Angry with Openreach over FTTC row

I just got email from Openreach and explained why is my telephone exchange isn't FTTC choice yet and I can't believe what it say below:

On 28 September 2012 16:55, <[email protected]> wrote:

Dear Mr ********

Thank you for your communication to NGA enquiries about the availability of Fibre Broadband at Cuckoo Oak exchange.

I am extremely sorry to inform you, that the upgrade of Cuckoo Oak exchange at this time, falls outside of our current upgrade footprint.

However, the Welsh government has announced plans to roll out fibre broadband as part of its own initiative.

This is being rolled-out with Openreach, and all enquiries must go to the Welsh government.

In the coming weeks and months a help-line will be set up for Welsh resident enquiries. In the meantime,

Information about the project can be obtained from the Welsh Government web-site.

http://wales.gov.uk/topics/businessa.../ngbw/?lang=en





Regards

Peter Wilde

N.I. Customer engagement

Email [email protected]

And I had reply to him below:

Dear Peter,

Cuckoo Oak is NOT in Wales. It in Shropshire (Telford & Wrekin Council) in West Midlands but why is Dawley and Stirchley (3 miles away from Cuckoo Oak) is already enabled. Doesn't make any sense to me. There is also other area in Telford had FTTC are: Donnington, Newport, Oakengates, and Wellington.

Regards

Mr ********


So, what u think folks ? It so annoying and very disappointed.

May be he is using the iPhone 5 Map App On a more serious note uncomprehensible!

lol, he probably is!

Why should you be in the 2/3rds? What is special about that area compared to another area?
Some would suggest the presence of Virgin Media in the area means no real need to rush to provide FTTC

The country error does seem very bad, a polite reply pointing out the error, rather than a rant might be an idea

Mr Saffron,

I appreciate your comments, and I am sure that you already have FTTC in your area. However, in MY area, the Virgin Media connectivity is an absolute joke, with so many drop-offs and disconnections (I've lost so many counts and lost count of how many phone calls to Virgin Media engineers, too). Which is why I think it is appropriate to "complain" that OpenReach isn't even considering Cuckoo Oak, when its neighbouring exchange, Dawley & Stirchley, gets the benefits? Geographically (number of houses per sq.mile), we're very similiar. I left virgin media to join plusnet on ADSL2+ at present, waiting for FTTC,

Regards

Adslmax

Eg:

Cuckoo Oak had more connection than Dawley exchange:

Dawley: Serves (approx): 6,965 residential premises
270 non-residential premises http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/WNDAW

Cuckoo Oak: Serves (approx): 7,431 residential premises
459 non-residential premises http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/WNCKO

Can you explain that anamoly, Mr. Saffron?

Edited by adslmax (Sat 29-Sep-12 00:06:07)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Can you explain that anamoly, Mr. Saffron?

It would appear that BT don't consider Cuckoo Oak to be currently commercially viable. Is that so hard to understand? You complain yet you have access to VM which is more than many others users.

Many, including many thousands on much larger exchanges than yourself, have access to neither VM nor BT's FTTC/FTTP. For example, I'm on the Vauxhall exchange in central London, 22,750 residential premises, yet I have no access to either VM or FTTC/FTTP. The reason? Despite being over 2km from the exchange all of the lines on my late 1980s development are Exchange Only and with 75 units the development is too small for BT to consider installing a local PCP cab and an FTTC twin.

Looking at the wider area- Openreach are enabling 2 exchanges for FTTC near Telford for 2013- Openreach also has 3 exchanges its enabling in Wolverhampton- with a further 5 with 2013 dates.

Once that work has been completed it will leave 2 exchanges left in Telford that are not currently part of the rollout- Cuckoo Oak being one of them, just have to wait till Openreach announce the next set of exchanges- they cannot be everywhere at once.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Which is why I think it is appropriate to "complain" that OpenReach isn't even considering Cuckoo Oak, when its neighbouring exchange, Dawley & Stirchley, gets the benefits? Geographically (number of houses per sq.mile), we're very similiar.

Eg:

Cuckoo Oak had more connection than Dawley exchange:

Dawley: Serves (approx): 6,965 residential premises
270 non-residential premises http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/WNDAW

Cuckoo Oak: Serves (approx): 7,431 residential premises
459 non-residential premises http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/WNCKO

Can you explain that anamoly, Mr. Saffron?

As others have said - some exchanges have been determined as viable, others not (and the same at individual cabinet level).

When this happens, there will be neighbouring exchanges in *exactly* your situation - where one is converted, and the other is not. It might be a fair question to ask Why, but not necessarily to rant about. It will happen *everywhere*.

In terms of numbers, you might be similar. Geographically, you might be similar. Or perhaps Dawley has a split between dense & sparse areas, while you are more evenly spread. Topographically, you might be dissimilar. Demographically, you might be dissimilar - perhaps they predict a smaller take-up in your area. The competition might be different. The exchange building might have different problems to overcome. There might be significantly more problems in getting power to more of the cabinets. There are many factors.

You might find that, based on BT's profitability criteria, your neighbouring exchange just squeaks over by 0.1%, while your exchange just falls under by 0.1%.

Now think about those BT criteria on profitability. Right now, in the presence of possible BDUK funding subsidies, you won't find BT "bending the rules" on the concept of profitability. The EU has to OK the concept of government subsidies, and BT will need to prove its numbers - and it won't be able to do so when it is "fudging" in some places. If anything, BDUK will have made BT be *more* clinical about its decisions.

If your exchange is indeed very similar, then it is either unannounced yet (unlikely - even BT says they've announced almost all the commercially-viable exchanges now) or it is likely to be in the set that gets announced as BDUK funding comes in. It might not be BT that gets the BDUK funding, but the council would (presumably) make sure the funding went to exchange areas being left out.

Unless, of course, Cuckoo Oak is being caught up in the Telford & Wrekin withdrawal from BDUK funding. In which case you are being affected by BDUK being around, but get no advantage. Perhaps the council is the best place to complain to?

There are also factors like how many people in an area actually have a BT line as opposed to a Virgin one.

It could be that the exchange lines are similar but in the town that is being upgraded had more BT lines in use that the other.

There will have been quite a complicated cost/benefit analysis performed with all sorts of criteria thrown in not just line numbers.

If the numbers don't add up then your not in the rollout easy at that.

Of course had the government had just given OR £800million like they asked they would have rolled out FTTC to a lot more of the country.

So perhaps blaming the curent governemt for setting up the BDUK rather than paying somebody to do the job is also in hand.

In reply to a post by MCM:

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Can you explain that anamoly, Mr. Saffron?

It would appear that BT don't consider Cuckoo Oak to be currently commercially viable. Is that so hard to understand? You complain yet you have access to VM which is more than many others users.

Many, including many thousands on much larger exchanges than yourself, have access to neither VM nor BT's FTTC/FTTP. For example, I'm on the Vauxhall exchange in central London, 22,750 residential premises, yet I have no access to either VM or FTTC/FTTP. The reason? Despite being over 2km from the exchange all of the lines on my late 1980s development are Exchange Only and with 75 units the development is too small for BT to consider installing a local PCP cab and an FTTC twin.

What is commercially viable? seems the amount of people connected has no baring. I thought it would have.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

So, what u think folks ? It so annoying and very disappointed.

At least you've got a better chance of getting it when they DO decide it is viable.

Consider the people who were in the early stages of rollouts years ago where BT have decided a specific cab isn't viable yet few minutes walk down the road, everyone can get it!

Matt

In reply to a post by uno:

At least you've got a better chance of getting it when they DO decide it is viable.

Consider the people who were in the early stages of rollouts years ago where BT have decided a specific cab isn't viable yet few minutes walk down the road, everyone can get it!

When BT get to expand from 67% to 90% (assuming they do end up with all the BDUK funding), my guess is that half of the improvement will come from infill of extra cabinets within the existing market 3 and 2 exchanges.

The BDUK subsidy will start to make *those* cabinets viable more readily than whole market 1 exchanges. In fact, this aspect might be a key component that gives BT advantage in the BDUK bids - because those cabinets will be really expensive for a new company to deal with.

It'll be an easy win for BT to do that yes, but it wouldn't surprise me if some of these cabs that have been left out still stand there for a fair while even after the BDUK cash is being spent.

Matt

However, in MY area, the Virgin Media connectivity is an absolute joke, with so many drop-offs and disconnections (I've lost so many counts and lost count of how many phone calls to Virgin Media engineers, too). Which is why I think it is appropriate to "complain" that OpenReach isn't even considering Cuckoo Oak,

So the basis of your complaint is with Virgin, if they were able to provide the service you feel you deserve, then the whole Openreach thing wouldn't be an issue. Again, Virgin don't provide service everywhere, but the number of complaints seen on here is negligible. Surely you need to change the subject title of your thread ?

You don't seem to be happy with any ISP, i remember the time when you was changing almost every month.

I do know how you feel I live on an housing estate with ok but not great broadband (ie not good enough to stream an hd movie and do something else on the net, but I can do one or the other). I would love fibre and although my exchange is updated my cabinet on my part of the estate isnt yet frustratingly a cabinet on another part of the estate is. so even less than a mile apart one part has fibre and one doesnt.

Why are you angry? Frustrated, yes, but why angry?

It's not BTor's fault that you live where you live and I doubt it's BTor's fault that your exchange is not financially viable. It's nothing personal. Just a commercial decision that in that case is not in your favour.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

..in MY area, the Virgin Media connectivity is an absolute joke, with so many drop-offs and disconnections (I've lost so many counts and lost count of how many phone calls to Virgin Media engineers, too).

Maybe try and be positive about it, Could you help solve those VM problems? Meticulously document all the faults, their nature and cause, etc, keep OFCOM informed, etc.

According to a recent report from OFCOM, Virgin Media has consistently had one of the lowest levels of complaints of all major ISPs. [1] Are these problems unique to your area? If so, why? The cable infrastructure in Telford should be easy to maintain and repair, it being a modern town, sensible street layouts, purpose-built ducting, etc.

cheers, a

[1] http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/research/t...

Edited by deleted (Sat 06-Oct-12 14:13:06)

Asldmax exchnages are subject to strict commercial criteria and include a number of factors which make up the decision to critera it include in footprint or exclude

intereseting no oyther commercial operaor is either so pershap that might tell you something

When will people learn?
1) First thing I do when considering a property is to do a broadband check. I get my ISP to help as well.
2) When selling, I list my BB speeds.

I will not move to a house without a decent BB. My wife is even on-board with this one as she knows what I am like* with rubbish BB speeds.

*This has been years in the making...not been easy . "No Eastenders on iPlayer" helped too.

DrT

The vast majority of people move house extremely rarely. I believe Max has been at his current address for several years, as I remember him telling us how wonderful his VM connection was, compared to his fun and games with every Entanet reseller here. (And there were more then). SUddenly, after a long time, we found him back - on Plusnet, and is now slagging off VM .

He frequently migrated ISP at 5 or 6 week intervals, sometimes returning to one later. One slow speed test and he got a MAC, and used it.

It was quite a soap.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

He frequently migrated ISP at 5 or 6 week intervals, sometimes returning to one later. One slow speed test and he got a MAC, and used it.

It was quite a soap.

Indeed, i remember it well ,a few years a go he went with all the Entanet resellers then slagged them off within a few days. To the point they started to refuse to have him as a customer. He accused one who refused him that he would invoke the disability act on them

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

It was quite a soap.

Aye, it brings back memories...

DrT

Finally at last BT did me a favour, bringing FTTC to Cuckoo Oak by Spring 2014 (I can see BTO vans around my area lately marked the road)

Can't wait to switch from Plusnet ADSL2+ to Plusnet FTTC

By the way did you all aware I am with Plusnet since 2010, the longest I ever had with this isp (still happy with it) so, it won't be any more mac code or swap isp again. Plusnet are the best so far.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The vast majority of people move house extremely rarely. I believe Max has been at his current address for several years, as I remember him telling us how wonderful his VM connection was, compared to his fun and games with every Entanet reseller here. (And there were more then). SUddenly, after a long time, we found him back - on Plusnet, and is now slagging off VM .

He frequently migrated ISP at 5 or 6 week intervals, sometimes returning to one later. One slow speed test and he got a MAC, and used it.

It was quite a soap.

not anymore! Still with plusnet since 2010 and no plan to leave them.

Bad latency in that reply Max .

I should voted the worst isp swapper of the year!

Yup, excellent news that Cuckoo Oak is getting upgraded at some point. I'll be ordering the moment it's available!

Ah this thread is going downhills.......

ROFL
_{Your memory is having fun.}

In reply to a post by stevebrowne:

Yup, excellent news that Cuckoo Oak is getting upgraded at some point. I'll be ordering the moment it's available!

And me too ! But, we have to wait and see because most area could miss out cabient in most place, hope we got the nicer BT FTTC green box by our area!, if not, unlucky grrrrrr!

Telford & Wrekin Council say it want the whole Telford to gain 90% FTTC by 2015, so look like it will be early by 2014.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

In reply to a post by stevebrowne:

Yup, excellent news that Cuckoo Oak is getting upgraded at some point. I'll be ordering the moment it's available!

And me too ! But, we have to wait and see because most area could miss out cabient in most place, hope we got the nicer BT FTTC green box by our area!, if not, unlucky grrrrrr!

Telford & Wrekin Council say it want the whole Telford to gain 90% FTTC by 2015, so look like it will be early by 2014.

Given Virgin Media cover that area if they used public funds for 90% FTTC from Openreach there would be some questions to answer.

I went to Wellington Grammar School. It's now an Academy I think.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I went to Wellington Grammar School. It's now an Academy I think.

I don't care what u think of my awful grammar english because I am disability. You ought to respect more.

Nothing was furher from my mind Max. I was genuinely being sociable about going to school in what is now a part of Telford, with you living in the area.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I went to Wellington Grammar School. It's now an Academy I think.

It is my friend.

In reply to a post by warweezil:

Ah this thread is going downhills.......

Fear not, Donald Donaldson will arrive soon

Spill the bean