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Standard User gnoonan
(newbie) Sat 23-Feb-13 01:29:40
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Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[link to this post]
 
Hello,

I'm about to embark on some major works on the ground floor of my house. The walls and floors will be coming up so it is the perfect time to prepare for FTTH so it can be installed with the minimum clutter on the walls.

I have the space under the stairs in the same area which is where modems, routers, NTE's etc... will hopefully end up. I've found a developers guide for Openreach and they talk about preparing the house with duct 25/17. It doesn't really say much about what else is needed. Am I wrong in guessing the "blowing" process will send a fibre from outside to the point inside where the duct terminates? Will observing the minimum bend radius be sufficient? And where to find this ducting.... nothing seems to come up on searches.

Is this ducting what blown tubing would then be fed through by Openreach so they could then blow through a fibre through to the final termination point? Could I get my hands on any of this tube if this is how it is done?

Otherwise do I run my own fibre which termination and fibre type should I use? Ideally I would drill through to the external side of the house and coil a metre or two inside a PVC weatherproof housing. This all has to do with the termination into the BT modem and which type of fibre they would splice when they finally dig outside.

Any help or suggestions will be much appreciated, cheapest solutions that leave BT to the kit but have the same result of less stuff on the walls would be best.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Sat 23-Feb-13 10:37:51
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: gnoonan] [link to this post]
 
Good question. A minimum would probably be a 25mm duct from an access chamber outside to your preferred location inside, laid to the radius requirements and with a pull rope inside it. The Openreach new build specs talk of laying a single fibre tube inside the duct along with the rope and the fibre would be blown along that.

The tube is 6mm, and there's a note about spec -

"The minimum bend radius for the tubing is 72 mm.
 The maximum distance the external tube can be installed into the building is 2 metres. If the distance from the point of entry is greater than 2m then the tube needs to be
connected to an internal single 2.7/6mm RFH (Reduced Fire Hazard) tubing. "


http://www.radiustelecoms.com/products/fttx-microtub... has some tech specs, don't know where to buy it retail.

25/17 sounds like 4mm wall thickness as the convention is OD/ID.Good luck and well done for thinking ahead !

Edit to add: Openreach ask for 56mm ducting if there's to be copper or copper and fibre.

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics

Edited by yarwell (Sat 23-Feb-13 10:44:06)

Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Sat 23-Feb-13 18:29:04
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: gnoonan] [link to this post]
 
The fibre will be provided to a 'customer splice point' which will be wall mounted above the duct mouth of the UG feed (unless you are fed over head). This will be Openreach's doing. As for what you could do. A small conduit provided from the area of the external feed to the space under the stairs. No sharp bends, and a draw cord within, will allow the installer to pull in the connectorized fibre lead in to where required, this would be the neatest solution.


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Standard User gnoonan
(newbie) Sat 23-Feb-13 23:31:33
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Thanks very much for your ideas.

I'm assuming that an Openreach installer would be able to polish and splice a fibre when and if we ever get offered FTTH. I'd

just need to make sure of two things, the type of fibre and termination to the BT fibre router if I a.

Are there any people here who have had experience with the installation that can tell me what sort of fibre Openreach will use?

I'm guessing 50/125 OM4 or 9/125 OS1 or OS2?

What connector would be used at the modem end and joining the other end to the street feed would be a splice? I understand this could also be spliced and coiled inside a wallbox outside. Some of the diagrams I see are not the most ideal so I'd rather have the splice point outside and all the equipment you see under the stairs.

http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a494/n00dles71/O...

If you see here I have drawn in brown where I would rather the Customer Splice Point and run duct down through the wall on an angle to the duct can then bend at a lesser angle to head off under the floor. I'm planning on hiring a wall tracker which will cut the channel in the brick so it should hopefully come up all tidy in the end. This would make Zarjaz's idea the cheapest one I guess without the problem of future clutter.

Is it worth running the tube the same time? I found a place that looks like it will sell tubing by the metre so for 10 metres cost is irrelevant;
http://mcldatasolutions.co.uk/8-core-loose-tube-fibr...

I'm guessing this down some ducting will make for a happy Openreach install engineer (if they ever make it) and a much happier wife with less cables and clutter.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Sun 24-Feb-13 13:37:18
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: gnoonan] [link to this post]
 
Openreach will own the connection until it's terminated on an active ONT and converted to copper so the type of fibre and connectors used aren't really a worry to you, just ensuring there's a viable path for the fibre from the splice point to where the powered ONT will live which fits your requirements is all you need.

EDIT: Have a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_gUBw8gh90

Edited by Ignitionnet (Sun 24-Feb-13 13:38:21)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 24-Feb-13 14:00:22
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: gnoonan] [link to this post]
 
The splicing stops at the outside of the property. After that pre made runs of fibre that will survive the home environment are used, with connectors already on the ONT end, and a single splice is done outside to connect it to the fibre from the street.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_gUBw8gh90&feature=p...

The information is all in http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/network/develop...

Openreach will not use any fibre you install, so you just need the right size ducting

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 11-Mar-13 21:49:21
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: gnoonan] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by gnoonan:
I'm assuming that an Openreach installer would be able to polish and splice a fibre when and if we ever get offered FTTH. I'd

just need to make sure of two things, the type of fibre and termination to the BT fibre router if I a.

Are there any people here who have had experience with the installation that can tell me what sort of fibre Openreach will use?
Zarjaz is an Openreach FTTC & FTTP/H installer!

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 541/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User mattaitken
(newbie) Mon 26-Jan-15 20:42:44
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Zarjaz

I gather you're an Openreach FTTC & FTTP/H installer, so I'm hoping you can help... I've recently started a fairly major project to split our family home in two, and having previously thought about gas, electric, and water, realised the heinous omission of phone & broadband only last week. We now have a set schedule with the drive being dug up next week, national grid putting in a new gas connection the week after, and western power distribution putting in electric the week after, with water works underway somewhere in the midst. The date for BT to visit (since emergency phone calls starting on Friday) is right at the end, and to make matters harder, the drive is also a public footpath, so the council will only allow the footpath closing for three weeks. Hence we need to re-fill the driveway trenches 2 days after the BT OpenReach survey!! I think it's going to be too late to get ducting/cables sorted at that point, so I'm desperately trying to find out what we need so we can get them ordered ahead of all this.

We don't currently have the option for a fibre connection, but I'd like to lay the duct/cable whilst the drive is up. However, I guess I also need to lay the copper duct/cable for a real connection to last until fibre becomes available. I've looked at the video posted on this thread (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_gUBw8gh90), and I've reviewed the developer guide, but I'm not sure whether/where I can get the materials, and how critical it is that they're what Openreach would use themselves.

I appreciate this is a huge ask resulting from my own lack of planning (oh, the benefit of hindsight!), but I'd be extremely grateful for any assistance you can give re what I should lay (just duct? duct and cable? what end points) and where I can get it.

Thanks smile
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 26-Jan-15 21:58:06
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: mattaitken] [link to this post]
 
Ducting of the spec for copper phone line is sufficient for the final drop fibre to a home

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Tue 27-Jan-15 03:13:04
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: mattaitken] [link to this post]
 
Openreach have a department called "New Sites" that help with developers, and ought to be able to answer your questions.

Do these links help?

http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/contactus/conne...

http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/contactus/conne...
Standard User eckiedoo
(experienced) Tue 27-Jan-15 09:50:45
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Minor point-

Should any pull rope/cord be slightly over twice the length of the duct, so that it can be returned to "storage" within the duct, available if required again in the future?
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Tue 27-Jan-15 09:59:37
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by eckiedoo:
Minor point-

Should any pull rope/cord be slightly over twice the length of the duct, so that it can be returned to "storage" within the duct, available if required again in the future?


Can be useful, however can you imagine an underground chamber or manhole with maybe 5 coils or rope each one over 100m long being stored. And will it always start at the correct end?

A better way is to tie a second cord to the first along with the cable, pull both through and then use the new cord to pull the original rope back.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 27-Jan-15 10:57:57
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Or just untie the original from the new as well as from the cable?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 57.2/15.0Mbps @ 600m. - IPv4BQM IPv6BQM

"Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly." - G K Chesterton.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Tue 27-Jan-15 11:03:52
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
The new will come off a drum and is much easier to roll it back on and store.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User eckiedoo
(experienced) Tue 27-Jan-15 11:23:45
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Thanks to you both, MHC and Zarjaz.

It was in part to remind the OP that there is this complication, should there be a later need to pull more cables/fibres through the same duct.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 28-Jan-15 18:07:20
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: mattaitken] [link to this post]
 
I must admit, I suspect you've damned the telephony side of things time-wise. As Mr.S says, try the new sites team. They *may* be able to get some duct out to you in time for it go in to the open trench .... but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Fri 30-Jan-15 09:29:41
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: mattaitken] [link to this post]
 
I would lay duct with a rope in it to the BT standards in the developer guide. Use large radii for future fibre.

http://www.draindepot.co.uk/index.asp?u=107&m=&cat=3...

HTH

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User mattaitken
(newbie) Fri 30-Jan-15 09:40:13
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH *DELETED*


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by mattaitken
Standard User mattaitken
(newbie) Fri 30-Jan-15 09:50:23
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks everyone! I'm new to this forum and thought I'd get emails if anyone replied, so had assumed inbox silence meant no responses. Delighted to see I was wrong smile

I found a PDF developer guide on one of the links here and it says Duct56 for copper and fibre, but I wasn't 100% sure it meant both in the same duct so thanks for clarifying, MrSaffron!

WWWombat, I've tried New Sites at Openreach and even got as far as sending them an application form last week, but they rejected it when they realised it wasn't a new BUILD and we live in the property that's being developed. I have in no uncertain terms been redirected to make a consumer broadband subscription order in order to trigger the process for a BT site survey. Hence last Fri I signed up with PlusNet who tell me Openreach with be out on 18th Feb, 2 days before the council require the trenches are filled in! crazy thanks nonetheless for the suggestion.

yarwell, that link looks GREAT - thank you. As zarjaz says, it looks like I'm on my own time-wise, so underground prep is where it's at. I think this link along with the confirmation from MrS gives me what I need (duct and rope) to have the underground bit sorted. As long as nothing goes wrong with the pull cord, all should be well.

Having said that, we'll have to see whether they're willing to lay fibre alongside copper in an area where we don't yet have a fibre option. I hope so!

If anyone thinks 50mm duct and a draw-rope is insufficient, please let me know ASAP, but otherwise I shall toddle off and purchase lots of each.

thanks again smile
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 30-Jan-15 10:25:08
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: mattaitken] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mattaitken:
Thanks everyone! I'm new to this forum and thought I'd get emails if anyone replied, so had assumed inbox silence meant no responses. Delighted to see I was wrong smile


There is an option when you post to "E-mail all replies to my real e-mail address". Not turned on by default as with the number of posts some people make their inbox would be flooded wink

There is also an option in your user account settings to automatically send replies via email and also for PMs.

Edited by ian72 (Fri 30-Jan-15 10:26:24)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 30-Jan-15 10:40:18
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: mattaitken] [link to this post]
 
If you stick to the spec of the developers guide, and maybe put two lots of ducting in to be absolutely safe (compared to the hassle later when doing it yourself it is worthwhile)

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User mattaitken
(newbie) Fri 30-Jan-15 11:45:30
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
thanks Ian. Nice to see "don't flood me with email" as the default setting for a change! smile

presumably even if I want fibre and copper, I'll need two lengths of pull-cord even if I have a single duct? The link to buy the stuff does next day delivery so I may see what mr openreach says and grab a second run in a rush if we need it. I'll get plenty of pull cord to do the distance twice. I presume we should be able to pull a second length of cord up with the first cable run?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 30-Jan-15 11:47:37
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: mattaitken] [link to this post]
 
I've leave those who have played with Openreach duct to explain. My digging around in ducts only goes as far as some limited playtime at wet festivals and that is a blur now

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 30-Jan-15 12:09:10
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: mattaitken] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mattaitken:
thanks Ian. Nice to see "don't flood me with email" as the default setting for a change! smile
The options are at the bottom of the page of the "My Home" tab. Also on that page, the "Favourite forums" a lot of us use instead of the huge Forum Index.
I'll need two lengths of pull-cord even if I have a single duct? The link to buy the stuff does next day delivery so I may see what mr openreach says and grab a second run in a rush if we need it. I'll get plenty of pull cord to do the distance twice. I presume we should be able to pull a second length of cord up with the first cable run?
Three lengths if you lay two ducts.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 57.2/15.0Mbps @ 600m. - IPv4BQM IPv6BQM

"Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly." - G K Chesterton.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 30-Jan-15 12:09:34)

Standard User MHC
(sensei) Fri 30-Jan-15 12:11:24
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: mattaitken] [link to this post]
 
You can put two lengths in - they do have a habit of twisting around each other though. Just recently it took me about 2 hours to pull 25 metres because cable had been badly run and twisted.

As you say an installed single length can be enough. The cable and another rope are attached and pulled through. The second rope is used to pull the first one back. Just leave a few metres at each end, attached to a block that is too big to be pulled into the duct.

Just check everything with OR when they visit.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit

Edited by MHC (Fri 30-Jan-15 12:15:16)

Standard User mattaitken
(newbie) Fri 30-Jan-15 14:03:34
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Re: Home refurb - how to prepare for FTTH


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
spot on - thanks smile
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