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Anonymous
(Unregistered)Fri 31-Aug-12 17:32:16
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FTTC in Frome - promised 37mb, getting 8mb!


[link to this post]
 
So fibre has come to Frome. Yay! BT tests showed that my line was good for 37mbs. As it turned out it was only good for about 20mbs. And even then only for a day or so till it began to drop because of....don't know really. Instability?
It is now down to about 8mbs which is what I was getting with standard ADSL. Okay, my upload speeds are just shy of 5mbs which is nice and better than ADSL.
Engineers have been round about four times, changed modem, changed fillter, scratched their heads and told me that the copper tested okay, but that I was about a kilometre from the cabinet. SHould I just accept this? I really feeli dissapointed I can tell you. Is my ISP in breach of its obligations do you think? Its not BT btthe way, but they are using BT lines.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 31-Aug-12 18:00:25
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Re: FTTC in Frome - promised 37mb, getting 8mb!


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
There is no obligation to provide the speed suggested at signup - its not a promise, just a guide/estimate.

They may let you leave and exit contract without any penalty, but there is no way of forcing them to improve the line.

1km of copper line should manage 24 Meg as en estimate, but another 500m is dropping it closer to the speeds you are getting. So question is what makes you think line is a kilometre long.

I guess one question is how much of an improvement compared to ADSL/ADSl2+ is FTTC?

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User ixnay
(newbie) Fri 31-Aug-12 18:10:12
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Re: FTTC in Frome - promised 37mb, getting 8mb!


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Hi Andrew. I got that distance from an Openreach engineer who visited. The increase in upload speed is worth it, but not sure if it is an extra £30pm worth it.


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 31-Aug-12 18:11:35
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Re: FTTC in Frome - promised 37mb, getting 8mb!


[re: ixnay] [link to this post]
 
Try to negotiate a price reduction

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User ixnay
(newbie) Fri 31-Aug-12 20:05:29
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Re: FTTC in Frome - promised 37mb, getting 8mb!


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I don't think they will go for that. I have been a customer of theirs for nearly 10 years so it would be a shame to leave. But they are charging top rates for something that does not deliver so I may as well save myself £360pa by going elsewhere. I have written a rather stroppy letter, lets see how it pans out. They did however promise a 12mns throughput minimum so if that is not happening surely they are in breach of their terms and I can leave without penalty? Not a lawyer, but I bet they have their asses covered every which way.
Standard User ixnay
(newbie) Thu 13-Sep-12 18:14:17
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Re: FTTC in Frome - promised 37mb, getting 8mb!


[re: ixnay] [link to this post]
 
Well my speed has now gone down to 3.9mb. Upload speed is 4.9mb. BT are saying that this is because I have a long line. Yes, it is around 800m or so. But I know someone who is 400m from the cabinet and he is getting 39mb. 10 times as fast - half the distance. Do that figures actually stack up or are BT pulling my chain?
Standard User kasg
(experienced) Thu 13-Sep-12 20:38:21
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Re: FTTC in Frome - promised 37mb, getting 8mb!


[re: ixnay] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ixnay:
The increase in upload speed is worth it, but not sure if it is an extra £30pm worth it.

An extra £30 per month? That's £10 a month more than I pay in total!

Kevin

plusnet Extra Fibre (80/20)
Using OpenDNS
Domains and web hosting with TSOHOST

Edited by kasg (Thu 13-Sep-12 20:38:51)

Standard User kitcat
(member) Thu 13-Sep-12 20:59:03
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Re: FTTC in Frome - promised 37mb, getting 8mb!


[re: ixnay] [link to this post]
 
Sounds like you need to post some stats, some people have hacked the FTTC modem so that these can be seen. If your speed if dropping by that much it suggests that something is affecting your line or home network.

Are you using wireless, is your router plugged directly into the modem, have you taken all the other sockets out. is no-one else using BB when you test? (all the normal questions).

Try a reboot of the modem and then check again.

Does it drop around the same time of the day?

If the upload is around 4.9Mb it is unlikely to be the Line but may be interference affecting the DS frequency ranges.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 13-Sep-12 20:59:21
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Re: FTTC in Frome - promised 37mb, getting 8mb!


[re: ixnay] [link to this post]
 
No at 800m you would expect a lot more

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/guide/fibre-broadband....
28 Meg from our pessimistic estimate

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User ixnay
(newbie) Thu 13-Sep-12 22:24:51
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Re: FTTC in Frome - promised 37mb, getting 8mb!


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Check out the stats here. You can clearly see when the last engineer called after they had hooked me up onto a different pair from DP to cabinet.


Speedtest results

So I check speeds morning and evening. Have checked with all other equipment unplugged. Have checked also by connecting a PC direct to the VDSL modem and bypassing the router. Made no difference.
BT are just saying its a line length issue and the speed estimate they give is only an estimate.
I wish I was a lawyer.

Openreach say it is a line issue and that VDSL is more subject to noise and errors in old lines than ADSL was. When I had ADSL I was getting around 8mbs downloads and I am around 1.7km from the exchange.

Edited by ixnay (Thu 13-Sep-12 22:31:33)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 13-Sep-12 22:26:22
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Re: FTTC in Frome - promised 37mb, getting 8mb!


[re: ixnay] [link to this post]
 
Speedtests may be down to a problem with the ISP, needs the stats from the modem, which openreach and ISP can see, you can if you get your own modem, or hack the openreach one

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User chris6273
(committed) Thu 13-Sep-12 22:42:45
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Re: FTTC in Frome - promised 37mb, getting 8mb!


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I can see that you are contacting BT for your support so I presume you are with them.

It looks like a line issue - does your Openreach modem reboot/resync noticeably often?

I believe you should be getting more than 15Mbps otherwise Openreach (If its a line issue) are not providing you with the guaranteed bandwidth for the non-Faster Broadband FTTC package for lines which can achieve more than 15 meg (I presume you are on the Up to 80meg/40Meg package?)

If BT don't think your line can achieve more than 15 meg on FTTC they should be offering you BT Faster BB with fibre, so they must know it is capable of more than 15meg.

I'd be interested in the stats.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
My Broadband Speed Test

Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed: 24276 kbps 1211 kbps
Line Attenuation: 16.5 db 6.4 db
Noise Margin: 1.1 db 6.2 db

Edited by chris6273 (Thu 13-Sep-12 22:44:05)

Standard User ixnay
(newbie) Fri 14-Sep-12 12:49:06
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Re: FTTC in Frome - promised 37mb, getting 8mb!


[re: chris6273] [link to this post]
 
Hello Chris
I am not contacting BT direct but just quoting responses from them. I am dealing ISP and of course they should be able to get this resolved. However they are being messed around by Openreach as well so I am just doing some extra research so I have more ammo!
The modem did freeze occasionally and I had to reboot. It has been stable for a while now though.
I especially need to know what a line of that length should be capable of, and that has been answered. More tricky is where do I stand legally if I want to cancel the contract?
If ISP cannot resolve this with their wholesaler then I shall want to cancel and just go with a much cheaper option - may as well, the speeds cannot get any worse.
At present ISP says that if I cancel I am liable for charge, as they have already paid Openreach for the upgrade to my line. I reckon that should be entirely their problem and not mine.

Edited by ixnay (Fri 14-Sep-12 12:50:30)

Standard User greenglide
(committed) Fri 14-Sep-12 13:03:46
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Re: FTTC in Frome - promised 37mb, getting 8mb!


[re: ixnay] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ixnay:
If ISP cannot resolve this with their wholesaler then I shall want to cancel and just go with a much cheaper option - may as well, the speeds cannot get any worse.
At present ISP says that if I cancel I am liable for charge, as they have already paid Openreach for the upgrade to my line. I reckon that should be entirely their problem and not mine.


Unless you were promised a particular level of service from the ISP (which is most unlikely) then they will claim that they are fulfilling teir side of the contract.

BT Infinity 2 is only sold, in theory, to people who can get 15Mb/s down connection primarily to prevent slower lines from bringing down the average speed of the service - hence the lower grade service "faster BB with fibre".

The ISP pays the same amount to BTW irrespective of the speed at which you can connect so they don't have much room for manuoevre.

Are you certain the that line length you have quoted is correct - true line length rather than as the crow flies?

BT Infinity 2 - IP profile 77 / 20 - super fast!
Previously BE Unlimited - 21,000 Download 1,200 Upload but then moved house - 6,500 Down, 1Mb/s up - gutted!
Ex <n>ildram , been to SKY MAX - 15,225 Download
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 14-Sep-12 13:09:15
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Re: FTTC in Frome - promised 37mb, getting 8mb!


[re: greenglide] [link to this post]
 
Not strictly true on pricing for FTTC.

40/2 is cheaper than 40/10 which is a little cheaper than 80/20. Though offers usually negate the difference.

If line is under the 15 Meg sync limit from Openreach, then they may allow their side of contract to be closed no penalty. Negotiation and allowing them a chance to investigate and ensure it is a line length NOT just a bad joint problem is needed.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User ixnay
(newbie) Fri 14-Sep-12 13:29:08
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Re: FTTC in Frome - promised 37mb, getting 8mb!


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
The line length is an estimate bases on using Google maps distance measuring tool, so yeah it is more or less as the crow flies. But I added 100m to that to allow for wiggles and loops.
Just measured again and I reckon worse case scenario it is 980 metres.
What is upsetting is that I know there are two other fibre cabinets nearby, one at 500m and another at 400m. They have said though that there is no way to re patch to either of these.
Really this is like having your mail delivered from Yorkshire to London by jet, and then the rest of the way by horse.

Edited by ixnay (Fri 14-Sep-12 13:36:26)

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