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Standard User orly
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 09-Feb-12 15:07:17
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Re: Dire torrent upload speeds using Infinity off-Peak.


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Problem is he just shows up in threads to troll. Seems to have appointed himself expert on Infinity, even showing up in the BT forums to spout nonsense. Yet nothing is done about it.

---
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BT Infinity 8th July 2010
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Standard User reddev86
(regular) Thu 09-Feb-12 15:42:28
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Re: Dire torrent upload speeds using Infinity off-Peak.


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
Exactly the reason I opted for Plusnet. There is little if any room for interpretation of their policy.

FTTC via Plusnet Fibre Extra Pro
DS: 40Mbit US: 7Mbit
NILN PCP 31 - 520m line length
Netgear WNR1000
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 09-Feb-12 19:02:14
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Re: Dire torrent upload speeds using Infinity off-Peak.


[re: reddev86] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by reddev86:
Exactly the reason I opted for Plusnet. There is little if any room for interpretation of their policy.
Nor understanding a lot of it tongue.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.


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Standard User Neutrik
(newbie) Thu 09-Feb-12 21:36:54
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Re: Dire torrent upload speeds using Infinity off-Peak.


[re: NVB] [link to this post]
 
BT have always been pretty aggressive with the traffic shaping so it shouldn't be too surprising that they manage traffic outside of peak times. They mention this themselves where effectively say they can throttle speeds anytime they like. I experimented with torrent speeds outside of peak times and felt like the traffic was managed (and yes I know how to configure a torrent client).

With that said its pretty easy to purchase a private VPN and then use P2P as much as you like. And really this is the best solution if you compare it to other fibre packages. The price of Infinity + VPN pretty much represents the best value for 'unlimited' bandwidth at any time over fibre. At least until BE or Sky come out with their product.

FWIW, I get 33mbps down and 7.5mbps up over VPN.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Thu 09-Feb-12 22:16:22
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Re: Dire torrent upload speeds using Infinity off-Peak.


[re: Neutrik] [link to this post]
 
As the OP is complaining about lack of upload speed I cannot see how Sky will be any better given that they are only offering 2 Mb on upload and have not announced any more upgrades at the moment.

The option of a seedbox or something like a NAS with a p2p client is the way to go.

D-link do a NAS enclosure with a p2p client built in and costs 50 or so pounds and you can let that run all day.

The OP also hasn't said why he wants such a large upload speed which for the vast majority of users doesn't really matter.

Although it makes me laught that people get BT Infinity and then [censored] and whine that they traffic shape, as I don't use p2p I would rather have traffic shaping that the old FUP or even worse connection throttling for all.
Standard User Northwind
(learned) Fri 10-Feb-12 12:19:23
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Re: Dire torrent upload speeds using Infinity off-Peak.


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Anonymous:
The OP also hasn't said why he wants such a large upload speed which for the vast majority of users doesn't really matter.


In philosophical terms, I don't think that it's an issue of "not mattering" to most folk as them having been told for the past decade that it doesn't matter.

ADSL's A-for-asymmetry has very much skewed the Internet, and the Web most of all, into a consumption experience with centralised content.

We should be encouraging people to run their own services at home, not shouting-down people who do so.

Although it wasn't of value to me, concepts like Opera Unite ( a web server within the web browser ) are a good way of introducing common folk to the concept of sharing information; photos, thoughts, stories or whatever.

So to the OP: congratulations to you for trying to use your upstream to the max, even though I might find the "content" you are sharing not to my taste.

--
Goscomb ( BE Wholesale ), Exchange NINTS

Edited by Northwind (Fri 10-Feb-12 12:20:44)

Anonymous
(Unregistered)Fri 10-Feb-12 13:42:39
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Re: Dire torrent upload speeds using Infinity off-Peak.


[re: Northwind] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Northwind:
In reply to a post by Anonymous:
The OP also hasn't said why he wants such a large upload speed which for the vast majority of users doesn't really matter.


In philosophical terms, I don't think that it's an issue of "not mattering" to most folk as them having been told for the past decade that it doesn't matter.

ADSL's A-for-asymmetry has very much skewed the Internet, and the Web most of all, into a consumption experience with centralised content.

We should be encouraging people to run their own services at home, not shouting-down people who do so.

Although it wasn't of value to me, concepts like Opera Unite ( a web server within the web browser ) are a good way of introducing common folk to the concept of sharing information; photos, thoughts, stories or whatever.

So to the OP: congratulations to you for trying to use your upstream to the max, even though I might find the "content" you are sharing not to my taste.


Why are people saying that the original poster must be uploading distasteful content?

On any private bit torrent website you have your ratio tracked. Private torrent sites help users avoid being sued.
Standard User WWWombat
(experienced) Fri 10-Feb-12 15:13:27
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Re: Dire torrent upload speeds using Infinity off-Peak.


[re: Northwind] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Northwind:
In reply to a post by Anonymous:
The OP also hasn't said why he wants such a large upload speed which for the vast majority of users doesn't really matter.


In philosophical terms, I don't think that it's an issue of "not mattering" to most folk as them having been told for the past decade that it doesn't matter.

In this case, it has nothing to do with any philosophical stuff whatsoever - merely the psychological defensive response that came back when asked if it was upload speed he was talking about.

ADSL's A-for-asymmetry has very much skewed the Internet, and the Web most of all, into a consumption experience with centralised content.

Or, rather than skewing the internet, it could be considered to be doing exactly the job it was designed to do.

As a mass-market solution, capable of mass-deployment by massive telcos, it does the job that most people want of it - which is very much skewed to download. ADSL merely follows the skew, rather than creating it.

If someone wants to do something different - then by all means do it. But don't do it by trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. If you have different needs, then there are different solutions. If you can't afford the right solution, then you make do with the solutions you *can* afford.

Recently, BT changed the FTTC solution from profile 8C with bandplan 997 into profile 17a with bandplan 998. For the luckiest people, the profile change increases the download speed to 80Mbps. However, the bandplan change turns some old upstream frequencies into downstream, and helps make sure *everyone* gets double the downstream speed, even if they can't make use of the higher frequencies.

That is a recent & deliberate choice, and not forced by the technology. It suggests that the market is wanting *more* skew.

We should be encouraging people to run their own services at home, not shouting-down people who do so.

Aside from the fact that no-one was shouted down, nor asked what the content was, nor implied to be doing anything illegal, I disagree that we should be encouraging people to run services at home - at least stated in such a generic way. Allowing it, certainly. Not standing in the way, certainly. Not crippling it, certainly. But encouraging? There are actually better places to run services from - in various hosting centres. Not every service, and not everybody. We should instead be encouraging people to be open-minded in both directions.

Although it wasn't of value to me, concepts like Opera Unite ( a web server within the web browser ) are a good way of introducing common folk to the concept of sharing information; photos, thoughts, stories or whatever.

Sounds very much like the feature-set offered by a blog. Wordpress.com and Blogger offer these features without you needing to trouble your own computer.
Standard User WWWombat
(experienced) Fri 10-Feb-12 15:19:30
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Re: Dire torrent upload speeds using Infinity off-Peak.


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Anonymous:
Why are people saying that the original poster must be uploading distasteful content?

No-one was saying that at all. The OP was merely questioned that he really was talking about upstream, as it was entirely clear, and it certainly isn't often that the mention of P2P speed problems is focussed on upstream rather than downstream.

If anything, the implication of what the content could be came from the OP's defensive response to that question, rather than the question itself.

On any private bit torrent website you have your ratio tracked.

That is a very good point. I'd forgotten that some places places limits on what you can do based on the ratio.

And that is, of course, a perfectly good response to the original, perfectly good, question. So much better than getting on the defensive!

Private torrent sites help users avoid being sued.

They might look like they help, but whether they actually do is debateable.
Standard User DLS
(learned) Fri 10-Feb-12 17:40:17
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Re: Dire torrent upload speeds using Infinity off-Peak.


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
I can see both sides of this, but I think the bottom lines are:

- The reality is that traffic management is inevitable in a contended network, although it might not always be done well.
- The current "norm" is download dominates (hence the product optimisation), but that wasn't always so and there's reason to believe demand won't always be so uneven.
- Nevertheless, if you want something that isn't the norm, you'd better be prepared to pay.

I'm not a BitTorrent user but I've used Glasnost to checkout what's happening on my Infinity business broadband; there's no indication of any shaping - up or down. That could be a false negative since none of the protocols I've tested (BitTorrent, SSH and HTTP) are driving my 40/10 link flat-out. Nevertheless, they're all showing uploads of ~5 Mbit/s night and day (and when other speed tests show 7-8). Most likely an indication of congestion between me and the MLAB Glasnost servers rather than shaping, and certainly faster than the OP. Maybe that's a difference between the business and domestic Infinity products.

I agree that services are better run from somewhere other than home. With enough bandwidth (and low-enough latency and jitter), this might eventually include those "services" provided by all that stuff behind/under the display and keyboard.

However, P2P was the original norm for the internet, although I entirely accept that widespread consumer adoption of the internet has come about largely as a result of commercial services that are client-server layers on top of the web.

With the accelerating growth of precious digital possessions, upload speed will once again matter more than it does now. Even using a local NAS and dribbling the upload, I'd like to be able to even things up a little. I'd like to do a full remote backup overnight and incrementals transparently during the day. I may be a little odd (not to mention paranoid, albeit with experience), but for a regular Joe, perhaps Granny would like to see the HD movie of a newborn today, rather than sometime next week. That card full of 20 Mpix photos shouldn't take all day to upload to the print shop. Once we reach the point of being able to stream multiple HDTV channels down, the only way is up.

Nevertheless, right now, the consumer/domestic products are optimised for download, so maybe it's worth paying more if one wants it both ways.
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