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Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Fri 05-Oct-12 04:18:14
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Re: Interleaving on FTTC lines


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
As for my Cisco 887VA, I sold it. I don't have to justify my reasons why. Perhaps it's best that I avoid any further participation on forums with any information I find and share, in future.

Thanks for your reply.

If you unable to take criticism or partake in valid discussion your withdrawal is probably for the best.

DrT

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Fri 05-Oct-12 08:14:54
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Re: Interleaving on FTTC lines


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tommy45:
But the point remains the bill paying customer should be given the choice of what they want ,is that really asking too much, considering that VDSL is supposed to be the future?


I see your point - but its to a price. Adding more options (and more complex options such as interleave) complicates the product. Its possible in a few years when the rollout is complete that Openreach may offer more choices. Who knows.

There is still choice if you have money, as there always was, with "leased lines" - or EFM products.

James BT Infinity 2 19/09/2012 - Estimate 44.6/6.5 - Install 52/12 - Actual 46 / 8 Mbps
13 years of broadband - ntl:(512k/1M)/BTbusiness(2M)/Metronet(2M)/Bulldog(8M/16M)/BE(16M)/BT FTTC(50M)
Standard User Ixel
(member) Fri 05-Oct-12 09:02:22
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Re: Interleaving on FTTC lines


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by DrTeeth:
If you unable to take criticism or partake in valid discussion your withdrawal is probably for the best.

DrT


Thanks, but I wasn't actually replying to you. If you wish to discuss further on the topic though please keep it to a PM, and not drag this thread off-topic further. Criticism I can take, but when people ignore some proof and still criticise as if I never had submitted any proof is a bit idiotic. I feel as if I'm being treated as either untrusted or that I don't know what I'm doing. If anyone else wishes to pick at my previous reply then please, don't reply on this thread, send me a PM instead, thanks smile.

In reply to a post by jchamier:
I see your point - but its to a price. Adding more options (and more complex options such as interleave) complicates the product. Its possible in a few years when the rollout is complete that Openreach may offer more choices. Who knows.

There is still choice if you have money, as there always was, with "leased lines" - or EFM products.


I agree. But people who pay and accept responsibility should be given the option to override some of the line profile settings at their own risk (for example, requesting a fixed cap in order to increase SNRM which in turn would reduce ES (error seconds) and perhaps eventually influence DLM to remove interleaving. That's one thing I liked when I was with BE. Like the first ADSL rollout, options were limited and engineers were coming out to install and activate your service, and FTTC is no different really. Given time I imagine it will become more flexible and self-install.


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Standard User kasg
(experienced) Fri 05-Oct-12 09:21:41
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Re: Interleaving on FTTC lines


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
On ADSL the latency increase could be 5ms or even more with interleaving. I've read here that on VDSL the difference is 1ms or less.

It varies. Without interleaving my pings are around 10ms, with interleaving, around 20ms.

Kevin

plusnet Extra Fibre (80/20)
Using OpenDNS
Domains and web hosting with TSOHOST

Edited by kasg (Fri 05-Oct-12 09:22:16)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 05-Oct-12 09:25:18
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Re: Interleaving on FTTC lines


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
Like the first ADSL rollout, options were limited and engineers were coming out to install and activate your service, and FTTC is no different really. Given time I imagine it will become more flexible and self-install.
See Section 2.4. There seems to be no expectation however of all lines being preconnected at the cabinet, so an enginer visit for that will be necessary for initial install. (Just like it is for ADSLx at the exchange).

There is also the following in Section 3.2.2:-
Note : It is the DLM system that sets the line profile, and this should not be interfered with by CPs/users setting rates, SNR margins etc. at the modem.


My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.0/13.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User Ixel
(member) Fri 05-Oct-12 11:41:33
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Re: Interleaving on FTTC lines


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Yes, but what I meant by self-install is that the engineer will not need to turn up at the premises, just the cabinet.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Fri 05-Oct-12 11:55:19
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Re: Interleaving on FTTC lines


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
In reply to a post by DrTeeth:
If you unable to take criticism or partake in valid discussion your withdrawal is probably for the best.

DrT


Thanks, but I wasn't actually replying to you. If you wish to discuss further on the topic though please keep it to a PM, and not drag this thread off-topic further. Criticism I can take, but when people ignore some proof and still criticise as if I never had submitted any proof is a bit idiotic. I feel as if I'm being treated as either untrusted or that I don't know what I'm doing. If anyone else wishes to pick at my previous reply then please, don't reply on this thread, send me a PM instead, thanks smile.
You seem at least surprised that people don't believe your claims to have had every VDSL2 modem/router under the sun. This isn't helped by your sudden desire to move the discussion to PM. I think valid concerns have been raised and if you do indeed have experience of all these devices, then that is very valuable and worthy of further exploration.

Am I right in thinking you're now using the supplied Openreach modem? And if so, is it unlocked and has it been modified from the default configuration?


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Standard User Ixel
(member) Fri 05-Oct-12 12:21:36
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Re: Interleaving on FTTC lines


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
I just thought it would be better to keep any debates from possibly overwhelming this thread. I don't mind if people think I'm lieing or what not, that's their opinion and I openly accept that. If most people feel the information I'm sharing is just lies then I will happily keep future findings to myself.

Anyway, yes, I am now using the HG612 as a modem again, with the Fritz!Box 7390 connected to it as a router. The HG612 is unlocked, QoS disabled, firewall disabled, backdoor 301 connection disabled, and I am using the graph scripts to monitor the connection.

I feel the HG612 handles the connection stability better than the FB7390 and it does actually attain a slightly higher rate. I am having a few issues with my FB at the moment which is another reason for this switch back, things such as ghost calls, or when I end a landline call my phone rings again with nobody there, also crashes every few days. I am using the latest firmware too.
Standard User kitcat
(member) Fri 05-Oct-12 12:36:32
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Re: Interleaving on FTTC lines


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
RobertoS

The SIN link was a very interesting read.

Gives a very detailed view of the 'mechanics' of the whole FTTC system and the potentials for ISP and users to affect their own service if they try to stream more than the prioritised rate.

Also the effects of setting packet size differently.

I'm sure Batboy and others will find it a worthwhile read as well.

The parts about self install ISP modems makes you think the Openreach modem install actually looks quite neat and reasonable. Although I can understand those that think they could optimise it better for themselves and also the potenitals to mess it up.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 05-Oct-12 13:07:01
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Re: Interleaving on FTTC lines


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
Yes, but what I meant by self-install is that the engineer will not need to turn up at the premises, just the cabinet.
Which is what that SIN covers smile. Just not available for ISPs to order yet.

Then there is the problem of finding suitable modems or modem/routers. The ones "illegitimately" used by some people all appear to have drawbacks of one kind or other, as well as their advantages.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.0/13.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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