In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Then there is the problem of finding suitable modems or modem/routers. The ones "illegitimately" used

The BT VDSL Line Interface Network Termination Point (NTP) is clearly shown to be before the modem in Figure 4 on page 15.

There are no devices other than the OR modems licensed/approved for connection to the Openreach VDSL2 supply from the cabinet.

You are as well aware as I of the specification required for that approval, which will not be relevant anyway until the VDSL2 system is opened to third-party modem connection.

Specifically,the first three paragraphs of Section 2.4 of this SIN. All SINs being primarily for CP information.

The contract for the supply is between the CP and Openreach. As such, Openreach are no doubt empowered in that contract to remove service from a line with equipment they have not themselves tested for compliance, if they become aware of such equipment being used. The SIN in itself is not part of any contract, so the absence in it of a ban on other equipment is not indicative of permission.

The seeming absence of any stipulation about this at the moment by ISPs to their end users is a matter between them and the user if service is withdrawn by Openreach. I accept this eventuality is highly unlikely.

I submit you already fully understood this, and think you are just playing games of no benefit whatsoever to other forum users looking for realistic advice on what they can and cannot do.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

There are no devices other than the OR modems licensed/approved for connection to the Openreach VDSL2 supply from the cabinet.

You are as well aware as I of the specification required for that approval, which will not be relevant anyway until the VDSL2 system is opened to third-party modem connection.

Specifically,the first three paragraphs of Section 2.4 of this SIN. All SINs being primarily for CP information.

That is for the "CP provided modem Product Variant" which isn't available yet. The figure I pointed to is for the currently available "Openreach Provided modem Product Variant" and clearly shows where the Network Termination Point is, which is before the modem. There is no requirement to use the Openreach Provided modem stated in that SIN.

You miss the point. The position of the demarcation point is irrelevant.

It is not permissible to connect non-BT-certified equipment to the network. Period. Always has been. Quite independent of broadband.

Go look at any phone handset available from reputable shops. All have certification.

If you can show that the equipment currently in use by some here, to replace the OR modem, has OR certification, then I agree with you it should be OK to attach.

What certification?

The SIN is simplistically a technical description. The contractual T&C's of the service can be different.

The BTW contract says:

A VDSL2 modem will be supplied and connected to the data port of the service specific front plate. [...] The active NTE must be within reach of a power supply, and must remain connected to the power and data port of the service specific front plate at all times.

and

The Openreach physical network demarcation point within the End User’s premises is the NTE5 although Openreach will also install and maintain the active NTE.

How strictly it is enforced or whether the ISP passes this requirement on to the End User is another matter, but the contractual obligation exists.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

What certification?

I was wondering that. I remember the green sticker things years ago but I though that was dropped. None of my phones have any mention of BT certification anywhere on the phone, base station or documentation.

I've worked it out now. It was the old BABT thing which is now TUV Sud certification.

Now the CE certification which comes under the TUV Sud certification means that a product meets all applicable EU directives so that means that my BiPAC 8200N which has the CE mark is certified to be used on a BT VDSL2 connection.

I agree, I think it's the CE mark too.

Edited by BatBoy (Fri 05-Oct-12 17:43:13)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

It is not permissible to connect non-BT-certified equipment to the network. Period. Always has been. Quite independent of broadband.

Wrong. It was never BT it was BABT (which is now part of Ofcom). It cannot be the operator certifying what is essentially a safety discussion - especially when the point of privatising BT was to allow competition.

Go look at any phone handset available from reputable shops. All have certification.

I believe BABT approval marks gone (green circle and the red triangle) - essentially replaced by the EU's CE mark, due to single market rules. BABT still exists as an organisation and is owned by the Germans according to wikipedia.

Even a BT branded telephone I have the box for here doesn't visibly have the green circle anymore - the unit itself has a CE mark on the base.

Edited by jchamier (Fri 05-Oct-12 17:58:07)