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Standard User Myth
(committed) Sun 10-Feb-13 14:07:05
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New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[link to this post]
 
Hi all, the Dec2011 spreadsheet shows my postcode as 93% getting FTTP on phase 8b. After seeing other places on the exchange with FTTP phase 3a not having fibre services offered I gave up hope of having fibre any time soon.

However, I just checked the BT wholesale checker and it shows for my postcode

WBC FTTC Up to 61.8Mb Up to 20Mb -- 31-Mar-13
type down up available

What do you folks make of this? Do you think this relates to the 7% of the postcode on the different exchange (and obviously cabinet)? Or do you think they changed their minds about us getting FTTP instead of FTTC? or is it just a mistake/wishful thinking etc?

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Sun 10-Feb-13 14:11:56
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
It says FTTC is coming in March. Numbers are usually better than postcodes.

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User Ribble
(committed) Sun 10-Feb-13 16:19:23
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
It seems many previously FTTP areas are now going to be FTTC instead


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Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Sun 10-Feb-13 17:32:57
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: Ribble] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ribble:
It seems many previously FTTP areas are now going to be FTTC instead


Which with the release of FTTPoD makes a lot of sense.
Standard User Myth
(committed) Sun 10-Feb-13 17:36:15
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
looked a bit further and used some phone numbers, though mine has no info (full LLU), the 2% other cabinet for the postcode says available now, though it now says same exchange and I could have sworn it was a different exchange last time I checked.

Anyway, looks like they've rethought the FTTP stuff smile

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!
Standard User somerset
(committed) Sun 10-Feb-13 17:55:53
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Myth:
looked a bit further and used some phone numbers, though mine has no info (full LLU), the 2% other cabinet for the postcode says available now, though it now says same exchange and I could have sworn it was a different exchange last time I checked.

Anyway, looks like they've rethought the FTTP stuff smile


Use the address checker.
Standard User Myth
(committed) Sun 10-Feb-13 18:51:28
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: somerset] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by somerset:
In reply to a post by Myth:
looked a bit further and used some phone numbers, though mine has no info (full LLU), the 2% other cabinet for the postcode says available now, though it now says same exchange and I could have sworn it was a different exchange last time I checked.

Anyway, looks like they've rethought the FTTP stuff smile


Use the address checker.


way to read the whole thread 0_o

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!
Standard User R0NSKI
(experienced) Sun 10-Feb-13 22:24:14
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Myth:
In reply to a post by somerset:
In reply to a post by Myth:
looked a bit further and used some phone numbers, though mine has no info (full LLU), the 2% other cabinet for the postcode says available now, though it now says same exchange and I could have sworn it was a different exchange last time I checked.

Anyway, looks like they've rethought the FTTP stuff smile


Use the address checker.


way to read the whole thread 0_o


I've read the whole thread and it only shows that you've only used your postcode and others phone numbers, try the address checker and use your house number AND postcode.

Standard User garethr
(regular) Sun 10-Feb-13 22:42:52
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: Ribble] [link to this post]
 
BT changed the criteria for FTTC to enable FTTC to be enabled on more premises in June / July last year. This isn't totally a business decision - BT have gained considerable confidence in the FTTC technology so it is more suitable in more areas.

Regards,

Gareth
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Sun 10-Feb-13 22:48:08
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: garethr] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by garethr:
BT changed the criteria for FTTC to enable FTTC to be enabled on more premises in June / July last year. This isn't totally a business decision - BT have gained considerable confidence in the FTTC technology so it is more suitable in more areas.

Regards,

Gareth


These guys were originally scheduled for FTTP though, unsure of the relevance of FTTC becoming cheaper to deploy?
Standard User garethr
(regular) Sun 10-Feb-13 22:58:39
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
BT only install GEA-FTTP when they have no other choice, as part of a trial or on new build.

So if an area previously wasn't viable for FTTC it would be FTTP by default or un-viable for fibre broadband.

The introduction of profile 17a etc etc changed BT model. This allows them to install FTTC to more areas instead of FTTP.

Basically the goal posts moved. BT also delayed FTTP installs in many areas to ensure it was the best method for those areas. Many are now C or bits of P with loads of C.

Regards,

Gareth
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Sun 10-Feb-13 23:08:27
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: garethr] [link to this post]
 
So if an area isn't viable for FTTC at an average cost of less than £25,000 per cabinet BT will instead spend between £2,000 and £5,000 per home delivering FTTP?

I appreciate your experience is of the bizarre scenario that is Woburn Sands but what is your source for this?

It makes very little sense to me for BT to adjudge the financial returns to too poor to spend a few tens of thousands to deliver to a group of homes and instead spend 6 figures delivering to them.

Edited by Ignitionnet (Sun 10-Feb-13 23:08:56)

Standard User garethr
(regular) Sun 10-Feb-13 23:19:38
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
You obviously don't realise that BT anticipated having to re-engineer the local loop or PCP-> Exchange trunks if installing FTTC in some areas.

When you then consider the costs of FTTP are ***NOT*** uniform so not as high as some people would like you to believe in some areas the difference between FTTC/FTTP becomes marginal.

A better understand of the FTTC technology and other factors thus swings the decision the other way.

So the areas completed for FTTC at first would be where BT new that was the besst choice. Anywhere where the was issues or they weren't sure was done later - based on scoring in their model.


Regards,


Gareth
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Mon 11-Feb-13 01:48:04
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: garethr] [link to this post]
 
Again your source please, as most of this doesn't make a lot of sense at first glance.

I'm aware that BT had to do some digging as there wasn't enough space in the existing duct network for the fibre microducts. If you could explain to me why this is any different for FTTP over FTTC that'd rock, given that according to BT the NGA overlay network build once it leaves the exchange is identical between FTTP and FTTC until it leaves the last aggregation node in the chain and goes on to either connect to an optical splitter for FTTP or a cabinet for FTTC.

I'm also aware the costs for FTTP are not uniform. They're cheapest in market towns with a certain population density and layout, and then in cities with high population density. In neither case does FTTC come out anywhere near as expensive.

If the cost difference between the two were marginal in some areas, and I still can't for the life of me think how a cabinet costing 6 or 7k could cost less than connecting up homes to FTTP, especially in marginal areas. The cost of getting the fibre up towards the customers where it can go into the optical splitter is the same, then you've the costs of building the chamber for the splitter, then the customers drops.

I have seen no cases, the Weirdness of Woburn Sands excepted where enabling the exchange in itself was weird, let alone the very small homes passed cabinets, where BT have decided an area is unviable for FTTC so delivered FTTP.

Areas completed for FTTC first were done for a few reasons. Political, commercial, good will. The model itself didn't change but as fibre spread out further and closer to existing cabinets along with acquiring the ECI kit the sums changes. The rollout is to the 2/3rds of the UK where BT can make the most money, and they do the most profitable cabinets on an exchange in the first wave then in-fill on the ones that didn't score so highly in the payback model - this can be easily seen in the broadband campaign I've done where a large cabinet directly on the fibre route was upgraded, followed a little while after by a smaller cabinet near the fibre route, then 2 further cabinets slightly further from the fibre route with slightly less subscribers.

There were some really serious flaws with the models however which have relatively recently been looked at - a cabinet passing 393 homes with over a hundred more units under construction, 2 metres from power and 400m of clean ducting from the fibre spine, one of the largest cabinets for homes passed on the exchange in question, comes to mind.
Standard User Myth
(committed) Mon 11-Feb-13 02:19:45
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by R0NSKI:
In reply to a post by Myth:
In reply to a post by somerset:
... nested quotes trimmed ...


Use the address checker.


way to read the whole thread 0_o


I've read the whole thread and it only shows that you've only used your postcode and others phone numbers, try the address checker and use your house number AND postcode.


what i checked using the postcode showed FTTC into for the cabinet I am connected to. I can't think I can get different information if I add a house number, unless you are saying they are enabling a cabinet and then saying no to select houses on each street?

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!
Standard User MrFied
(newbie) Mon 11-Feb-13 08:08:38
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Myth:
what i checked using the postcode showed FTTC into for the cabinet I am connected to. I can't think I can get different information if I add a house number, unless you are saying they are enabling a cabinet and then saying no to select houses on each street?


That's strange. For me (and I think most people) the postcode checker doesn't indicate the cabinet (since one postcode can be covered by multiple cabinets).

I think that's why it was suggested you use the address checker (which can always indicate the cabinet).

Still, as long as you get the information... smile
Standard User kitcat
(member) Mon 11-Feb-13 09:58:05
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
There appear to be a subset of sites where FTTP is cheaper than FTTC. If you take the old TPON areas where the fibre already exists to a splitter "in the close", approx 24-32 houses. These seem to be a long way from the exchange with no cab.

This suggests that removing the old TPON splitter and replacing with a FTTP splitter give immediate access to those houses by FTTP at a very low cost. Just the final run to the house over a short distance.

This is always likely to be cheaper than providing a Cab and re-cabling 2-400 houses to it.

There may be orther cases where the houses are served direct from the exchange but a fibre cable is already present serving local businesses that the cost is very close for smaller numbers of customers. My opinion is that the bigger the number of houses the less likely this will cost in as the cab costs get spread across more custonmers but the FTTP costs multilpy per splitter.
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 11-Feb-13 10:19:46
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
I like how you added 'good will' to the list of reasons smile

Still find it amusing sheringham is enabled.

But that might work out good for me as I wanted to move to norfolk for a long time and now can be near the sea in norfolk with FTTC.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012 - Estimate 65.9/20 - Attainable peak 110/36 - Current Sync 71/20
Standard User R0NSKI
(experienced) Mon 11-Feb-13 10:22:50
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Myth:
what i checked using the postcode showed FTTC into for the cabinet I am connected to. I can't think I can get different information if I add a house number, unless you are saying they are enabling a cabinet and then saying no to select houses on each street?


The postcode checker is known to be unreliable, as a postcode could be served by more than one cabinet, as I think yours is.

When I check our local cabinets I always use the house number and postcode, if it's a flat then ignore house number and enter flat and number in the house name box.

Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Mon 11-Feb-13 10:38:31
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kitcat:
There appear to be a subset of sites where FTTP is cheaper than FTTC. If you take the old TPON areas where the fibre already exists to a splitter "in the close", approx 24-32 houses. These seem to be a long way from the exchange with no cab.

This suggests that removing the old TPON splitter and replacing with a FTTP splitter give immediate access to those houses by FTTP at a very low cost. Just the final run to the house over a short distance.

This is always likely to be cheaper than providing a Cab and re-cabling 2-400 houses to it.

There may be orther cases where the houses are served direct from the exchange but a fibre cable is already present serving local businesses that the cost is very close for smaller numbers of customers. My opinion is that the bigger the number of houses the less likely this will cost in as the cab costs get spread across more custonmers but the FTTP costs multilpy per splitter.


Given BT haven't reused any TPON infrastructure for their NGA deployment so far it seems fair to think that there are no plans to do so to deploy FTTP. I'm sure if they could have they would have.

BT are simply skipping homes directly connected to exchanges, not deploying FTTP.

They are deploying on their market rollout to the most viable 2/3rds of the country, a few bizarre exceptions accepted. There is no reason whatsoever for them to deploy FTTP to sites not viable for FTTC when they could happily cover far more homes elsewhere with FTTC.

EDIT: Another major issue is that BT just don't have the resource to do such checks. Cabinets are thrown into an algorithm and the best get enabled.

Note I said cabinets there. The commercial algorithm doesn't appear to even consider exchange only stuff.

Edited by Ignitionnet (Mon 11-Feb-13 13:25:41)

Standard User undecidedadrian
(regular) Mon 11-Feb-13 11:31:14
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
I like how you added 'good will' to the list of reasons smile

Still find it amusing sheringham is enabled.

But that might work out good for me as I wanted to move to norfolk for a long time and now can be near the sea in norfolk with FTTC.


Rather than be adversarial when dealing with BT, such as Haringay, St Albans and Kensington and Chelsea, Sheringham and Cromer councils welcomed BT with open arms, gave them streamlined planning permission process and paid for some of the "unecconomic" areas to be installed at the time of the rollout.

So it isn't really "amusing" just a local council with their heads screwed on with regards on bringing new infrastructure into an area.
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 11-Feb-13 14:34:29
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: undecidedadrian] [link to this post]
 
sheringham was announced as part of their market towns PR stunt.

cromer I have not heard of any plans to enable.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012 - Estimate 65.9/20 - Attainable peak 110/36 - Current Sync 71/20
Standard User Myth
(committed) Mon 11-Feb-13 16:36:50
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
hey, sorry it was the phone numbers of houses i know to be in my postcode that gave the cabinet in the result, and I already knew that was my cabinet (97%). I also used a phone number of the place I know is in my postcode but uses the other (2%) cabinet.

I just tried the address checker (I didn't see the link previously) and got the same result.

cheers all

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!
Standard User Myth
(committed) Thu 30-May-13 14:29:44
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
well, soon after the 31-Mar-13 date for FTTC availability on the BTw checker, it changed to July-13.

A cabinet appeared near the old one, and 2 or 3 trenches have been dug from the old cabinet and also towards the road or to a lamppost.

Then the new cabinet sat with barricades around it from then (March?) and still just sits there.

The BTw checker now has no mention of FTTC.

Any thoughts?

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!
Standard User da_flash
(committed) Thu 30-May-13 15:01:32
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
Is there a smaller power cabinet there? Also is it still covered? Mine has been in with power for at least 6 months and still no FTTC available. Mine also has disappeared off the checker as well.

Cheers C
Standard User Myth
(committed) Thu 30-May-13 16:39:42
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: da_flash] [link to this post]
 
there's definately no new smaller cabinet next to the new fibre one, and my first thought was the power cable ditch failed or something which is why they barricaded it and left.

If the power cabinet is next to the old cabinet (20m away) then it might be there as I haven't checked the old cabinet since the new one appeared.

I'm wondering who to contact? local councils? parish councils? BT openreach? someone somewhere must know what happened.

In theory, theory and practice are identical.....in practice they aren't!
Standard User da_flash
(committed) Thu 30-May-13 17:01:32
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: Myth] [link to this post]
 
Email Openreach and ask.

[email protected]

Expect at least a 10 working day wait for a reply.

Cheers C
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 30-May-13 23:18:46
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: da_flash] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by da_flash:
Is there a smaller power cabinet there? Also is it still covered? Mine has been in with power for at least 6 months and still no FTTC available. Mine also has disappeared off the checker as well.
Are you saying that as well as the existing PCP, that a power cabinet has been added as well as the FTTC one? That would be the first setup like that we have heard of here.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 53.4/16.8Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User da_flash
(committed) Fri 31-May-13 18:56:05
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Yes the copper CAB is on the left side of a junction as you drive out of it. On the right side is the fibre CAB and about a few feet from it is another green box about 2feet tall which I saw Openreach and an electrical company working on together several months ago.

Is the smaller box not related then?

Cheers C
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 31-May-13 23:02:01
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Re: New info on BT checker. What do you think it means?


[re: da_flash] [link to this post]
 
Sounds like it is. Just unusual smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 53.4/16.8Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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