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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 05-Jan-13 23:14:33
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Re: Openreach modem question


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
The problem is Zarjaz, that there doesn't seem to be a single ISP that stipulates that the modem is not the end user's property. Oops, I think I read in Zen help the other day that on FTTC termination a jiffy bag will be sent for its return to Openreach.

Nowhere else that I know of.

As a user's contract is with their ISP there are bound to be ongoing issues, whatever Openreach documentation may say. Those are not documents the eponymous average reasonable person is expected to be aware even exist, never mind read.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Sat 05-Jan-13 23:16:16
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Re: Openreach modem question


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
The document which states: The first variant is an Openreach supplied and maintained VDSL2 modem. which suggests the OR retain ownership of the modem. If they do not own it, why would they want to have responsibility for maintenance?


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M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Sat 05-Jan-13 23:17:57
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Re: Openreach modem question


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
Have a look at one of my posts with links to BT documents. Those certainly do suggest OR retains ownership.


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M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit


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Standard User MHC
(sensei) Sat 05-Jan-13 23:23:20
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Re: Openreach modem question


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
There is. The BT Business Ts & Cs state:

title in equipment passes to the Customer on payment of the charges as detailed in the Charges Schedule at which point the equipment becomes Customer Equipment, however title in any equipment supplied without charge remains with BT as BT Equipment;
which is in my earlier post. and I have never seen a customer invoiced for the modem alongside installation and commencement of service. I have just checked a BT invoice from December and there are charges for service and the hub - which becomes te customer property but no charge for the modem which under the Ts & Cs remains BT property.


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M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Moderator billford
(moderator) Sat 05-Jan-13 23:23:43
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Re: Openreach modem question


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
BT SIN 498, which I regard as definitive.
That's a Service and Interface Description... extract from the front page:
This document does not form a part of any contract with BT customers or suppliers.


Bill
[email protected] __________________Planes and Boats and ... __________________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User systemx
(experienced) Sat 05-Jan-13 23:23:46
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Re: Openreach modem question


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
The problem is Zarjaz, that there doesn't seem to be a single ISP that stipulates that the modem is not the end user's property. Oops, I think I read in Zen help the other day that on FTTC termination a jiffy bag will be sent for its return to Openreach.

Nowhere else that I know of.

As a user's contract is with their ISP there are bound to be ongoing issues, whatever Openreach documentation may say. Those are not documents the eponymous average reasonable person is expected to be aware even exist, never mind read.



http://www.aa.net.uk/broadband-FC.html

Right down the bottom of the page in the tecnnical section
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 05-Jan-13 23:24:46
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Re: Openreach modem question


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
But is almost certainly irrelevant to the end user if not mentioned in the ISP's T & Cs. The ISP may be liable to recompense Openreach, but end users seem to be in the clear.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 05-Jan-13 23:26:50
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Re: Openreach modem question


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
I saw you post that earlier, and it is quite clear there, I agree.

But there is no such clause in the BT non-business T & Cs. Why not? Accident, or design? If it isn't there, it can't be enforced.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sat 05-Jan-13 23:29:47
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Re: Openreach modem question


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
Coincidentally, similar wording appears on that Openreach fact-sheet.

However
In reference to www.sinet.bt.com/faq.htm:
Q.1 What are SINs?

A. SINs are Suppliers' Information Notes, published by BT to meet its regulatory obligations relating to the publication of Customer Interface information. They are used to publish technical descriptions of BT's Customer Interfaces and services, and also to announce the launch, withdrawal or modification of interfaces and services.



_____________________________________________________________________________________________ this is not usenet __________________
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Sat 05-Jan-13 23:30:29
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Re: Openreach modem question


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In the BT res it states what they will supply ... it includes the hub and data extension kit but no modem. It mentions the installation of "network equipment" to enable use of the service. The Network Equipment is the modem ... a key word being Network - which is owned by BT.


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M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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