In reply to a post by orly:

In reply to a post by rivageeza:

1. I've read that p2p traffic is heavily throttled during peak, so even though I would do most downloading overnight, if I did fancy the odd file at tea time then I've got no way of downloading it, other than using VPN which I don't want to do.

http://i.imgur.com/hIHPD.jpg

Yea...it's terrible.

Well that still works out at 22Mb, i would expect it higher than that.

bt infinity does not slow down p2p traffic on my connection, thats for sure, i regularly get my full sync speed day or night, and bt infinity is totally unlimited, no fair usage at all, i left bt a good few years ago because of traffic management and fup, but now i can totally reccomend them.

In reply to a post by Corbula:

In reply to a post by orly:

In reply to a post by rivageeza:

1. I've read that p2p traffic is heavily throttled during peak, so even though I would do most downloading overnight, if I did fancy the odd file at tea time then I've got no way of downloading it, other than using VPN which I don't want to do.

http://i.imgur.com/hIHPD.jpg

Yea...it's terrible.

Well that still works out at 22Mb, i would expect it higher than that.

But it's not heavily throttled.

In reply to a post by orly:

In reply to a post by rivageeza:

1. I've read that p2p traffic is heavily throttled during peak, so even though I would do most downloading overnight, if I did fancy the odd file at tea time then I've got no way of downloading it, other than using VPN which I don't want to do.

http://i.imgur.com/hIHPD.jpg

Yea...it's terrible.

I hardly ever download torrents but when I do I get 3 KB/s at peak time. All other traffic runs at line speed though. I guess I'm in a busy area. It seems how heavily torrents are throttled depends on the network load in your area at the time.

Of course there are ways around the throttleing, but by default expect as low as 3KB/s at peak time in my experience.

They've said they'll probably be offering the 10Mbps upstream for almost as long as they've been selling live FTTC packages.

It finally looks like there is some movement, courtesy of this post on the packages for the FTTP trials. Ignore the stuff on the 80/20 trials, and make sure you read the comments to see the relevence to FTTC upstream.

I've just had infinity option 2 installed.

Bit late to reply but better than not atall I guess.

I sync at the full 40/10 with an attainable rate of 81.

I see the full throghput at peak times with ~15ms pings. I can download at 4.5MByte/ second even at 8PM.

I find at peak times P2P is throttled, but not heavily. I see around 8-12Mbit throughput on P2P during peak hours.

Following this guide:

http://bootstrike.com/Articles/BitTorrentGuide/

Has helped no end. Changing bt.transp_disposition to 255 helped the most.

Good luck!

In reply to a post by Corbula:

In reply to a post by orly:

In reply to a post by rivageeza:

1. I've read that p2p traffic is heavily throttled during peak, so even though I would do most downloading overnight, if I did fancy the odd file at tea time then I've got no way of downloading it, other than using VPN which I don't want to do.

http://i.imgur.com/hIHPD.jpg

Yea...it's terrible.

Well that still works out at 22Mb, i would expect it higher than that.

When your line connects at about 25Mbit, like mine, it illustrates the point.

In reply to a post by Croftie:

It seems how heavily torrents are throttled depends on the network load in your area at the time.

BT do not throttle based on geographic areas.

http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/10495...
3. Traffic management key facts indicator (Section 2)

In reply to a post by orly:

BT do not throttle based on geographic areas.

I'm not saying they do, I'm saying they throttle based on network load, if that is high in your area you will be throttled.

In reply to a post by Croftie:

In reply to a post by orly:

BT do not throttle based on geographic areas.

I'm not saying they do, I'm saying they throttle based on network load, if that is high in your area you will be throttled.

No, that's not how it works.

It has nothing to do with load in your area. It is done at a national level, once everyone's connection in the country has been aggregated together at Telehouse, their core routers do the traffic managing at a national level before going out via BT's transit providers like Level 3.

Nothing to do with locality or local load whatsoever.

In reply to a post by rivageeza:

2. Upload is capped at 2mb for the time being.

You can pay and extra charge (£2 a month) to uncap it to the full 10mb. Info here.

Edited by Timalay (Sun 05-Feb-12 20:13:45)

In reply to a post by Timalay:

In reply to a post by rivageeza:

2. Upload is capped at 2mb for the time being.

Read somewhere on the plusnet site you can pay and extra charge (£2 a month) to uncap it to the full 10mb

Not yet you can't - product still to be released.

You sound like you know what your talking about, so fair enough.

I just left a ubuntu torrent running and the longer I left it the faster it got, it started at 3KB/s and after 3 mins it was running at 4500 KB/s (full speed). Then I tried a torrent from a private tracker, again started at 3 KB/s but took 8 mins to get up to 500 KB/s. Finally, I enabled encryption and both torrents reached full speed straigh away.

I think i read a post on hear from a plusnet person who said they were exploring 10Mb upload and had not yet worked out the pricing. I also seem to remember him asking an interested party to pm him to have it turned on, so you may not have too long to wait.

edit now found later posts giving you the link.

Edited by philippercival (Sun 05-Feb-12 20:46:32)

In reply to a post by Croftie:

You sound like you know what your talking about, so fair enough.

I just left a ubuntu torrent running and the longer I left it the faster it got, it started at 3KB/s and after 3 mins it was running at 4500 KB/s (full speed). Then I tried a torrent from a private tracker, again started at 3 KB/s but took 8 mins to get up to 500 KB/s. Finally, I enabled encryption and both torrents reached full speed straigh away.

Yep, there are quite a few settings to change in uTorrent to get the best speeds.

I came up with this earlier:

(Optimal uTorrent Settings):

Options > Preferences



"Connection"

> Click "Randomize port each start", ensure all four boxes here are ticked.



"Bandwidth"

> Tick "Alternate upload rate when not downloading".

> Maximum Upload Rate should be ~ 1/2 of your actual upstream bandwidth. I.e. if you have a 1Mbit upstream you would have a theoretical maximum throughput of 128Kbyte/sec, so in here you would enter 64 (It's in KB, not Kb)

> Altername upload rate when not downloading should be ~ 2/3 of your actual upstream bandwidth, so again assuming 1Mbit upstream, you'd enter 85

> "Global Rate Limit Option" - ensure none of these three boxes are ticked

> "Number of Connections" - Global: 256. Per Torrent: 64. Upload slots: 8. Tick "Use additional if under 90%"



"BitTorrent"

> "Basic BitTorrent Features" - ensure all boxes are ticked except "Enable Bandwidth Management" and "Limit local peer bandwidth"

> "Protocol Encryption" - Outgoing: Forced. Allow incoming legacy connections: Ticked.



"Advanced"

> "bt.transp_disposition" - increase to 255 and click "Set"

> "net.max_halfopen" - ensure this is set to 100



These settings increased the throughput on my BT Infinity Option 2 broadband from ~ 700Kbyte/sec to 4.2Mbyte/sec. If your ISP employs traffic management, this will make a big difference.

Thanks, I currently use just one of those options to get full speed at throttled times. I suppose if not using that option tweaking the others could help.

I hope once the torrent feinds get wind of your post infinity doesn't go down hill.

Either it will, or BT will dial up the traffic management for any encrypted packets it can't positively identify.

I've managed to get my upload speed uncapped by Plusnet. The regrade went through about midnight last night. The 10meg product hasn't been released yet but they are in the final stages of a release.

They just wanted a few people to test out the billing system aspect of it, hence why I got it early.

I'd expect a release before the end of the month.

Edited by reddev86 (Tue 07-Feb-12 16:42:36)

What upload throughput speeds are you now seeing?

I have a fairly intermittent & [censored] connection at the moment & see around 5Mb upload from my trial (on a really good day):-

Speedtest.net result

Edited by deleted (Tue 07-Feb-12 16:40:37)

It's up and down a bit, but so far Im averaging around the 6.5meg mark. Upload sync is 7619k so maybe theres some room for improvement.

speedtest.net

Edited by reddev86 (Tue 07-Feb-12 16:44:44)

I've been using Hyperoptic's service for a couple of months now and it's fantastic (I've got the 100 meg although they can supply up to 1 gig!). None of the issues that seem to be discussed on the forum. I'm not sure if they cover your area but it's worth checking?

Better than 2Mb though

I used to get 1.67Mb on the 2 Mb cap.

Hi, have you turned off QoS on the modem? I did that and my upload went from 1.6 ish to 1.8.

Thanks for that.

It went up from 5Mb to 5.36Mb


Speedtest.net - QOS Off

Every little helps