FTTPoD Pricing

FTTPoD now appears in the BT Wholesale Price List.

ECCs = Excess Construction Charges, prices here.

KCI2 = Keeping Customers Informed 2 - this is how Openreach communicate the quote to BT Wholesale, etc.

At 500m you're looking at a bill of at least £2,700 including VAT. £600 install and £2,100 for blown fibre in ducting.

Have you costed that at 500m of ducting at 4.20 per m?

Given that all but the last 60 metre would be shared - the sum is not that simple, and I believe the Charge Bands 0 to 5 apply.

Now looking for definition of the bands

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Have you costed that at 500m of ducting at 4.20 per m?

Given that all but the last 60 metre would be shared - the sum is not that simple, and I believe the Charge Bands 0 to 5 apply.

Now looking for definition of the bands

No, I costed it at 500m of blown fibre in an already present duct.

EDIT: New ductwork starts at 42.0 per metre.

The charge bands don't mean anything - they're the costs a customer is willing to pay and if the quote goes above the authorised charge band Openreach will inform Wholesale via ECI 2 to check before proceeding.

ECC banding gives you the power to pre-authorise an acceptable ECC limit on a per order basis in order to avoid unnecessary delay.
Once a band is selected, if the level of banding is sufficient to cover the order, we will proceed with it.

These are the same bands as used for WLR and can be found here.

Edited by deleted (Mon 18-Feb-13 22:39:41)

But given its PON and not Point to Point, the first person is not paying for all the excess costs.

first person would probably need 440m blowing, and then the final 60m to them. Thus one could expect the costs of the 440m to be split between possible take-up.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

But given its PON and not Point to Point, the first person is not paying for all the excess costs.

first person would probably need 440m blowing, and then the final 60m to them. Thus one could expect the costs of the 440m to be split between possible take-up.

I'm not convinced Openreach will make any assumptions over take up - why would they? The first customer to order will need 500m of ECC, so why would they not be charged that full ECC cost?

I see your point though - you question whether the customer would be charged the full cost from AN to customer or just their drop.

A bit more than was being suggested then.

Only - I don't understand the difference between the "fixed connection" row which invokes the ECCs and the "Migration" row which doesn't. Those two lines also have an oddity regarding the minimum term.

The £63.60pm line rental is a bit hefty, as presumably MSIL capacity charges also need to be considered before end-user pricing is determined by the ISP.

The ECC charges there that you highlight refer to "Charge bands". Is the jump from there to the £2700 you give coming from KCI2, as the ECCs document you link to doesn't mention them. It just works on metre lengths.

Edit - "Strike" because of the posts that occurred during replying to the OP.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 18-Feb-13 22:55:39)

and a 36 month minimum contract

If I had no phone line, could I claim the first £3400 exemption from excess construction costs for the USO phone line in requesting a FTTPoD line (tongue in cheek)

Why? Because that is what I've been told in discussions

Only - I don't understand the difference between the "fixed connection" row which invokes the ECCs and the "Migration" row which doesn't. Those two lines also have an oddity regarding the minimum term.

The migration charge is also £500 per month !! A typo I suspect, but like you I don't see why there isn't an ECC element on migrating from ADSL to FTTPoD etc.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Why? Because that is what I've been told in discussions

I very much hope that is the case, what I've been told has been quite equivocal.

The first £3400 (exc VAT) of charges will not be raised for the first line provided at the site.

So if I was buying a new build house that had no Openreach connectivity yet? I could potentially request fibre to be ran instead and have £3400 knocked off the bill?

I say this because i've just put a deposit down to buy a new build house off plan!

that was tongue in cheek speculation. The £3400 exemption applies to a phone line to a new property, so there is at least half an argument to apply the same to a fibre equivalent.

There is a footnote to the ECC pricing table :-

"If the customer requests a method of providing service which is more costly than the least cost network solution Openreach would normally provide it will charge the customer the actual charges for this requested method of providing service less the lower of either:

(a) the exemption or;

(b) the full charges for the least cost network solution"

If your house is in a new development the developer could provide FTTP ducting or indeed an FTTP solution to all the houses, which would be the most cost effective solution.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Now looking for definition of the bands

Andrew,

I'm pretty sure, remembering that these are wholesale prices, those bands are only relevant for ISPs who are rolling the install costs into an ongoing charge. As with WLR 3 they pre-authorise Wholesale to go to a certain charge band and they then place the order.

I don't think these actually have any relevance to the end user.

I really hope you're right about it only being the final drop that's excess charges!

In reply to a post by mabibby:

The first £3400 (exc VAT) of charges will not be raised for the first line provided at the site.

So if I was buying a new build house that had no Openreach connectivity yet? I could potentially request fibre to be ran instead and have £3400 knocked off the bill?

I say this because i've just put a deposit down to buy a new build house off plan!

Nope - unless the estate is to be all Virgin Media the developer will have already arranged Openreach connection and you can't order fibre until you've an address to order it to.

Sorry

Only if a broadband uso was put in place though or phone could only possibly be supplied using fibre voice access than.

I really hope you're right about it only being the final drop that's excess charges!

You would hope the £50+ per month * 36 months was contributing something to the capital cost

You will pay a share for the 440m the final 60m drop is in the fixed 500 fee

Making one person pay for 32 way splitter totally is unfair, same with the manifold.

Well it's certainly following the principle of charging for the service provided, rather than on a cost-plus basis!

Am i reading the ECC list right, and are Openreach proposing to allow Fiber to go via existing telegraph poles?

If so this will massively cut the costs for a lot of people, where they are serviced via telegraph poles, and will make it affordable. Some basic calculations if this is true

1000m run on poles would be £~10,000 for BT
1000m underground (roads) would be £~150,000

Massive Difference in price. For the first figure if it is say 20 properties serviced at the end, then would only be £500 each (+£500 connection charge), while for underground would be close to £10,000 each.

It seems to be if you aren't connected by Telegraph poles, or damn close to the aggregate point it�s going to be out of the reach for any but the very wealthy.

Not proposing they already are
http://blog.thinkbroadband.com/2012/11/spotters-guid...

We need to see the band definition rather than working to ECC list

the end user is buying the fiber?

If that £2100 is for the manpower work then they have worded it badly.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Not proposing they already are
http://blog.thinkbroadband.com/2012/11/spotters-guid...

We need to see the band definition rather than working to ECC list

As I mentioned the band definition is nothing more than a pre-authorisation of a certain spend on excess construction.

It's the exact same banding as on WLR 3 - remember that these are wholesale charges not end user so there are options to roll a band into a monthly fee.

I see the survey fee for ECC is £350 - does that put the minimum connection fee at £850 ?

Not if a 'desk survey' can be carried out.

Survey Fee, applicable when an initial site survey is carried out by Openreach or a resurvey is requested. Chargeable only when the customer agrees to pay for excess construction charges as detailed below. Not applicable where desk surveys can be completed without a site visit.

sound. Google streetview to the rescue

So can I begin to order this FTTPod service yet then? If not, any ideas when I will be able to?

Its currently in early market deployment areas, so a small list of exchanges where people can order the service to test the ordering service and deployment in the market.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5811-fibre-on-dem...

Once its completed Openreach will then move fowards towards full market deployment, this could be end of the year or even early 2014, have to wait for a update from Openreach.

So will this product be available for any ISP to offer from an FTTC-enabled exchange, or will it be dependent on ISPs having a "presence" in the exchange (similar to LLU?).

My rural exchange currently has received no LLU interest, so I have to hope that (when this product is successfully through trials) I can order from a regular ISP (like BT Broadband/PlusNet/whoever) without them needing a bunch of other orders at the same exchange to justify it.

Apologies if I'm showing too much ignorance on the subject - I'm ramping up as fast as I can since discovering this light at the end of my (2 mile long) tunnel that might actually see me get of ADSL Max in the next year or two!

Cheers,

Maurice

The Isp's will have to decide if they will offer this service and most use the BT wholesale network for their backhaul, so BT Plus Net etc would be fine to order from.

Sky and TT have their own networks and without a GEA link between their equipement and the BT wholesale they will not offer a FTTC service- FOD may be different but we dont know yet.

Just have to wait for futher updates from Openreach as to when the product will finally launch.

FoD is the same as GEA FTTP service at the exchange end and as such is sent to the wholesale operators, BT Wholesale, Sky and TalkTalk over the GEA cable link that they purchase at the handover exchange.

Given Sky and TalkTalk have not started to offer FTTP in areas where it is the only option, I cannot see them bothering with FoD, it is something that will not appeal to their high volume sales market.