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Standard User PhotoFiend
(learned) Sat 18-Aug-12 14:32:48
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To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[link to this post]
 
Hi guys

I am and have been with O2 for over two years, have their old premium (I think) package which is truly unlimited and I have their phone service as well, costs me around £30-£35 a month and runs at around 10.5mbps.

I've only ever had a couple of problems in that time and when I have I've spoken to someone in an english call centre who didn't just follow a script and fixed the problem swiftly...except for when I rang the other day with a simple question and was cut off twice, given wrong information and then had a fustrating time getting it sorted.

Anyway...

Fibre is now in my area but it isn't as simple a decision as for most people.

I run a business from home and have my business line through VOIP, the quality of the product and the backup when I need it are my most important factors.

I'm not going for a business package as it will cost more (been stung in the past) and I will have to pass those costs onto my customers which I don't want and in this climate can't really afford to do., so that's out.

So I don't know what to do...keep as I am, better the devil you know and all that or cross my fingers, upgrade and get better download and upload speeds.

I think I would be getting at least a three times increase in speed by going for fibre.

What is the support like for BT or Sky these days? I've been looking at the BT forums and there is some grim reading to be had on there, with anecdotal reports saying about how good BTs support was and it's gone downhill lately.
Standard User JNeuhoff
(experienced) Sat 18-Aug-12 15:18:50
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: PhotoFiend] [link to this post]
 
Are you sure you got fibre in your area? In most areas, BT does not provide fibre lines.

Chances are you will still keep your old copper wire, at the most it will only be fibre from the street cabinet to your local exchange.

If you can post your exchange details (look it up on samknows.co.uk) someone should be able to point out some of the better ISPs for small business users.

Xilo is a good ISP for small business users.
Standard User PhotoFiend
(learned) Sat 18-Aug-12 15:41:09
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: JNeuhoff] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the reply.

I should have made it clear, it's FTTC I'm talking about.

My exchange is enabled for FTTC. I've just had a look at Xilo you mentioned but I find the caps it's places rather restrictive, I'd like an unmetered service.

I used to be with Zen and constantly had it in my mind about exceeding my data allowance...O2 has been great in that respect so any ISP has to be totally unmetered or I think I'd prefer to stay where I am.


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Standard User StephenTodd
(member) Sat 18-Aug-12 15:42:14
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: PhotoFiend] [link to this post]
 
I've found BT support fine, but there are clearly quite a few with disaster stories. I guess strictly if you are running a business from home you are not withing the Ts&Cs of either O2 nor BT's home services, but that is up to you. If you go for the BT business service you will have UK support rather than Indian; I have found the Indians polite and helpful. Most of the issues with FTTC seem to be Openreach at heart, not BT retail or other retailers. Whoever you go with on FTTC, you will be running the Openreach gauntlet of missed appointments and (a few) hamfisted installers. The BT retail ordering process seems to be particularly terrible once it goes wrong.

--
Moved (with trepidation) to BT Infinity 2 for upload speed. Happy BE user for several years.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 18-Aug-12 16:31:52
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: PhotoFiend] [link to this post]
 
The fact that your exchange has been enabled doesn't necessarily mean you cabinet has. What does this checker say about your phone number? (Not the postcode or address).

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre FTTC 80/20 trial.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User PhotoFiend
(learned) Sat 18-Aug-12 16:48:44
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the reply, you are right in your consternation, my area was enabled but for some reason my road wasn't, a case of "computer says no" I think...I'm pleased to say it's all up and running now.


Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 2Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 8Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 7Mbps and 8Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL2+ broadband line speed of 10.5Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 9.5Mbps and 11.5Mbps. Our test also indicates that your line could support an estimated ADSL 2+ Annex-M broadband upstream line speed of 1Mbps and downstream line speed of 10.5Mbps; typically the downstream speed would range between 9.5Mbps and 11.5Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports a fibre technology with an estimated WBC FTTC Broadband where consumers have received downstream line speed of 25.7Mbps and upstream line speed of 5.7Mbps.

The actual stable line speed supportable will be determined during the first 10 days of use. This speed may change over time, to ensure line stability is maintained.

Furthermore your exchange has been enabled for multicast services on fibre lines, please contact your provider for further details.

If you decide to place an order, a further test will be performed to confirm if your line is suitable for the service you wish to purchase.

Thank you for your interest."

Edited by PhotoFiend (Sat 18-Aug-12 16:51:41)

Standard User R0NSKI
(committed) Sat 18-Aug-12 17:10:50
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: PhotoFiend] [link to this post]
 
Have you considered Plus Net? Although not unlimited you do get 250GB with the new packages and unlimited between midnight and 8am, they have also relaxed the throttling the apply to certain protocols.

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 18-Aug-12 17:11:17
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: PhotoFiend] [link to this post]
 
That's fine smile.

Sky "officially" don't allow business use of their domestic service, and I have no idea of their VOIP facilities.

BT doesn't seem to come across too badly from what I see here. There's bound to be a lot of complaints with that number of customers. MHC swears by his BT Business Broadband on a domestic line, and apparently that gets good UK support and of course a priority response to problems. Was your bad experience of a business connection with BT?

I went from O2 Standard to IDNet Fibre for a year, then moved to Plusnet, (with trepidation), and have to say I'm impressed. I don't expect the 40GB (peak time) product would do for you - but it might, depending on the type of business. The 250GB one is only £19.99pm. Traffic management has been relaxe but the new details aren't on the website yet.

The telephone support seems to get plenty of bad reports, but my experience of it has been fine. The rep support here and in the community forum is very good.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre FTTC 80/20 trial.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Sat 18-Aug-12 17:16:03
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Sky "officially" don't allow business use of their domestic service, and I have no idea of their VOIP facilities.


What is unclear is if they mean business use for a self employed with the office at home, or people home working who are employed by a larger business.

Virgin Media (when they were NTL) tried to ban both, and gained a massive amount of backlash. Most people don't mind banning the former from domestic services.

In fact many small business can use much less broadband (Download / upload) than domestic users, just look at AAISP's pricing for one example. Businesses often aren't downloading movies at 10GB at a time smile

James be* pro (16.8 / 1.2 sync) - BQM - FTTC cab arrived 18-jun-2012 - active 16-aug-2012
Sky Broadband Unlimited Fibre Pro ordered 16/Aug - estimate 45.6/6.5 mbps - install 4th Sept

Edited by jchamier (Sat 18-Aug-12 17:16:57)

Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Sat 18-Aug-12 17:25:33
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
Businesses often aren't downloading movies at 10GB at a time smile

I have NEVER come across a *film* that came in at that size. The vast majority are 700MB and the quality is excellent, so I have been told wink.

DrT

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Sat 18-Aug-12 18:03:14
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by DrTeeth:
In reply to a post by jchamier:
Businesses often aren't downloading movies at 10GB at a time smile

I have NEVER come across a *film* that came in at that size. The vast majority are 700MB and the quality is excellent, so I have been told wink.


Ha, I'm talking iTunes Store in Full HD. I'm aware some wink are about that size (for CD apparently) but they're not Full HD (1080) but those that are 720p might be around 3 GB.

James be* pro (16.8 / 1.2 sync) - BQM - FTTC cab arrived 18-jun-2012 - active 16-aug-2012
Sky Broadband Unlimited Fibre Pro ordered 16/Aug - estimate 45.6/6.5 mbps - install 4th Sept
Standard User MHC
(legend) Sat 18-Aug-12 19:48:33
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: PhotoFiend] [link to this post]
 
So, you are running a business and don't want to pay for a business service - all of an extra £5 or so per month. It is tax deductible and VAT recoverable whereas a residential service may not be - and I know of cases where those costs have not been allowed.

Just wait until a mad driver hits the pole outside your house and your line goes down. The response from a business service would mean you are back up and running in 2 days whereas a residential could to 10 to 15 weeks ... I am not joking as I have had exactly that.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Sat 18-Aug-12 19:59:21
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
Just wait until a mad driver hits the pole outside your house and your line goes down. The response from a business service would mean you are back up and running in 2 days whereas a residential could to 10 to 15 weeks ... I am not joking as I have had exactly that.


and in many UK towns you could have 3 different 3G WiFi routers for cheaper as insurance. on PAYG too.

I get 5Mbps download and 1Mbps upload on a £7/month 3 MiFi for example in my front room, and have seen 10Mbps/2Mbps.

James be* pro (16.8 / 1.2 sync) - BQM - FTTC cab arrived 18-jun-2012 - active 16-aug-2012
Sky Broadband Unlimited Fibre Pro ordered 16/Aug - estimate 45.6/6.5 mbps - install 4th Sept
Standard User PhotoFiend
(learned) Sat 18-Aug-12 20:45:44
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
You make a good point with the support offered, which would certainly be a bonus and you're right for accounting purposes stating that the line is a business only line would probably be useful.

But...

I hated having to think about download limits when I was with Zen several years ago and to transfer to fibre and have to think about it would be madness so I would be looking at the £41 a month service.

I can't see mention of line rental so I hope that's included, but that's without a phone service which I don't use that much but I do still value it.

I would be paying more for less (except the support if needed), my accountant hasn't had a problem with the way I have broken down the phone/net charges on all my returns so far...

It's a tricky one!
Standard User PhotoFiend
(learned) Sat 18-Aug-12 20:51:41
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: StephenTodd] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the reply, that sounds reassuring to hear. Yeah I know...little grey area really but I don't abuse the system in an way, I'm sure I make less calls for example than most families!

Interesting to hear where most of the problems come from...I guess BT is as helpless as anyone else if it's Openreach that's at fault.
Standard User PhotoFiend
(learned) Sat 18-Aug-12 21:01:21
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
Thank you all for your replies, I'm doing my best to address all points, struggling to make sure I cover everything and it still make sense with the way the forum is laid out.

The 250GB Plus net account probably wouldn't do for me.

It's a home computer based business so iplayer will be streaming in HD for most of the day then it could be used in the evening for large downloads or gaming, I can see that would be used rather quickly which is why I'm looking at the unlimited services, so I don't have to think about it.

Hmmmm...this is tricky!
Standard User PhotoFiend
(learned) Sat 18-Aug-12 21:12:15
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Whoops, just realised I hadn't replied to this one!

Hmmm, are Sky more strict than BT I wonder...

For the VOIP I have an account with Voipfone and it's only for receiving incoming calls, I assume that would just be treated as normal data.

Do you have any links to posts by MHC regarding his BT Business broadband on a domestic line? That would make an interesting read if it's a fibre connection.
Standard User PhotoFiend
(learned) Sat 18-Aug-12 21:13:25
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: PhotoFiend] [link to this post]
 
One thing I've just thought of...

The BT business fibre product at £41 per month for unlimited...does that include any sort of line rental or is that on top?

I can't seem to find mention of it on the relevant page either way.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 18-Aug-12 21:17:12
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: PhotoFiend] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhotoFiend:
Do you have any links to posts by MHC regarding his BT Business broadband on a domestic line? That would make an interesting read if it's a fibre connection.
I think he deals with multiple connections, in the way of earning his living. He is certainly someone whose opinion I very much respect, with a few minor disagreements as is to be expected.

He has posted in this thread, so best to ask him for more info rather than me smile.

A more long-winded way is to use the Search facility, enter MHC as the search word, and select to search by username. But there's going to be a lottttt... to plough through tongue.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre FTTC 80/20 trial.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 18-Aug-12 21:20:06
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: PhotoFiend] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhotoFiend:
One thing I've just thought of...

The BT business fibre product at £41 per month for unlimited...does that include any sort of line rental or is that on top?

I can't seem to find mention of it on the relevant page either way.
You'd better give a link to where that is. I don't see any such price.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre FTTC 80/20 trial.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User ukhardy07
(experienced) Sat 18-Aug-12 21:25:23
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: PhotoFiend] [link to this post]
 
I've got sky broadband at home

I use it for home and work. I often VPN into work and receive VoIP work related calls etc
We have a BT account purely for work. An employer provided this. A homehub arrived though! So the business provided us a home service broadband which is PURELY intended for business use.
They're a very large housing development company (not a small player).
Had it for years though without problems.

They can't stop you using it for work related things without proving its being used this way. & they never do this. It would cost a fortune to raise a good enough case to prove things.

If its being used on a business premise and not a home I think it's a bad idea to get a home service though.

If its being used in a home with an office inside the house... Get a home service. Like me smile

As a side note BT has a fair bit of throttling whereas Sky doesn't.
Standard User PhotoFiend
(learned) Sat 18-Aug-12 21:32:24
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Just realised my prices are a little out as I didn't add VAT onto the extra £5.

http://business.bt.com/broadband-and-internet/fibre-...

£30 + VAT - £36
£5 for unlimited + VAT - £6

=£42 a month
Standard User PhotoFiend
(learned) Sat 18-Aug-12 21:33:30
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for that detailed post, that's brilliant, just the sort of things I was hoping to hear.

You have waved a big red flag though - throttling - what's that about? What on earth would they throttle on a fibre service and when?
Standard User ukhardy07
(experienced) Sat 18-Aug-12 21:45:37
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: PhotoFiend] [link to this post]
 
Sky no throttling

Work just got us BT infinity
Torrents throttled to 200 KB/s. It's random throttling not specific times. I think it's throttled whenever load on the networks high. Eg one day at 8pm, p2p / torrents are 7Mb/s... Same time another day 0.2Mb/s
Even enabling forced encryption doesn't solve it. It speeds up for about 2 minutes and then drops back down.

VPN into work seems throttled or at least slower than the Sky connection. Which means we end up using the non work connection more.

Anything else seems fine.

As I say I've been using a connection at home for about ten years with a home and work mix. Other people in my house also do work related things on here too. Never once a problem. I'm sure that plenty of people are the same!

My other half does work stuff on here & somebody else does web design too.

As I say BT must get this all the time. Our work put a home service here for business use via BT. They did this for around 500 people and as yet nobodies had any issues. I expected a BT business hub to arrive and was shocked when I got a homehub

I can honestly say we use the sky connection 99% of the time as all our machines default connect to it. Never had a problem.

Never had a problem with BT either

By never had a problem I mean they've never moaned about it being used for work. I've had a few line issues though. Nobodies fault though

Edited by ukhardy07 (Sat 18-Aug-12 21:47:16)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 18-Aug-12 21:49:03
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: PhotoFiend] [link to this post]
 
At the bottom of that page: "BT Infinity for Business - things you need to know". Click it.

Looks like the phone line is extra. Also it says it can slow down.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre FTTC 80/20 trial.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User VictorMeldrew
(learned) Sat 18-Aug-12 21:58:15
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by PhotoFiend:
One thing I've just thought of...

The BT business fibre product at £41 per month for unlimited...does that include any sort of line rental or is that on top?

I can't seem to find mention of it on the relevant page either way.
You'd better give a link to where that is. I don't see any such price.


I'm currently with talktalk, and pretty happy with my deal

i pay advance line rental, after that, I pay £1.75 a month for unlimited BroadBand, and when BT get my cab sorted out it will be a £10 bolt-on for fibre, gross £11.75 per month.

beat that smile

edit this is fixed for 12 month contract, when it runs out will make a new deal for same

Edited by VictorMeldrew (Sat 18-Aug-12 22:00:24)

Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Sat 18-Aug-12 22:01:34
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: PhotoFiend] [link to this post]
 
BT Business broadband FTTC flavour.

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 18-Aug-12 22:07:20
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Dozing off Zarjaz? That's the link he gave me a bit ago.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre FTTC 80/20 trial.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User dave2150
(experienced) Sun 19-Aug-12 09:17:03
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by DrTeeth:
In reply to a post by jchamier:
Businesses often aren't downloading movies at 10GB at a time smile

I have NEVER come across a *film* that came in at that size. The vast majority are 700MB and the quality is excellent, so I have been told wink.

DrT


People watching 700mb movies are like those who are still watching VHS. 700mb cannot carry a 'proper' HD 720 or 1080P bitrate.

Maybe some are too old/stupid to notice the difference in quality of a 700mb dvd rip and a 10gb 1080 Blueray rip.

Through my eyes, the difference is like night and day.

Avoid Plusnet, 250gb limit is terrible for this day and age, go with sky, they are completely unlimited.

============
Sky ADSL
============
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 19-Aug-12 09:32:49
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: dave2150] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dave2150:
Avoid Plusnet, 250gb limit is terrible for this day and age, go with sky, they are completely unlimited.
?
My typical usage is under 7GB per month. However, rather than download films I frequently go to classical music concerts, opera, theatre and ballet.

My television viewing averages under 3 hours a week I expect. My Radio 3 and Radio 4 listening is several hours per day. We do not have Sky TV nor feel the need for it, except for my annoyance about the current availability of F1 coverage on "free to view". (Solved with IPTV well within my allowance).

I'd be fairly sure the majority of internet users without kids at home need 10GB or less.

Also note the question the OP is asking and what he says about his usage needs.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre FTTC 80/20 trial.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 19-Aug-12 09:33:42)

Standard User Squirrel
(knowledge is power) Sun 19-Aug-12 09:35:18
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: PhotoFiend] [link to this post]
 
It's posts like these that make me shake my head in dispare.

You run a business which cannot cope with a monthly charge of £41 plus line rental.

I have a tip for you, forget about broadband and find yourself another job. I suppose suggesting a "real" business leased line is out of the question then.

Ian Stirling

BT Infinity

Fastest Download http://speedtest.net/result/2047261184.png
Fastest Upload http://speedtest.net/result/1896890536.png
Standard User dave2150
(experienced) Sun 19-Aug-12 09:39:11
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by dave2150:
Avoid Plusnet, 250gb limit is terrible for this day and age, go with sky, they are completely unlimited.
?
My typical usage is under 7GB per month. However, rather than download films I frequently go to classical music concerts, opera, theatre and ballet.

My television viewing averages under 3 hours a week I expect. My Radio 3 and Radio 4 listening is several hours per day. We do not have Sky TV nor feel the need for it, except for my annoyance about the current availability of F1 coverage on "free to view". (Solved with IPTV well within my allowance).

I'd be fairly sure the majority of internet users without kids at home need 10GB or less.

Also note the question the OP is asking and what he says about his usage needs.


My post was written for the OP, not you. I'm fully aware that some just check emails, browse simple websites and do not use their line for anything else. Obviously a 10gb limit or less is fine for that.

To quote the OP , "I used to be with Zen and constantly had it in my mind about exceeding my data allowance...O2 has been great in that respect so any ISP has to be totally unmetered or I think I'd prefer to stay where I am. ''

He is clearly stating that he used to be limited by a monthly download limit with Zen and that he wants to stay with a unlimited provider, hence my sky recommendation.

============
Sky ADSL
============

Edited by dave2150 (Sun 19-Aug-12 09:39:46)

Standard User simon194
(member) Sun 19-Aug-12 09:41:37
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Sky "officially" don't allow business use of their domestic service, and I have no idea of their VOIP facilities.


What is unclear is if they mean business use for a self employed with the office at home, or people home working who are employed by a larger business.

I had this conversation with Sky a while back when my employer decided to stop paying for the broadband service for us that don't work from home permanently.

Basically they define "business use" as anyone who is self-employed running a business or works from home permanently for an employer. They will "tolerate" occasional use, as in my case, although it will be the usual up to 72 hour response to faults. Mind you I doubt if they would terminate your service if you were using it for business use.

VoIP works fine because I use Sipgate for calls outside my domestic calls package and a Cisco setup for work.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 19-Aug-12 09:56:16
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: dave2150] [link to this post]
 
To quote the OP , "I used to be with Zen and constantly had it in my mind about exceeding my data allowance...O2 has been great in that respect so any ISP has to be totally unmetered or I think I'd prefer to stay where I am. ''
Oops! I'd forgotten that bit smile. Just reacting to your sweeping statement.

It might be interesting to know what sort of Zen allowance was a problem and what he thinks his current usage is. It's one thing worrying when using 80 or 90GB on 100GB 24/7 allowance, and another on 250GB with unlimited off-peak.

Ther's also a possibility that he does a lot of uploading. Isn't Sky like BT on that - reportedly severely throttled at times?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre FTTC 80/20 trial.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Sun 19-Aug-12 10:34:29
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
My typical usage is under 7GB per month. However, rather than download films I frequently go to classical music concerts, opera, theatre and ballet.


I rent movies via my Apple TV - blockbuster closed down and lovefilm only has the same titles 4 months later. I saw one movie last night and it used 8 GB of data.

My television viewing averages under 3 hours a week I expect. My Radio 3 and Radio 4 listening is several hours per day. We do not have Sky TV nor feel the need for it, except for my annoyance about the current availability of F1 coverage on "free to view". (Solved with IPTV well within my allowance).


I watch about an hour of TV a week - and a couple of movies at weekends generally.

I'd be fairly sure the majority of internet users without kids at home need 10GB or less.
Also note the question the OP is asking and what he says about his usage needs.


Depends what they do with the internet. Those of us who've been online for 10+ years still think of the internet as a text medium, web pages, email, forums, etc. The younger lot think of the internet as video.

I know a couple with no kids who can easily use 70GB a month on their internet activities just from watching movies and TV show sonline (via LoveFilm and Netflix streaming). They have Virgin cable internet.

The problem I have with saying 10GB is enough is that it limits what people can do. Similarly to AAISP's pricing - the uses of the internet are evolving and without 50GB per month allowance much of these new services won't get used. Thus Sky and BT, and Virgin's services are unmetered.

James be* pro (16.8 / 1.2 sync) - BQM - FTTC cab arrived 18-jun-2012 - active 16-aug-2012
Sky Broadband Unlimited Fibre Pro ordered 16/Aug - estimate 45.6/6.5 mbps - install 4th Sept
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 19-Aug-12 11:44:30
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Don't forget I was contesting the statement that 250GB peak-time allowance is rubbish smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre FTTC 80/20 trial.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Sun 19-Aug-12 12:01:53
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Dozing off Zarjaz?

We can't all be as good as you Bob ! smile

Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Sun 19-Aug-12 12:06:47
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: PhotoFiend] [link to this post]
 
Interesting to hear where most of the problems come from...I guess BT is as helpless as anyone else if it's Openreach that's at fault.

TBF, most who come to these forums already have a problem, the majority with no issue simply don't need to seek help/opinion.
If you look through this board specifically, you'll see that most threads are about when the posters cabinet is to be upgraded.
Yes, this is an Openreach issue, but not an actual problem.

Standard User R0NSKI
(committed) Sun 19-Aug-12 12:13:48
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Re: To fibre or not to fibre - customer care is the question


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Last month I used 77GB, only 22GB of that was peak usage, the rest was off peak and did not count towards my 60GB allowance.

I schedule my cloud backup to run overnight, thus using the free usage, although it can take many days to back up at the moment, that will be resolved when I switch to fibre tomorrow. If I need to P2P then that is also scheduled overnight, all via my server.

I think the statement that 250GB is simply not enough in this day and age is simply ridiculous! The vast majority of users on Plus Net don't go any where near the limits, my younger brother gets by quite happily on his 10GB allowance whilst enjoying only paying £6.49 a month. I think 250GB is enough for the average punter for at least a few more years now.

Those who believe they need more can go elsewhere, I just renewed my contract for 18 months by applying for fibre smile

Edit:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
TBF, most who come to these forums already have a problem, the majority with no issue simply don't need to seek help/opinion.


I think that's true of any support forum, that's why you start to get a negative opinion of any ISP if you're reading their support forums, people very rarely post if they don't have a problem and are happy with the service.

Edited by R0NSKI (Sun 19-Aug-12 12:46:42)

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