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Standard User bazza1984
(newbie) Sun 23-Dec-12 10:08:29
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Fibre Petition


[link to this post]
 
if my housing estate holds around 520 houses how many signatures would i need to get bt to consider to upgrade as before when they carried there survey out it wasnt commercially vialble , at this moment i have around 330 sigs of people who want the upgrade!!!!

regards baz
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 23-Dec-12 10:47:47
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: bazza1984] [link to this post]
 
It depends how certain anyone can be how many of those 330 would actually sign up given the chance.

Given that the biggest FTTC cabinet has 288 connections and the smallest 96, you look to be in the ballpark.

It will depend as well on how far the estate is from any other FTTx cable route.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 23-Dec-12 10:48:53)

Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Sun 23-Dec-12 11:39:41
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: bazza1984] [link to this post]
 
are these "people that are interested" or "people that will place an order with an SP the day it's available".

Rutland Telecom had a trigger point of 80 for putting FTTC into a village http://www.rutlandtelecom.co.uk/ryhall/

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

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Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Sun 23-Dec-12 11:47:19
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: bazza1984] [link to this post]
 
How many cabinets serve the estate?

If it's just one has there been a lot of building on the estate in the last 3-4 years?
Standard User bazza1984
(newbie) Sun 23-Dec-12 12:20:05
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
there is onlt 1 cabinet for this estate and the estate next to us has about 5-6 enabled fttc cabinets !!!
and yes this is people who are interested and would place a order due to the lack of internet speed here its terrible... the estate next door can get 80/20 and we are on 2mb max!!!!
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 23-Dec-12 12:22:21
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: bazza1984] [link to this post]
 
How many properties on that other estate? Could we have some exchange and/or postcode details for the area please? To me, something isn't adding up.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User David_W
(experienced) Sun 23-Dec-12 12:26:59
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: bazza1984] [link to this post]
 
Ultimately, you'd need to discuss the situation with BT Openreach. Indeed, I'm surprised you didn't do this before you started the petition, as you would then know the reasons why you haven't been included in the roll-out so far, whether there is any hope of you being included in the remaining commercial roll-out, and what level of commitment of signatories to the petition may change Openreach's mind.


If your estate is a third exchange only lines, the other two thirds of lines are split across four PCPs (green cabinet, each of which would need a 'twin' cabinet for FTTC), two of the PCPs would need very expensive work to get a power feed to them, many of the lines are more than 1km from the PCP and there's no existing fibre spine nearby and no ductwork to the existing fibre spine, you have just about every reason for BT not to deploy and the estate is never likely to be included in BT's commercial roll-out, no matter what level of commitment you can get from the residents. All these problems are unlikely to exist on one estate.

If all the lines on your estate originate from a single PCP, the vast majority are less than 500m long, a power feed would be inexpensive and an existing fibre spine runs nearby, BT Openreach may be fairly easily swayed to roll-out FTTC to your estate. Indeed, if it is a new estate, you may be picked up by the in-fill programme - quite often new estates did not feature in original deployment plans but have a clear rationale for roll-out when BT consider adding additional cabinets to already upgraded exchanges.


There's a difference between "I want FTTx on the exchange" and "I commit myself to order FTTx within 6 months of it becoming available". It's easy to make the former statement, but ultimately it means little - it may be motivated by concerns, such as house prices or ease of future sale, other than a desire to order service. The latter commitment makes a sound business case for roll-out, especially if it's signatures from 330 houses, not 330 individuals from a rather lower number of houses.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Sun 23-Dec-12 12:32:30
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: bazza1984] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bazza1984:
there is onlt 1 cabinet for this estate and the estate next to us has about 5-6 enabled fttc cabinets !!!
and yes this is people who are interested and would place a order due to the lack of internet speed here its terrible... the estate next door can get 80/20 and we are on 2mb max!!!!


Has there been building on your estate in the past 3-4 years?
Standard User bazza1984
(newbie) Sun 23-Dec-12 13:08:50
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
they are soon to be finished earlie next year, and the reason to why we didint get upgraded was it was not commerically viable at the time of the survey according to openreach the estate next to me has about 1000+ houses..
Standard User bazza1984
(newbie) Sun 23-Dec-12 13:25:22
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: bazza1984] [link to this post]
 
RobertoS

this is the postocode of the school on the other estate the school is a 2 min walk from me

PE30 4RR

my postcode is pe30 4GX
Standard User bazza1984
(newbie) Sun 30-Dec-12 16:06:09
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: bazza1984] [link to this post]
 
my neighbour decided to ring bt on behalf of her dad to get him hooked up in the next town with normal adsl as they could not recieve fibre , while she was on the phone she asked about when we are going to get fibre as we was left out of the rollout plan , the bt advisor said that we will be connected in 3 months , i find this very hard to belive as ive looked everywere for info but found nothing....
Standard User 5km
(knowledge is power) Sun 30-Dec-12 16:24:04
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: bazza1984] [link to this post]
 
When the BT checker says "No"...

There's often not a lot anyone can do to persuade BT. Everyone should register interest through the http://bt.com/infinity page (check number then register interest for Infinity). This should help as BT will go where there is clear demand, after all that's what the investors will want.

There is a possibly that they already plan to enable your cabinet, they just haven't released a date yet. BT are filling in missed cabinets in a lot of areas now, mine included should be enabled 31st March, doubt it'll be on time but a step closer.

O2 Broadband Premium LLU
Now on twitter @timmay2
Standard User mikejp
(newbie) Sun 30-Dec-12 17:07:58
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: bazza1984] [link to this post]
 
I'm pretty certain there must be more than 1 PCP for 550 connections - I think 280 per cab is the max.

Have you looked at the local authority website for broadband? That will give you more information on BT's plans for the postcode. Did you and the estate respond to the County's broadband survey? If not why not? They will also have published a review of the plans by providers within the next 3 years. If all else fails, look at wireless - ideal for 550 houses and pretty cheap too. Which exchange are you connected to?
Standard User bazza1984
(newbie) Sun 30-Dec-12 18:20:52
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
The housing estate as far as i know is only connected to cabinet p60 as i have walked all the way round down every road im pritty sure this is the only + when checking other postcodes from all around the estae they say they are connected to p60 . there are around 520 homes situated on tihs estate

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/EAKLN

EAKLN that covers PE30

my postcode is pe30 4gx
Standard User Ribble
(committed) Sun 30-Dec-12 19:23:50
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
550 lines is certainly possible from a single PCP.
288 connections is the maximum possible from a single full size Huawei FTTC cabinet.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Sun 30-Dec-12 19:46:33
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mikejp:
I'm pretty certain there must be more than 1 PCP for 550 connections - I think 280 per cab is the max.

Have you looked at the local authority website for broadband? That will give you more information on BT's plans for the postcode. Did you and the estate respond to the County's broadband survey? If not why not? They will also have published a review of the plans by providers within the next 3 years. If all else fails, look at wireless - ideal for 550 houses and pretty cheap too. Which exchange are you connected to?


The larger 2 door PCPs can hold 1200 pairs.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Sun 30-Dec-12 19:58:02
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: bazza1984] [link to this post]
 
Looking at the spreadsheet the following postcodes are listed for your cabinet, along with the number of premises on them:

PE304GP 23
PE304GZ 28
PE304GN 14
PE304GJ 54
PE304GW 41
PE304GU 19
PE304GS 26
PE304GY 43
PE304GR 38
PE304GL 17
PE304GT 26
PE304GX 28

Total: 357

There may be postcodes missing, there are 2 postcodes listed which are incorrect so not impossible to think there are also postcodes missing.

Have you tried reaching out to Openreach at [email protected] to discuss privately funding the cabinet. They will take another look at it as a matter of course so that they can quote costs.

Where's the cabinet that serves the estate?

Edited by Ignitionnet (Sun 30-Dec-12 20:09:56)

Standard User Bob_s2
(committed) Sun 30-Dec-12 21:27:34
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: bazza1984] [link to this post]
 
The BT information indicates the CAbinet was not Planned at the 20011 rollout schedule. THat is different to it being not viable. It generally means that on the provisional data it will be included in the commercial rollout unless unexpected problems are discovered on a more detailed review

Your best bet is to email BT Enquires who should be able to tell you if it is in the Commercial Rollout. If it is not it would probably be in the Norfolk BDUK program for which you need to contact Norlfolk County Council. THey at this stage may have no real detailed dates at present

THere is BT activity in the area of your postcode due to commence on the 2nd January outside 13 Otley Way. THat road does not apear to show on google so may be a new road it seems to be of of A Winston Churchill Drive.

Edited by Bob_s2 (Sun 30-Dec-12 21:36:45)

Standard User bazza1984
(newbie) Tue 01-Jan-13 16:00:08
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: Bob_s2] [link to this post]
 
the estate is not finished yet but the postcodes u selected are all connected to 1 single door cabinet thats is about 500ft away from me when the estate is finished it will hold about 520 i think but ive only found one cabinet and taylor wimpey and openreach have told me that there is only 1 cabinet so i dont know ive already contacted openreach and they tell me we are on the council's plans for upgrade or something but we could be waiitng 3 years ?
Standard User mikejp
(newbie) Tue 01-Jan-13 16:07:37
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: bazza1984] [link to this post]
 
Ask the council?
Standard User bazza1984
(newbie) Tue 01-Jan-13 16:44:15
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
sorry we are on the councils plans but they have no info and we could be waiting 3 years
Standard User WWWombat
(experienced) Wed 02-Jan-13 12:21:44
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: bazza1984] [link to this post]
 
The situation is muddled because of BDUK funding going on at present, which clouds the process in a hidden way, in what is already a hidden process.

But basically, BT will have run your cabinet through their viability calculations, and decided it is not viable. In this case, the lack of viability might be nothing to do with the number of potential subscribers and everything to do with the cost of providing electricity or the cost of getting the fibre there, or the problems associated with actually siting a cabinet (or more than one).

We know that the lowest cost of providing an electrical connection is of the order of £1,000 - but it fluctuates entirely depending on the work needed on the distribution network. For example, if your order is the one that forces a new/upgraded transformer, then your order has to foot the bill entirely - and can change the £1,000 up into the tens (easily) or hundreds (rarely) of thousands.

If, in the next year, someone else foots that bill, then BT could order their connection for a £1,000 again. It makes sense, in a situation like that, to just wait.

A cabinet can thus become viable for no obvious (to Joe Public) reason - and the electricity connection is one example. So your cabinet might just become viable in the future, even without BDUK funding, and even without your petition. The petition *might* help, but is certainly no guarantee.

In the meantime, because you aren't on BT's programme, you *are* on the council's list. Being on the council list doesn't prevent your cabinet from becoming commercially viable in the meantime, but neither does it mean that it will be an automatic beneficiary of the BDUK funding.

Cambridgeshire/Peterborough don't look to be particularly far-advanced in the BDUK process - where the plans are limited to considering totals & percentages. Detailed cabinet & exchange plans will only be started after a contract is signed.

Either way, you are pretty much in the same state as 40% of the country, not knowing whether you'll be passed by, and not knowing when you'll know.

Edit: Just realised you are in Norfolk, so your county plans are certainly more advanced. You'll probably start to discover which exchanges are going to be included soon, but discovering plans for fill-in cabinets has always proved to be harder.

My personal opinion is that BDUK funding is *very* likely to trigger upgrade of cabinets that are fill-in (or previously unviable) on exchanges that themselves were part of the commercial rollout. It is an extremely sensible and cost-effective way to get towards the 90% coverage.

Edited by WWWombat (Wed 02-Jan-13 12:32:22)

Standard User WWWombat
(experienced) Wed 02-Jan-13 12:48:36
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
As a follow-on, I found this statement about the Norfolk plan:

We will prioritise based on the following principles:
  • We will address the white areas on Fig 8 first (areas
    that are not currently ‘unbundled’).
  • We will roll out superfast broadband infrastructure to
    areas within Norfolk output areas with more than 100
    people per square km. These are areas with
    significant population but which are currently not
    served by better than First Generation Broadband (if at
    all), so offer greatest potential benefit from the
    intervention (about 80% of Norfolk’s total population
    live in output areas with densities greater than this).
  • We will address current ‘unbundled’ areas last, as the
    commercial market is more likely to ‘fill in’ these areas,
    particularly following intervention.

So from a council perspective, you are probably last on the list. But from BT's perspective, you are probably an easy target - provided you are within the targets at all.
Standard User mikejp
(newbie) Wed 02-Jan-13 13:16:41
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
bazza - as www says - you are almost certainly in the 'unknown' bracket.

I am involved with another county's plans, and DO recommend you keep tabs on Norfolk's C C's progress. I do not know where they are in the scheme - they have awarded the contract to BT so BT will be in discussion with NCC over 'priorities' etc. Providing your exchange area has shouted both to NCC in their survey last year and to BT via their broadband website you have a good chance of being seriously looked at for improvement, but no guarantees as www says. Funds are limited. You will be able to tell from the NCC Broadband Public Consultation document (should be on their website) whether BT have declared any 'commercial' plans to do your area by 2015. Otherwise wait and see what the council and BT conjure up.
Standard User bazza1984
(newbie) Fri 04-Jan-13 15:12:12
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
Just recived this email from the company who built this estate!

Dear Sir,



Further to your enquiry regarding the availability of BT fibre broadband, Taylor Wimpey have installed all the necessary infrastructure, but provision of the service is at the discretion of the provider. Our engineers will however speak with BT to try to find out what their plans are. We will advise you in due course when we hear anything positive.

so does this mean that there isnt much more openreach have to do to get us connected other then installing the new cabinet ?
Standard User mikejp
(newbie) Fri 04-Jan-13 16:03:11
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: bazza1984] [link to this post]
 
I suspect this means that TW have run ducting to all houses which would accommodate telephone cabling. It is probable they have run ducting up to the old cabinet (or to a BT duct in each road) from each house but far less likely they have provided the electricity supply BT would need for a FTTC cabinet. In any case, BT would have had to make whatever connections were needed at the cabinet for existing telephones, not TW.

When you consider there is no need for 'new' ducting to properties simply to receive BT FTTC, I suspect they are just talking about ordinary telephone ducting to each house for basic telephone wiring. In any case, BT will need to provide a fibre feed to the area of the old cabinet, a connection to the exchange for this and an electricity supply to the new cabinet - if it does not exist already.

See what they say. To some extent it will hinge on what planning conditions (if any) your LA placed on the developers of the estate. As before - ask the LA - have you?
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Fri 04-Jan-13 16:14:37
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Re: Fibre Petition


[re: bazza1984] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bazza1984:
Just recived this email from the company who built this estate!

Dear Sir,



Further to your enquiry regarding the availability of BT fibre broadband, Taylor Wimpey have installed all the necessary infrastructure, but provision of the service is at the discretion of the provider. Our engineers will however speak with BT to try to find out what their plans are. We will advise you in due course when we hear anything positive.

so does this mean that there isnt much more openreach have to do to get us connected other then installing the new cabinet ?


Where's the cabinet that serves the estate?

Could you pinpoint it on a Google Map?
Standard User bazza1984
(newbie) Fri 04-Jan-13 18:27:58
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Re: Fibre Petition *DELETED*


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by bazza1984
Standard User bazza1984
(newbie) Fri 04-Jan-13 18:34:24
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Re: Fibre Petition *DELETED*


[re: bazza1984] [link to this post]
 
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=2094453605091...

the estate is alot bigger now this was when they 1st started its 3 times the size now

Edited by bazza1984 (Fri 04-Jan-13 18:36:06)

Standard User bazza1984
(newbie) Mon 07-Jan-13 20:00:23
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Re: Fibre Petition *DELETED*


[re: bazza1984] [link to this post]
 
Ignitionnet did you find the cabinet located on google maps ?
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