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Standard User indigobanana
(newbie) Fri 28-Sep-12 20:26:04
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Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[link to this post]
 
Hey TBBers! I have been keeping a close eye on the (slow) progress of the superfast broadband BDUK project for Cumbria. Now that BT have won the bidding, I am suprised that there aren't more details around... does anyone know if this will be a similar rollout to the Cornwall project (Mostly FTTC/VDSL, a tiny bit of FTTP)? It's kind of frustrating to not be hearing many details at this stage.

I live in a small village - unfortunately my location is nearly 4km away from the exchange by road (LCORT). I manage between 3-4 Mbps downloads and 0.3 upload on a line with 54db attenuation. I run a business from home and the slow speeds, especially the upload speeds, make it painful at times.

When I heard BT had won the contract for improving the broadband throughout the county, I was cautiously optimistic that the situation may change... But when I did some research to see if I had a green cabinet nearby, the only one I could find was at the other side of the village (about 2km from my location by road). This is concerning! If BT decide to upgrade this area with FTTC, and I am connected to this cabinet, should I expect a big increase in speed? Or will BT perhaps use a different technology in this area?

Thanks, Jamie.
Standard User ccxo
(experienced) Sat 29-Sep-12 02:26:59
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: indigobanana] [link to this post]
 
It will be a while before any rollout plans are announced, most likely over the next few months or longer ie 2013 as Openreach will have to plan their deployment and meet with the Cumbria team to meet the targets of the project.

Most area's will have mainly FTTC with some FTTP where it is viable to deploy, wirless/Satellite will be used for the most remote parts, to met the 2Mbps min- very similar to Cornwall but with less funding overall.

What is your postcode as we may be able to find further cabinets near to you- but if your cabinet is 2km away then FTTC will be of not benefit to you as at that distance th VDSL signal drops off.
As for what technology is used-all depends on what Openreach plan and agree with the Cumbria team.

My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by ccxo (Sat 29-Sep-12 02:27:17)

Standard User omgFTTC
(learned) Sat 29-Sep-12 02:50:35
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: ccxo] [link to this post]
 
id like to throw a date out there, sept 2013


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Standard User indigobanana
(newbie) Sat 29-Sep-12 11:04:45
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: ccxo] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the info. My postcode is CA10 3XJ. There are plenty of terraced houses here, I'm kind of surprised I couldn't find a closer cab

Standard User gazter
(regular) Sat 29-Sep-12 16:03:04
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: indigobanana] [link to this post]
 
More information is likely to come at the beginning of next year about deployment and how BT are intending to meet the criteria of the bid.
Standard User WWWombat
(experienced) Sat 29-Sep-12 16:14:10
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: indigobanana] [link to this post]
 
2km is almost certainly not going to give you an FTTC solution - it seems that upstream would have died over that distance.

The Cornish scheme has quite a good website, and gives considerably better information about progress for each & every exchange. The kind of information that would be good for the standard rollout.

They have an animation that talks about the build, including aspects for FTTP, FTTC, EO, and BET. It seems likely that whatever technology is needed in Cumbria is already being trialled in Cornwall - so it is probably a good place to look.
Standard User indigobanana
(newbie) Sat 29-Sep-12 17:31:09
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
I hope the Connecting Cumbria website gets updated/redone at some point in the future, it's quite vague and hasn't been updated in a few months. Thanks, I saw the video - do you know if people have been getting FTTH in situations where FTTC won't work and they're far & not directly connected to the exchange? I think that's my only hope apart from Satellite (terrible ping) or BET (Ridiculous "solution"). Although I guess Superfast wireless wouldn't be so bad...

Edited by indigobanana (Sat 29-Sep-12 20:00:42)

Standard User WWWombat
(experienced) Sat 29-Sep-12 23:12:56
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: indigobanana] [link to this post]
 
I don't think many people have been getting FTTP. Not yet, anyway.

The product has gone live within BT, but has anyplace seen orders beyond the original trial areas, or the odd high-profile PR job (eg a company in Cornwall)? Anyplace with significant numbers?

Maybe we'll get more movement on this side in a year...
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 29-Sep-12 23:21:59
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: indigobanana] [link to this post]
 
That postcode isn't in the Dec 2011 spreadsheets, so can't help sorry.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.0/13.9Mbps @ 600m.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User indigobanana
(newbie) Sat 29-Sep-12 23:26:47
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I'm not suprised, the exchange only has about 650 connections! I don't think any exchanges (apart from Carlisle and some major towns, i.e. the commercially viable ones - Penrith, Kendal, Workington etc) have been announced yet.

Standard User WWWombat
(experienced) Sat 29-Sep-12 23:41:06
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: indigobanana] [link to this post]
 
A whole exchange with only 650 connections! Perhaps it isn't surprising that you can't find too many cabinets around.

I've always worked on the basis that a reasonably-full cabinet, and a good prospect for conversion to FTTC, was around 400 lines.
Standard User indigobanana
(newbie) Sun 30-Sep-12 00:09:22
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
It'll be interesting to see what BT decide to do, I'd say that the majority of exchanges in Cumbria have below 1000 connections, some with as few as 200, or less! There are so many villages, spread out all over the place. I noticed my exchange (wooden hut, quite literally) had a round white antenna, pointing towards a fell near Kendal, I always found that interesting, I guess BT must be using a microwave backhaul to the exchange. There is literally no fibre whatsoever around here!!

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/LCORT

Edited by indigobanana (Sun 30-Sep-12 00:34:51)

Standard User WWWombat
(experienced) Sun 30-Sep-12 01:39:21
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: indigobanana] [link to this post]
 
Was just looking at the population density for counties.

Interesting to see that Cumbria is the same as where I've just moved to - North Yorkshire - at 74 people per sq.km. Only lower place is Northumbria. I guess it is easy to see why they're pilot projects on BDUK.

What I didn't realise is that Cornwall is twice as dense (why did it get so much EU funding?) and that Surrey is 10 times as dense. Wow.

I noticed my exchange (wooden hut, quite literally) had a round white antenna, pointing towards a fell near Kendal, I always found that interesting, I guess BT must be using a microwave backhaul to the exchange.

Most small exchanges are really only concentrators, with traffic directed back to a main exchange.

I know BT are trialling a fibre-only exchange in Oxfordshire (Deddington), which has 1200 lines. It'll be interesting to see whether this leads on to a strategy for the small exchanges.
Standard User indigobanana
(newbie) Sun 30-Sep-12 14:18:46
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
I found an article yesterday

The councilís Connecting Cumbria project aims to supply speeds of 30Mbps to 90 per cent of homes and businesses.

BT will begin the roll out early next year with the mammoth project due for completion in 2014. In-cumbria reports that it is being funded by £40 million of Government and European money plus a further £30 million investment from BT.

Read more: http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/broadband/3401206/co...


Amazingly, this is the first time I have heard of the plan to bring 30Mbps to 90% of homes. I'm amazed to know how they are going to achieve this, considering that Superfast Cornwall has approximately double the population density of Cumbria and received much more funding. I'm guessing this is a much more challenging area to deploy superfast broadband!

Standard User ccxo
(experienced) Sun 30-Sep-12 15:15:43
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: indigobanana] [link to this post]
 
I assume this is the cabinet that you found- number 1

http://goo.gl/maps/fhU5m

Its doubtful that their will be more cabinets in Tebay- what Openreach can do is move the cabinet to the centre of the village which would benefit the whole area connected to that cabinet if it has FTTC deployed.

So its possible to get 30Mbps for about 90%, though we are going to have to wait and see what options are used.

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User kitcat
(member) Sun 30-Sep-12 16:51:08
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: indigobanana] [link to this post]
 
Looking at the map and geography, there are only two ways of getting much more than about 8Mb.
1. Providing an FTTP splitter to cater for about 30 customers out of about 40 properties.

2. Providing a mini FTTC cab.

I think the first is more cost effective as the splitter is unpowered and appears to be able to be fitted to a pole top, (Been done in Cornwall).

The cab seems to have too many additional costs.

It will be interesting to see what is finally offered, but I expect this to be late in the rollout, say early 2015, as all the rest of the infrastructure it will piggyback on will come first. ( Run back to a Headend in Kendal or Penrith I expect.)
Standard User indigobanana
(newbie) Sun 30-Sep-12 17:07:00
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ccxo:
I assume this is the cabinet that you found- number 1

http://goo.gl/maps/fhU5m

Its doubtful that their will be more cabinets in Tebay- what Openreach can do is move the cabinet to the centre of the village which would benefit the whole area connected to that cabinet if it has FTTC deployed.

So its possible to get 30Mbps for about 90%, though we are going to have to wait and see what options are used.


Yep, that's the cab.

In reply to a post by kitcat:
Looking at the map and geography, there are only two ways of getting much more than about 8Mb.
1. Providing an FTTP splitter to cater for about 30 customers out of about 40 properties.

2. Providing a mini FTTC cab.

I think the first is more cost effective as the splitter is unpowered and appears to be able to be fitted to a pole top, (Been done in Cornwall).

The cab seems to have too many additional costs.

It will be interesting to see what is finally offered, but I expect this to be late in the rollout, say early 2015, as all the rest of the infrastructure it will piggyback on will come first. ( Run back to a Headend in Kendal or Penrith I expect.)


This sounds promising... we'll have to wait and see to see how the rollout develops. I guess there is also the 3rd option of "Alternative Technologies" if they deem Fibre to be too expensive to rollout here, but I'm hoping that is not the case.

Edited by indigobanana (Sun 30-Sep-12 17:08:22)

Standard User indigobanana
(newbie) Sun 30-Sep-12 17:12:52
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
A whole exchange with only 650 connections! Perhaps it isn't surprising that you can't find too many cabinets around.

I've always worked on the basis that a reasonably-full cabinet, and a good prospect for conversion to FTTC, was around 400 lines.


You haven't seen the Buttermere Exchange yet...

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/LCBUT

25 connections (including businesses) for 1 exchange!!

Standard User bookey
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 30-Sep-12 17:42:16
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: indigobanana] [link to this post]
 
There are some fibre services out of Orton, they go to Tebay services...
IIRC the microwave relay from Orton hits then fells to a relay that passes the data to the Shap exchange, to get to Kendal you would need to pass it 'over' the fells.
(Has no affect on dialing codes)

Paul
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 30-Sep-12 17:43:45
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
In Cornwall it is the manifold (12 lines at the top of each FTTP pole in areas e.g. Falmouth)

The splitter (32 way) is on the pole at a more human height.

Numbers around 10,000 homes passed with FTTP, and 1000 have signed up. Given the lack of PR from providers generally that is pretty impressive

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User indigobanana
(newbie) Sun 30-Sep-12 18:30:26
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: bookey] [link to this post]
 
I'm sure the antenna is pointing towards Whinfell... I went biking up there a few years ago and saw 2 large BT Antennas, Kendal was in the LOS.

https://ssl.panoramio.com/photo/62857064 - The picture is not the best quality, but perhaps the signal is sent to the antenna in the background?

http://goo.gl/EeP7Z - Exchange on Street View, notice the brown antenna (apologies, I thought it was white from memory)

Standard User bookey
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 30-Sep-12 19:00:13
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: indigobanana] [link to this post]
 
Sorry last post was not clear, Orton <-> Whinfell <-> Shap <-> Fixed network to Penrith then on to the BT Core.

Paul
Standard User kitcat
(member) Sun 30-Sep-12 20:19:29
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the technical update. I had just heard "on poles"

Good to know 1 in ten take FTTP in Cornwall, that's slightly higher than FTTC nationally from the last Openreach news release, but to be expected as many have no option of Cable so poor BB speeds before.
Standard User kitcat
(member) Sun 30-Sep-12 20:33:02
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: bookey] [link to this post]
 
The microwave / radio will only provide 34Mb if they are going to give FTTC speeds they will need 100s Mb even just for 600 odd customers.

They will need to provide fibre to get the capacity.

I assume that they will extend the fibre from the motorway services up to and beyond Orton.

It will be a big planning job to get fibre the cheapest way to every exchange effectively.

It will be even bigger to do the same when they do Wales, I hope they have lots of learning from Cornwall to implement.
Standard User indigobanana
(newbie) Sun 30-Sep-12 20:41:59
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
.. is this why my throughput speed gets so low in the evening? (And even slower than normal during the day?) I always blamed TalkTalk. Most of the population of Orton can achieve in the region of 8 Mbps sync as they are closer to the exchange, and about half of Tebay can achieve about 4-6 Mbps or something and the rest above 3 Mbps apart from the far end of the village where I am, about 1-2 Mbps or so (due to poor internal setup configurations, ring wires etc). So if a lot of people are online, even though it is a small exchange and not many are connected, there is simply not enough backhaul capacity? 34Mb doesn't seem like much at all.

Standard User WWWombat
(experienced) Sun 30-Sep-12 23:57:32
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: indigobanana] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by indigobanana:
This sounds promising... we'll have to wait and see to see how the rollout develops. I guess there is also the 3rd option of "Alternative Technologies" if they deem Fibre to be too expensive to rollout here, but I'm hoping that is not the case.

Are you fed by poles, or underground? From the cabinet, or direct from the exchange?

I'd have thought rural fibre is a tad more likely when on existing poles.

The post on provision in North Yorkshire is probably interesting to you. especially the commitment (there) to do 100% of EO lines with some form of fibre, and the statement that satellite is very much last resort.

I take the latter to imply that it is a solution for isolated homes & farms, not for whole villages.
Standard User indigobanana
(newbie) Mon 01-Oct-12 14:40:18
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
Fed from shared pole, as far as I know from the Cab in Old Tebay nearly 2km away. (Number 1) There are approx 60 terraced houses at this part of the village, the old railway terraces, so lots of copper wire around. There is actually a gap between here and the main part of the village.

That statement looks very interesting, although I doubt I am on an EO line. However, I have been doing some research using Google Street View and plotting some cabinets on a Google Map. The lack of cabinets in many areas (as far as can tell) is very interesting, it seems there are many EO lines here in rural Cumbria. And if BT have "commited" to upgrade these lines to fibre, that would be an absolutely massive undertaking.

Standard User indigobanana
(learned) Tue 11-Jun-13 18:06:18
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband *DELETED*


[re: indigobanana] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by indigobanana

Edited by indigobanana (Tue 11-Jun-13 18:07:43)

Standard User indigobanana
(learned) Tue 11-Jun-13 18:13:25
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: indigobanana] [link to this post]
 
So... we're into June and there has been endless delays.... however I heard that they finally got EU major project approval last month. But STILL no kind of rollout plan has been released. Not even any indication of which exchanges are under evaluation! And I'm sure I read that they had begun planning early this year. (Not forgetting that the contract was awarded to BT in December last year!). Maybe I couldn't find a document somewhere?? And not even mentioning the Connecting Cumbria website (which I'm sure they said they would relaunch by the end of last month). The lastest monthly newsletter was released in February.... I just wish they would release some kind of information, like most other projects around the UK! Why keep everyone in the dark like this?

My Broadband Speed Test

Now with PlusNet!

20CN ADSL Max frown
I live in hope...
Standard User zom22
(learned) Tue 11-Jun-13 18:54:53
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: indigobanana] [link to this post]
 
If they do announce something and put a date on it happening they create a "hostage to fortune" situation.

When they fail to meet the date because of all sorts of multi-agency problems/issues whatever, many of which will be totally outside their control everyone goes batsheet crazy and accuses them of being a load of incompetant idiots.
Posters on this forum are equally to blame, you see them screaming online "my cabinet has been put back again - it's outrageous".

So If I was BT/local councils I'd say nothing whatsoever of any form at all and simply say it will be done when it is done.

Yours additionally had to have special EU approval as the project is so large - so go and blame the EU regulations for that. Actually you can blame the EU totally for making the UK go through the BDUK tender process rather than simply getting on with it and pay BT to do it up front with government money.

Additionally local councils tend to have more important things to worry about than broadband............it really is genuinely not at the top of their priority list. My own council supposedly have not even signed yet - its is still being discussed.
Standard User ccxo
(experienced) Tue 11-Jun-13 21:18:36
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: zom22] [link to this post]
 
Most of the teams are very small with staff only working part time on the process- only the project manager thats full time.

All of the councils are in a queue, openreach can only respond to 4 a month, so its going to take a while for them to get through all the tenders.

Orange BB 5856/448
Standard User indigobanana
(learned) Thu 13-Jun-13 14:09:38
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: ccxo] [link to this post]
 
Hallelujah!

Cumbria Rollout Plan

My Broadband Speed Test

Now with PlusNet!

20CN ADSL Max frown
I live in hope...
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 13-Jun-13 18:32:56
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: indigobanana] [link to this post]
 
I like that you'll get percentage coverage and postcode information online.
Standard User indigobanana
(learned) Sat 12-Apr-14 16:21:01
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
I like that you'll get percentage coverage and postcode information online.


Here we are almost a year later with the rollout underway and this postcode coverage information is yet to materialize. All I know is that my exchange is due to be upgraded sometime before the end of this year - which is one piece of good news as it was originally scheduled for end of 2015. But which areas? I have no clue! And I'm really hoping for FTTP or some other solution because this side of the village is nearly 2km from the cab. (At least there are a good 90 properties or so here - and according to Samknows, the exchange is earmarked for FTTC and also FTTP) - http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/LCORT

I even sent out a straightfoward email to Connecting Cumbria asking if my address/postcode was in an area of planned intervention and received this reply (emphasis mine) -

Thank you for your email.

The most up to date information on our project is available through our website which is updated every 3 months the following 6 months planned deployment - http://www.connectingcumbria.org.uk/when-and-where. There is information on each exchange area, a post code checker and a line checker. Information is not held at a property and/or cabinet level. Most exchanges when enabled will still have work ongoing to end of 2015 to ensure superfast broadband reaches as many properties as possible.

We are also tweeting when new cabinets are live and a list of live cabinets is held on our website - http://www.connectingcumbria.org.uk/media/550529/Liv...

Upon your exchange being live, you will have to speak to an internet service provider (ISP) to see if superfast broadband is available to you. Not all ISPís will offer a service but we have a list available on our website that maybe worth contacting - http://www.connectingcumbria.org.uk/broadband-providers

As we are unable to expand on the information available through the links above I hope you understand why we will not enter into further correspondence on this matter.


All I know is, there's plenty of other BDUK projects out there which are giving much more information and updating their sites more than once every 3 months...

My Broadband Speed Test

Now with PlusNet!

20CN ADSL Max frown
I live in hope...
Standard User indigobanana
(learned) Mon 14-Apr-14 14:11:45
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Re: Cumbria Superfast Broadband


[re: indigobanana] [link to this post]
 
Only in Cumbria!

https://twitter.com/LibbyBateman/status/453946519574...

Photo Credit Libby Bateman, Fell End Broadband.

My Broadband Speed Test

Now with PlusNet!

20CN ADSL Max frown
I live in hope...
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