General Discussion
  >> Fibre Broadband


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | [3] | 4 | 5 | 6 | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User WWWombat
(experienced) Tue 09-Oct-12 22:49:51
Print Post

Re: Listening for fans in FTTC cabinets


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
No idea if it is a 96-line cab. But that is the model number quoted in the planning app.

It was Sussex, so I imagine there isn't outside funding yet.
Standard User asbokid
(member) Tue 09-Oct-12 23:10:24
Print Post

Re: Listening for fans in FTTC cabinets


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
No idea if it is a 96-line cab. But that is the model number quoted in the planning app.

It was Sussex, so I imagine there isn't outside funding yet.


The plans describe obsolete equipment. Although for planning purposes it has no relevance to the external appearance, nor the noise levels.

Huawei's smaller DSLAM, the SmartAX MA5616, has four slots for subscriber line cards. In the first generation of VDSL2 linecards for the MA5616, each card provided only 16 ports albeit with VDSL profiles up to 30MHz. Those linecards were the VDGE.

Then with new controller firmware, the port density increased to 24 VDSL2 ports per card. That was the VDSE card. With four slots for linecards that means 96 lines in total per DSLAM. (as described in the planning application).

Next generation - which is what BT is using at the moment, so far as I know, has 32 VDSL2 ports per card (up to 17MHz profiles). Two different 32-port cards are available at this density. Cards with and without integrated filters. These are the VDLE and the VDSH. BT uses the VDSH, sfaik. So the maximum line capacity of a DSLAM with four of those cards is 128 lines.

There's yet another generation of Huawei linecard with even higher port density. BT may be using them by now in more concentrated areas? However, those linecards requires a new generation of DSLAM Central Controller Unit - the CCUC revision instead of the earlier CCUB. This higher density VDSL linecard, codenamed the VDMM, supports 48 subscriber lines @ 17MHz.

So currently, in total up to 192 VDSL2 lines can be run out of a single Huawei MA5616 DSLAM, a device which is no bigger than a church bible!

The larger DSLAMs in the MA56xx family are basically two, four or more DSLAMs rolled into one, with four linecards being driven by separate CPUs, each with 32-bit e300 PPC cores.

All that said, maybe BT is using up its old kit in low population density areas?

cheers, a
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Wed 10-Oct-12 12:04:35
Print Post

Re: Listening for fans in FTTC cabinets


[re: asbokid] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by asbokid:
All that said, maybe BT is using up its old kit in low population density areas?

cheers, a


Which in turn begs the question of why this area, with relatively low population density, is viable for FTTC construction while many more densely populated areas with more lines on the PCP are not.

I suspect it's something to do with the veritable mansions served by this cabinet and who lives in them.

http://goo.gl/maps/CMQ9L

I make approximately 160 premises passed by this PCP, BT assume a 20% uptake and Liv Garfield is quoted as saying that the top end of the take up so far is around the 30% mark. Accepting that there's a very small business park with some 'addresses' having multiple occupants I doubt there's more than ~200 lines on the cabinet, it's 2.11km from the exchange, line attenuation is implied at 55+dB going by the BT Wholesale checker implying a 4+km fibre spine route.

A purely commercial roll out, each cabinet assessed in isolation based purely on expected pay back. Hmm. smile


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User asbokid
(member) Wed 10-Oct-12 23:27:17
Print Post

Re: Listening for fans in FTTC cabinets


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Back in the '90s, we lived in a rural village with no natural gas (although you could often smell it from all the leaks!)

According to British Gas (BG) it wasn't economically viable to extend the main to serve us. So for years we depended on OFCH (and the whim of the oil spot market).

Then one day BG had a sudden change of heart. They said if occupants bankrolled a new main, they would lay it. Every home was to cough up about £1000 to fund the roll-out. My parents and others eagerly paid, and BG duly laid the new main. At last we had gas! (bit of an aside and still a great bone of contention: it turned out that BG performed later connections in the street for free. In effect early adopters subsidised them!)

But what if BT was allowed to do the same? "If youse 'orrible smelly lot want FTTC, then you betta cough up and pay us to fit it!" Would there be many takers? I certainly would, so long as it was done fairly with every household contributing equally to the bill.

Someone's got to pay to roll it out, and if BDUK is going to take decades to prise open its purse (aka the taxpayers' purse), then we may as well cut out the middleman and pay BT directly!

cheers, a
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Thu 11-Oct-12 01:00:57
Print Post

Re: Listening for fans in FTTC cabinets


[re: asbokid] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by asbokid:
Back in the '90s, we lived in a rural village with no natural gas (although you could often smell it from all the leaks!)

According to British Gas (BG) it wasn't economically viable to extend the main to serve us. So for years we depended on OFCH (and the whim of the oil spot market).

Then one day BG had a sudden change of heart. They said if occupants bankrolled a new main, they would lay it. Every home was to cough up about £1000 to fund the roll-out. My parents and others eagerly paid, and BG duly laid the new main. At last we had gas! (bit of an aside and still a great bone of contention: it turned out that BG performed later connections in the street for free. In effect early adopters subsidised them!)

But what if BT was allowed to do the same? "If youse 'orrible smelly lot want FTTC, then you betta cough up and pay us to fit it!" Would there be many takers? I certainly would, so long as it was done fairly with every household contributing equally to the bill.

Someone's got to pay to roll it out, and if BDUK is going to take decades to prise open its purse (aka the taxpayers' purse), then we may as well cut out the middleman and pay BT directly!

cheers, a
I wouldn't contribute anything towards FTTC ,But i would for FTTH

Standard User WWWombat
(experienced) Thu 11-Oct-12 02:21:58
Print Post

Re: Listening for fans in FTTC cabinets


[re: asbokid] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by asbokid:
But what if BT was allowed to do the same? "If youse 'orrible smelly lot want FTTC, then you betta cough up and pay us to fit it!" Would there be many takers? I certainly would, so long as it was done fairly with every household contributing equally to the bill.

Ironically, isn't this (effectively) what is going to happen with the FTTP-on-demand product.

The demand product will piggy-back on the FTTC installation without charging the willing household. OK so far. However, future households (some 10-15 years later) will be able to take advantage of the gradually-spreading network of fibre manifolds & splitters. At some point, in a decade or two, FTTP will stop being a "demand" product, and start being done by BT anyway.

Someone's got to pay to roll it out, and if BDUK is going to take decades to prise open its purse (aka the taxpayers' purse), then we may as well cut out the middleman and pay BT directly!

BDUK's purse has already been opened. North Yorkshire has already extracted funds (from both BDUK and the EU).

It won't be enough for FTTP though. Home will either have to pony up £1000 again (funny how it is similar to the BG number), or face paying at least £10pm extra for more than a decade.
Standard User R0NSKI
(committed) Thu 11-Oct-12 07:12:19
Print Post

Re: Listening for fans in FTTC cabinets


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
If it was £500 I could well be tempted to get a consistent stable connection, but a £1000 or more would be too much for me to justify.

Be interesting how you get a price for FTTP on demand, free quote, or a deposit of intent deducted from installation cost if you go ahead.

Edited by R0NSKI (Thu 11-Oct-12 07:13:41)

Standard User WWWombat
(experienced) Thu 11-Oct-12 11:10:49
Print Post

Re: Listening for fans in FTTC cabinets


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by R0NSKI:
If it was £500 I could well be tempted to get a consistent stable connection, but a £1000 or more would be too much for me to justify.

The 4-year-old figure was £29 billion to fibre everywhere. We've got 28 million lines - so that's £1,000 each, averaged over rural & urban.

A recent study of the final third estimates between £1,000 and £1,350 using BT ducts, or £1,350 to £2,100 using all-new ducting.

Those are costs. Presumably you'd need to add some extra money for the cost of financing (to give a return to investors), plus some amount of profit.

All that suggests that a £1,000 per home is a bare minimum, although that study was final-third, so urban ought to be cheaper.

The question then is how they choose to charge you that money. All up-front, or a hike in the per-month fees?
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Thu 11-Oct-12 11:43:57
Print Post

Re: Listening for fans in FTTC cabinets


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
In reply to a post by R0NSKI:
If it was £500 I could well be tempted to get a consistent stable connection, but a £1000 or more would be too much for me to justify.

The 4-year-old figure was £29 billion to fibre everywhere. We've got 28 million lines - so that's £1,000 each, averaged over rural & urban.

A recent study of the final third estimates between £1,000 and £1,350 using BT ducts, or £1,350 to £2,100 using all-new ducting.

Those are costs. Presumably you'd need to add some extra money for the cost of financing (to give a return to investors), plus some amount of profit.

All that suggests that a £1,000 per home is a bare minimum, although that study was final-third, so urban ought to be cheaper.

The question then is how they choose to charge you that money. All up-front, or a hike in the per-month fees?
They would charge the ISP.As we know only to well, Openreach don't deal direct with the public, So it would be upto the ISP providing FTTP on demand, The cost should be representative of the distance from cab to house too,not some dreamed up figure,

Standard User WWWombat
(experienced) Thu 11-Oct-12 12:14:50
Print Post

Re: Listening for fans in FTTC cabinets


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tommy45:
They would charge the ISP.As we know only to well, Openreach don't deal direct with the public, So it would be upto the ISP providing FTTP on demand,

Doh - we *do* get that, you know smirk

The point isn't about who you make the cheque out to. It's about the split between up-front, or on the "never-never" (as you'll now be a customer for the next 50 years). And the only place this matters is at the Openreach level, not the ISP.

Electricity connections used to be priced on the basis that you would stick for decades, so be spread over a long period, and shared amongst many people. Nowadays, the "open" competition rules mean that DNOs tend to charge it all up-front. And if *your* connection is the one that takes a transformer over-capacity, then *you* get the whole bill for the new transformer - and all up-front.

The cost should be representative of the distance from cab to house too,not some dreamed up figure,

It can be that, but still excessive - especially if BT follow the example from the electricity world.

If you are the first in an area, then you could be hit for the full charge of the manifolds, splitters, and ducting en-masse. The second person might just then pay for the differential costs on top of that - perhaps an extra 10 metres of ducting.

Whether they charge in this manner or not (and I certainly hope they won't), it doesn't change the question about whether they then choose to bill you up-front, or monthly over 2 decades.

While Openreach are managing an FTTP rollout without fear of a physical competitor, then they can afford to spread the charge over decades. If there is a possibility you take your business elsewhere in 6 months, they'll have to charge up-front.

I know some people don't like the idea of BT having a monopoly, but in this case - with £30 billion investment needed, and itchy investors - it might really be the only way we'll get to a national fibre access network, truly for everyone.

ISP's are different though. Ofcom have deliberately created a vibrant ISP retail market, so you *are* free to jump at will - and an ISP cannot count on you for decades of business. If Openreach passed on a full up-front bill to the ISP then you *are* going to get to pay the full lot up-front yourself.
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | [3] | 4 | 5 | 6 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to