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Standard User orly
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 08-Feb-12 03:01:53
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Re: Dire torrent upload speeds using Infinity off-Peak.


[re: NVB] [link to this post]
 
Generally, and I believe I do speak for "most" people, people are entirely interested in download speeds.

I've demonstrated time and again on this forum that peak time P2P is essentially unthrottled, nevermind off peak time.Your own testing result seems to point in that direction too. I'd never bothered testing upload speeds.

If BT are indeed perma-limiting P2P uploads I'd be the first to congratulate them on a rather sensible, if poorly advertised, policy.

Again, if you'd care to divulge some more details on your particular requirements it'll be easy for anyone to advise you

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Edited by orly (Wed 08-Feb-12 03:03:14)

Standard User NVB
(member) Wed 08-Feb-12 04:42:37
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Re: Dire torrent upload speeds using Infinity off-Peak.


[re: orly] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by orly:
Generally, and I believe I do speak for "most" people, people are entirely interested in download speeds.

I've demonstrated time and again on this forum that peak time P2P is essentially unthrottled, nevermind off peak time.Your own testing result seems to point in that direction too. I'd never bothered testing upload speeds.

If BT are indeed perma-limiting P2P uploads I'd be the first to congratulate them on a rather sensible, if poorly advertised, policy.

Again, if you'd care to divulge some more details on your particular requirements it'll be easy for anyone to advise you


You keep mentioning most people don't care, most people aren't worried, and that generally you believe you do speak for "most" people. Let me ask you a question, are you the sole embodiment for most people using BT Infinity in the UK, I think not, so please get over yourself.

My posts have been purely about upload speeds using P2P, it has never been about download speeds so lets get that straight, and keep to the subject. We are not discussing download speeds here.

The fact that you were unaware BT are using traffic management 24 hours a day for P2P users and that there is no off-peak period does not surprise me because BT don't mention it, and it's probably the reason you do not see more posts on this subject.

Your statements regarding users only being interested in download speeds is misguided and tells me you know nothing about P2P, which is all about sharing.

Lastly, nowhere in my posts have I asked for "unfettered upload speeds" in fact the opposite is true, I don't have a problem with traffic management, I do have a problem with the severity of the traffic management resulting in 90 - 100kB/s upload speeds which are slower than my old ADSL line, and that these restrictions are implemented around the clock.

The fact that you applaud BT's policy on strangling P2P uploads is of no consequence to me, I really should speak to the organ grinder

anyone have BT's CEO email address, TIA

.

Edited by NVB (Wed 08-Feb-12 04:57:08)

Standard User orly
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 08-Feb-12 11:53:11
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Re: Dire torrent upload speeds using Infinity off-Peak.


[re: NVB] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by NVB:
You keep mentioning most people don't care, most people aren't worried, and that generally you believe you do speak for "most" people. Let me ask you a question, are you the sole embodiment for most people using BT Infinity in the UK, I think not, so please get over yourself.

My posts have been purely about upload speeds using P2P, it has never been about download speeds so lets get that straight, and keep to the subject. We are not discussing download speeds here.

The fact that you were unaware BT are using traffic management 24 hours a day for P2P users and that there is no off-peak period does not surprise me because BT don't mention it, and it's probably the reason you do not see more posts on this subject.

Your statements regarding users only being interested in download speeds is misguided and tells me you know nothing about P2P, which is all about sharing.

Lastly, nowhere in my posts have I asked for "unfettered upload speeds" in fact the opposite is true, I don't have a problem with traffic management, I do have a problem with the severity of the traffic management resulting in 90 - 100kB/s upload speeds which are slower than my old ADSL line, and that these restrictions are implemented around the clock.

The fact that you applaud BT's policy on strangling P2P uploads is of no consequence to me, I really should speak to the organ grinder

anyone have BT's CEO email address, TIA

.


Touchy wink

I'd say, based on the complete lack of posts in relation to upload speeds, that most people do not care. My point stands.

Because of the lack of posts from this angle, my interest radar went off which is why I asked what it was you were doing. The fact that you instantly resorted to insults will provide answers to people reading this.

With regards to the CEO's email address. You already know this.

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Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 08-Feb-12 12:06:06
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Re: Dire torrent upload speeds using Infinity off-Peak.


[re: orly] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by orly:
People aren't usually too worried about upstream direction. What exactly is it that you're sharing that requires especially high upload speeds?


I would be more concerned as to why BT feel the need to limit upstream at all. As their traffic will be primarily one way meaning upstream should never be highly utilised.
Standard User WWWombat
(experienced) Wed 08-Feb-12 14:24:13
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Re: Dire torrent upload speeds using Infinity off-Peak.


[re: NVB] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by NVB:
The only thing that is obvious to me is that BT throttle P2P upload speeds 24 hours a day and that there is nothing in BT's Traffic Management policy to indicate that they are currently doing this, I'm pretty sure some people reading that policy will think OK well I'll just restrict my P2P file sharing to off-peak periods, but there are no off-peak periods. So yes I guess that does make me somewhat confused, naive even.


I'm not sure how many people have to point you to the same single unambiguous sentence in the BT policy:
Upstream restrictions may be in place at other times.


You might not like the fact that "at other times" has, in practice, become 24x7, but it is there in the policy, as clear as daylight.

To be honest, the whole policy is full of loopholes that allow BT to manage anything, at any time. I've highlighted a few of the weasel words & phrases here:
To protect the performance of the network and to ensure the best experience for all users of the service, at peak times we may manage the speed of non-time critical applications such as P2P.

P2P refers to certain applications that enable files and program sharing between groups of people logged on to a P2P network. Because they use uploads and downloads and are often left running 24/7, they consume significant bandwidth, even when being used by just a small number of customers.

Because a lot of P2P traffic is not time-critical - for example, downloading and uploading TV programmes or movies for later viewing - we treat P2P traffic differently from time-critical traffic (such as surfing, streaming or internet telephony) and apply speed restrictions to all P2P traffic. We manage these restrictions daily based on the demands on the network, but downstream restrictions will typically be in place 4pm - midnight on weekdays and 9am - midnight on the weekend. Upstream restrictions may be in place at other times.

You can, of course, still use P2P services, but downloads will take longer during the peak times.

We may need to vary the policy from time to time to ensure the best possible experience for all our customers. This site will always be kept up to date with the latest information.


The language is full of terminology that allows them to change the behaviour to include other applications, change the limits both up & down, at any time they wish, and in any way they wish.

The naivety comes in believing that these things are static.

If I were doing what you are doing, and I read that section of text, I would understand that BT considered me & my activities to be the cause of network problems to their other customers, and that BT would target me & my activities - I would expect that targetting to increase over time, and to steadily focus. The little section on upstream would warn me especially that the worst targetting would be on uploaders.

I don't care what you are trying to upload (but others will), but surely you are aware that being a P2P uploader, rightly or wrongly, puts you top of many people's target lists. You shouldn't be surprised when the sights are brought to bear.

And please don't get uppity when someone questions what you are doing. You are indeed the first person that I've seen who is complaining about P2P *upload* speeds. Accusing other posters of trying to speak for everyone, when patently they weren't, merely makes you look, well, guilty.
Standard User Renfrew
(regular) Wed 08-Feb-12 17:00:32
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Re: Dire torrent upload speeds using Infinity off-Peak.


[re: NVB] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by NVB:
I don't have a problem with traffic management but I do have a problem when I want to upload something on P2P well after midnight, well outside the BT peak period and I see my upload speeds piddling along at 900 kB/s when my line is capable of 8 Mbit/sec. These off peak restrictions on P2P uploads are too severe.

There is no restriction because 900 kB/s (kilobytes per second) is roughly the same as 8 Mbit/sec (megabits per second), after taking into account transmission overheads. Or did you mean to write 900 kb/s (kilobits per second)? If so, you ought to check and then double-check the accuracy of what it is that you are writing if you want to avoid misunderstanding. You can only reasonably expect people to take what you write as being what you mean.

--
Dave N

Every day, ...... is another day
Standard User Zadeks
(committed) Thu 09-Feb-12 10:06:05
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Re: Dire torrent upload speeds using Infinity off-Peak.


[re: NVB] [link to this post]
 
Ignore orly. He's the number one BT fanboy. He's clearly out of touch and doesn't understand BitTorrent.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 09-Feb-12 10:53:24
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Re: Dire torrent upload speeds using Infinity off-Peak.


[re: NVB] [link to this post]
 
Have you had anything like tbbMeter or Networx, or even the Windows performance monitor, running at the same time as these low speeds occur, including during the Glasnost test?

Those show your total upload throughput in real-time, and I think it would be worthwhile to check they show the same speeds as you report, or whether something else is going on.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User orly
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 09-Feb-12 14:00:26
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Re: Dire torrent upload speeds using Infinity off-Peak.


[re: Zadeks] [link to this post]
 
Still griping at the fact you're getting your wallet emptied by Zen for an "unshaped" connection while I get the same thing from BT for a fraction of the cost (and with no silly bandwidth limits)?

Diddums.

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> Comparison chart of FTTC ISPs
> Got FTTC? Complete the survey

BT Infinity 8th July 2010
(NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
Speedtest Tracking

Edited by orly (Thu 09-Feb-12 14:06:31)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 09-Feb-12 14:14:24
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Re: Dire torrent upload speeds using Infinity off-Peak.


[re: orly] [link to this post]
 
It is called freedom of choice

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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