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Standard User clarkac
(newbie) Mon 31-Dec-12 12:55:14
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BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[link to this post]
 
I've had the bottom grade BT fibre since Nov 16th and get 24mb down and 8mb up at my wireless laptop. I ran the 'proper' BT speed test and got the results below. I'm surprised by the large 10mb difference between the test and and the rate I get at the laptop. The BT hub is only 7m away through one internal brick wall, on the same floor. Maybe I should rework the cabling to get the BT hub nearer. Any comments?
=========================================================================
1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Download Speed
34.07 Mbps

0 Mbps 0 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speed achieved during the test was - 34.07 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 12 Mbps-0 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 38.72 Mbps

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.
Upload Speed
8.48 Mbps

0 Mbps 10 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 8.48Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 10 Mbps

Edited by clarkac (Mon 31-Dec-12 12:56:00)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 31-Dec-12 13:00:01
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: clarkac] [link to this post]
 
Are you saying that you ran that test wired to the router? It seems likely from the rest of he post, but you don't say so.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Mon 31-Dec-12 13:04:26
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: clarkac] [link to this post]
 
more explanation required of what we're comparing with what - which other speed test and what modes of connection

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics


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Standard User clarkac
(newbie) Mon 31-Dec-12 13:09:00
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Yes, the test was run wired exactly as specified by the BT test.
The test I ran at the laptop was using speedtest.net. I just run this wireless test standing 2m from the BT hub and got the same results - 24mb down and 8mb up. So moving the BT hub wouldn't help at all... I am intrigued by the significant difference between wired and wireless.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Mon 31-Dec-12 13:11:28
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: clarkac] [link to this post]
 
802.11g wireless tops out at about 22-25 Mbits/s of useful data for "54 Mbits/s" connection - what speed is shown for wireless connection on the operating system

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Mon 31-Dec-12 13:12:44
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: clarkac] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by clarkac:
I am intrigued by the significant difference between wired and wireless.


I suspect your laptop has a Wireless G adaptor built in as 24meg is about as fast as wireless G can go (even though the advertising says 54 there are overheads in the way WiFi wireless works).

Your Ethernet connection will be 100megabit or faster, and there are almost no overheads so you can easily get 90 megabit given a fast enough computer and hard drive.

Your HomeHub 3 supports wireless-N which is needed to go faster.

James BT Infinity 2 19/09/2012 - Estimate 44.6/6.5 - Install 52/12 - Actual 46 / 8 Mbps
13 years of broadband - 1999 ntl:(512k/1M)/BTbusiness(2M)/Metronet(2M)/Bulldog(8M/16M)/BE(19M/16M)/BT FTTC(46M)

Edited by jchamier (Mon 31-Dec-12 13:13:23)

Standard User clarkac
(newbie) Mon 31-Dec-12 13:16:28
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
My wireless is 'n' - Realtek RTL8191SE Wireless LAN 802.11n PCI-E NIC so it should be better.
Standard User clarkac
(newbie) Mon 31-Dec-12 13:22:19
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
W7 is showing a wireless speed that varies between 48mbps and 54mbps..
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Mon 31-Dec-12 13:24:36
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: clarkac] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by clarkac:
W7 is showing a wireless speed that varies between 48mbps and 54mbps..

effectively in 802.11g mode then - consistent. Might be worth trying a channel change in case the HH has picked a naff one.

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User clarkac
(newbie) Mon 31-Dec-12 13:58:54
Print Post

Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
Tried a couple of channel changes, which only made matters worse. I guess the problem is my laptop's wireless which although running as 'n' is effectively stuck at 'g'. I have no idea why though.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Mon 31-Dec-12 14:06:11
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: clarkac] [link to this post]
 
might be worth checking for a driver update, just in case. Presumably the hub has N mode selected, does it give you channel width options (wider = more bandwidth)

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User DRW
(committed) Mon 31-Dec-12 23:06:39
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: clarkac] [link to this post]
 
Does your wireless router have a quality of service protection that restricts wireless capacity to protect the wired computers from being limited.
Standard User ukhardy07
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 01-Jan-13 01:53:10
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: clarkac] [link to this post]
 
Try whilst being RIGHT next to the router. So the laptops basically touching it.

What's the connection rate reported on the wireless connection as and what's a speedtest show?
Use this tester
http://speedtester.bt.com/beta/
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Tue 01-Jan-13 07:45:16
Print Post

Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: clarkac] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by clarkac:
I've had the bottom grade BT fibre since Nov 16th and get 24mb down and 8mb up at my wireless laptop. I ran the 'proper' BT speed test and got the results below. I'm surprised by the large 10mb difference between the test and and the rate I get at the laptop. The BT hub is only 7m away through one internal brick wall, on the same floor. Maybe I should rework the cabling to get the BT hub nearer. Any comments?
=========================================================================
1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Download Speed
34.07 Mbps

0 Mbps 0 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speed achieved during the test was - 34.07 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 12 Mbps-0 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 38.72 Mbps

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.
Upload Speed
8.48 Mbps

0 Mbps 10 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 8.48Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 10 Mbps
At the end of the day wireless will allways be inferior when compared to wired ethernet , be it less throughput or higher latency(pings) so apart from browsing reading /sending e-mail /social media , and the like , it's rubbish compared to ethernet cat 5-6 cable( LAN 100mb/1gb ) and is a security risk or can be

Standard User izools
(experienced) Tue 01-Jan-13 09:29:17
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: clarkac] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by clarkac:
Tried a couple of channel changes, which only made matters worse. I guess the problem is my laptop's wireless which although running as 'n' is effectively stuck at 'g'. I have no idea why though.


You need 5 GHz wireless-N.

2.4GHz is too crowded, as you've found out. When I had infinity I bought a 5GHz wireless access point, and upgraded all the client computers to have 5 GHz capable N cards, my throughput then increased to match the attainable throughout via Ethernet.

Bit of a PITA but that's just the nature of wireless networking I'm afraid.

_____________________________________________
BE Unlimited ¦ 7.4Mb 49dB Down ¦ 1.2Mb 32dB Up ¦ 3dB Fastpath ¦ Netgear DGND3700
My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User Bob_s2
(committed) Tue 01-Jan-13 09:50:06
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
Wirless should not affect latency . Latency is dependent on distance and the medium the signal travels along
Standard User izools
(experienced) Tue 01-Jan-13 10:38:29
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: Bob_s2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Bob_s2:
Wirless should not affect latency . Latency is dependent on distance and the medium the signal travels along


Incorrect. Latency can increase if bandwidth is reduced due to crosstalk with other wireless networks. You may also see lag spikes and a marginally (1-5ms) higher baseline ping due to the computational time required by the sending and receiving wireless chipsets.

Especially with the more recent AES / WPA encryption, encoding and decoding overheads are prevalent.

_____________________________________________
BE Unlimited ¦ 7.4Mb 49dB Down ¦ 1.2Mb 32dB Up ¦ 3dB Fastpath ¦ Netgear DGND3700
My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by izools (Tue 01-Jan-13 10:40:10)

Moderator billford
(moderator) Tue 01-Jan-13 10:39:38
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: Bob_s2] [link to this post]
 
The first part of your post is broadly correct, the second is merely another example of your wilful posting of misinformation, about which you have been warned several times.

It is becoming tiresome... desist.

Bill
[email protected] __________________Planes and Boats and ... __________________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Moderator billford
(moderator) Tue 01-Jan-13 10:41:37
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: izools] [link to this post]
 
He did have the sense to say "should not ...".

Bill
[email protected] __________________Planes and Boats and ... __________________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User izools
(experienced) Tue 01-Jan-13 10:42:35
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by billford:
He did have the sense to say "should not ...".


Haha, fair enough man.

Oh, and happy new year all!

_____________________________________________
BE Unlimited ¦ 7.4Mb 49dB Down ¦ 1.2Mb 32dB Up ¦ 3dB Fastpath ¦ Netgear DGND3700
My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Tue 01-Jan-13 11:44:17
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: izools] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by izools:
You need 5 GHz wireless-N.

Agreed!

I would get inSSIDer installed first though - its free.

http://www.metageek.net/products/inssider/

James BT Infinity 2 19/09/2012 - Estimate 44.6/6.5 - Install 52/12 - Actual 46 / 8 Mbps
13 years of broadband - 1999 ntl:(512k/1M)/BTbusiness(2M)/Metronet(2M)/Bulldog(8M/16M)/BE(19M/16M)/BT FTTC(46M)
Standard User Daniel_g
(committed) Tue 01-Jan-13 13:31:33
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: clarkac] [link to this post]
 
Hello

Is the HH in the advanced setting for wireless on b,g and n.

mine connects at 144mbs on the right click of the connected network on botton right hand side on taskbar.

I get this on it.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/2406627666.png

no different to the 5Ghz router I also have and use as only me on that band. have 2 routers, the bt one and a 5Ghz netgear.

Worth a look in the settings.
Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Tue 01-Jan-13 13:54:48
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: izools] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by izools:
2.4GHz is too crowded, as you've found out.

That is the assumption, but the OP has not mentioned that he has actually checked this.

DrT

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User ferretuk
(learned) Wed 02-Jan-13 10:04:11
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: clarkac] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by clarkac:
Tried a couple of channel changes, which only made matters worse. I guess the problem is my laptop's wireless which although running as 'n' is effectively stuck at 'g'. I have no idea why though.


What encryption are you using? WEP or WPA/TKIP will limit the connection to 802.11g speeds.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Wed 02-Jan-13 10:43:33
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: Bob_s2] [link to this post]
 
Wrong again ... with your first statement which is contradicted by your almost correct second statement.

Wireless is faster than wired - and the difference mainly depends on the insulation material and dielectric constant. I don't have the figures to hand but when compared to twisted pairs/Cat5e it is around 15% faster and can be more and with coax around 50% faster.

The difference may be down in atto-seconds but it is still there.

What changes it and makes wireless systems have an apparent greater latency (assuming no competing signals) is the conversion from Ethernet to radio and back again.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Wed 02-Jan-13 12:32:17
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Try whilst being RIGHT next to the router. So the laptops basically touching it.
You get better throughput on 802.11n MIMO if there's stuff in the way and reflections - it uses multipath constructively.

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User ukhardy07
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 02-Jan-13 12:36:54
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
That's a very bold statement.

Even with Mimo if there's stuff in the way it doesn't generally make it better.

E.g. Put a wall between the router and the laptop that WILL be slower than being in the same room as the router with no obstructions.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Wed 02-Jan-13 12:37:09)

Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Wed 02-Jan-13 13:13:28
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
the first time I tried an 802.11n device and router I had them next to each other as you suggested, and the throughput was rubbish. I opened a filing cabinet drawer and put the receiver at the opposite side of it and the throughput increased quite a lot, more obstructions in the same room also helped. So it wasn't as black and white as I expected.

Put a wall between the two and the SNR margin may be lower if it's still at full speed, it's a "very bold statement" to say that it WILL be slower - depends on the wall etc.

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User Uilebheist
(legend) Wed 02-Jan-13 13:20:37
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
I've observed the same. Router on a desk, and laptop on the same desk = rubbish (but of course it was easy enough to use a wired connection!)
However, the laptop had a good connection in the next room.
Never could figure that out. However it didn't worry me too much as that was at a friend's place and I don't necessarily need full speed when I visit them.
Standard User ukhardy07
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 02-Jan-13 13:21:51
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
Standard brick wall. I have yet to see a situation where it's faster through a solid wall.
Certainly any obstruction isn't good.

Your theory works in some ways.

Being right next to the router can mean that you're not getting the full advantage of mimo. That is all of the antennas broadcasting.
Moving say 30cm away can give these advantages.

Obstructions though will NEVER help unless they're acting as say a cantenna does (very rare).
Also reflecting of wifi isn't ever going to help. It just makes the environment more noisy.

So yes being say 30 cm away may help.
Standard User ukhardy07
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 02-Jan-13 13:31:02
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
Reflecting a wifi signal indoors can so easily wreak havoc on signal strength. It would only be a benefit if the reflections are in phase. The thing is that any other out of phase multipath to the antenna is not good.

I do agree though that a little space can be good. Reflections / obstructions are not good.
Standard User smouty
(learned) Mon 07-Jan-13 09:21:14
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
As has been briefly mentioned - set your wifi router to N mode with WPA2 encryption only.
Anything else SHOULD cause it to drop down to G speeds. I say should because a number of routers including the HH3 do not adhere to the 802.11 standard.
Standard User clarkac
(newbie) Fri 11-Jan-13 19:54:56
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: smouty] [link to this post]
 
Smouty, you are absolutely right. Working on another installation with an ASUS RT-N56U wireless router (an amazing piece of kit) I came across some notes that if you use a WPA/WPA2 mixture then wireless will drop back to 802.11g. So I changed my BT Hub from WPA/WPA2 to WPA2 only and bang!! Now I get 36mb down!! Problem solved.
I can understand why it's set this way to allow for older devices, so I guess that's the price we pay for rapidly changing technology.

Which reminds me of when Sir John Harvey-Jones (in the Troubleshooter TV programme) said to a fellow in the Morgan car factory chassis shop - "You must have seen a lot of changes in the 35 years you've been here..' To which the man looked at him blankly and said 'No' !!!

If only IT was like that... as if! Anyway, thanks for comments - maybe fixing this problem will help someone else.
Standard User malacath
(regular) Sun 13-Jan-13 17:34:35
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: clarkac] [link to this post]
 
Your lucky.

I get a whopping 40 meg difference between wireless and wired.

When wired I get full 76meg in speed tests. When Wireless I usually get around 30meg.

My laptop is capable of getting at least 60meg wireless as thats what I get in my friends house.
Nothing I do works to improve wireless. I've tried changing wifi channels and It's just as slow if I put the laptop right by the router.

I can only assume it's interference from either the 13 other access points I can receive in my house or some other type of interference.
Standard User R0NSKI
(experienced) Sun 13-Jan-13 19:12:42
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: malacath] [link to this post]
 
Your lucky too, I only get just over 40Mbps out of my FTTC connection wink

Standard User smouty
(learned) Mon 14-Jan-13 08:44:52
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Re: BT - 34mb on test, but 24mb wireless !


[re: clarkac] [link to this post]
 
Glad it worked out for you.
I raised this point with BT but they didn't really understand the issue at level 1 support and the response was poor. This is a constantly recurring issue on the BT care forums especially with Apple devices as it appears the HH3 does not implement WMM which is required as part of the 802.11N standard.

BTW - I connect to my HH3 at approx. 140mbit so the difference between wired/wireless for speedtest.net is negligible with an N wifi device.
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