FTTC available but no ports available with provider

Hi All,

I tried to get my DSL connection with Sky switched over to Fibre the other day, and the order got accepted. I have now just had a phone call from Sky telling me that they they have had to cancel the order because their are no ports available.

What exactly does this mean? The Cab that Im connected to is full and that regardless of provider Im not going to be able to get Fibre!?

Or the GEA link (between Openreach and the Sky MSAN) they have there, or the MSAN itself is full. (Even though you are already on it).

If the cabinet >> PCP links are full Openreach usually add more fairly quickly. If the FTTC cabinet is full they usually add another.

Ok, well talking to Sky again, the chap mentioned that there are no more "slots available on the dslam" and he said that I would probably have the same issue if I tried to order with another provider.

Is that actually the case? Is there anyway to get information from Openreach about capacity?

If they mean the Openreach DSLAM, if it just needs more line cards then fairly quick.

If it is fully populated with line cards and all ports in use, i.e. all 288 lines are occupied (for full size cab) then it will be a few months possibly.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Or the GEA link (between Openreach and the Sky MSAN) they have there, or the MSAN itself is full. (Even though you are already on it).

No he isn't, the GEA Cablelink only carries FTTx traffic, and doesn't go to a Sky MSAN but to a Sky switch. The Sky MSANs connect to that switch also, as does the backhaul from the exchange to either the Sky network or the next exchange on the daisy chain.

There are no capacity issues with Sky's MSANs in terms of ports that could affect availability of FTTC, the only thing that may cause rejection of an order is lack of ports on the Openreach MSAN or the tie pairs between PCP and MSAN.

Edited by deleted (Fri 15-Mar-13 10:21:54)

http://blog.thinkbroadband.com/2012/11/spotters-guid...

Scroll down to the cabinets inside the exchange and you can see the business side of the exchange handover node, with the GEA cablelinks on the left hand side

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Or the GEA link (between Openreach and the Sky MSAN) they have there, or the MSAN itself is full. (Even though you are already on it).

No he isn't, the GEA Cablelink only carries FTTx traffic, and doesn't go to a Sky MSAN but to a Sky switch. The Sky MSANs connect to that switch also, as does the backhaul from the exchange to either the Sky network or the next exchange on the daisy chain.

There are no capacity issues with Sky's MSANs in terms of ports that could affect availability of FTTC, the only thing that may cause rejection of an order is lack of ports on the Openreach MSAN or the tie pairs between PCP and MSAN.

You take my broad brush answer and apply a silly amount of detail, ending up with a statement which is meaningless and clearly cannot be correct.

The logical conclusion of "the GEA Cablelink only carries FTTx traffic, and doesn't go to a Sky MSAN but to a Sky switch. The Sky MSANs connect to that switch also" is that a single GEA link can carry an unlimited number of FTTx connections from the Openreach incoming circuits to an unspecified number of Sky MSANs (that don't have ports on line cards allocated to connections and can accept an unlimited number of circuits) via a Sky switch that can handle an unlimited number of connections.

Well that just sucks then. SO going by what he said, there wouldn't be any hope of getting Fibre with another provider.

The new green cab over the road from Cab 3 that I'm connected to is probably about 4 foot in hight. Im guess that means they would have to stick another cab in for fibre. Well I just can't see that ever happening.

Why wouldn't they add another cab? They have elsewhere.

You will never know until you try!.

Try contacting BT Retail or Plusnet, be honest and say Sky have told you they cannot supply the service due to lack of ports. You may find that it is not ports on the Cabinet that are short but capacity on the GEA between the Handover point and the Sky network and Sky do not want to buy additional GEA ports as they cannot see enough future demand to fill an additional GEA.

If there are no ports on the Cab you will get the same answer as Sky so no loss, if it is something to do with Sky you will get the fibre service you want but from a supplier that may not otherwise be your first choice.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You take my broad brush answer and apply a silly amount of detail, ending up with a statement which is meaningless and clearly cannot be correct.

The logical conclusion of "the GEA Cablelink only carries FTTx traffic, and doesn't go to a Sky MSAN but to a Sky switch. The Sky MSANs connect to that switch also" is that a single GEA link can carry an unlimited number of FTTx connections from the Openreach incoming circuits to an unspecified number of Sky MSANs (that don't have ports on line cards allocated to connections and can accept an unlimited number of circuits) via a Sky switch that can handle an unlimited number of connections.

Sorry Bob but no idea what you're talking about, I just said that the Sky MSANs do not connect to the GEA Cablelink, which they don't.

If there are no ports available on Sky MSANs to terminate the voice service they'll deliver via WLR as they always have in those instances, however that's not the FTTC service, that's the copper line.

The basic premise of your above argument, regarding GEA links taking Openreach circuits to Sky MSANs, is incorrect. The Sky MSANs and the GEA Cablelink go to the same place and on their way out of the exchange are separated only by VLAN IDs however the Cablelink doesn't touch the MSANs themselves, they're just a conduit for what's coming off the copper onto the Sky network.

In my post to which you objected I was, in general terms, merely telling the poster that the connectivity of the Sky equipment in the exchange may be fully committed.

You implied that with a GEA link for Sky installed there was no limit to the number of FTTC customers they could accommodate. That has to be incorrect.

The physical detail of that connectivity, whether it be by hardware port or software virtual port is irrelevant. It is quite feasible for there to be FTTC connectivity for a user from the premises to the exchange, and for BTW and possibly TT to be able to offer an FTTC service, whilst Sky cannot.

The only quibble, which I would have to accept, can be with my referring to MSAN ports, where my meaning was available Sky connections.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 15-Mar-13 22:27:43)

I am already on Sky as a DSL customer, would that have any effect on your discussion? Would I not already be using that connection?

I'm not sure, which is why I mentioned it originally.

IgnitionNet could be correct that an additional conventional port is not required, but that doesn't alter my opinion that the SKY FTTC connectivity at the exchange may be fully utilised at the moment, whereas other suppliers may have spare capacity. My use of the word "Port" in the first place may be the root of the issue.

Re your already being on SKY LLU, there are two cases to consider.

The first is the normal one, that the FTTC exchange is the same as the phone one, but many exchanges that are FTTC-enabled don't have FTTC kit installed. Instead, the FTTC cabinets are connected to a nearby one but the phone stays with the existing one. IIRC we can sometimes tell that from the information we have about cabinets, if we know the postcode.

The existing port connection raises a question that I'd always assumed I knew the answer to, but now wonder if I'm right. No-one has ever challenged me when I've said anything about it. To avoid complicating this thread I shall start a new one .

I know that the cab that I am connected to has a new cab connected to it which contains FTTC kit and has the FTTC adverts plastered all over it.

How long has that new FTTC cab been there? If very recently, it could be that Sky have not yet installed the GEA link they need at the exchange, which has been mentioned earlier.

In which case any BT Wholesale supplier will be able to provide now. But Sky will probably be along in a few weeks.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In my post to which you objected I was, in general terms, merely telling the poster that the connectivity of the Sky equipment in the exchange may be fully committed.

You implied that with a GEA link for Sky installed there was no limit to the number of FTTC customers they could accommodate. That has to be incorrect.

Apart from bandwidth there is no practical limit. The Openreach kit is standard 802.1ad fare so giving a VLAN per Sky customer the practical limit is 65,534 customers.

Capacity in terms of bandwidth may be a different story, however given Sky continue taking on ADSL customers when exchanges are congested I can't see why their policy would be any different on FTTC, not to mention that you can fit an awful lot of 40Mb customers with the odd 80Mb onto a GigE. With FTTC uptake running at 10% overall with 90% of that being BT Retail / Plusnet does it seem likely that Sky are seeing issues at handover points already?

Its been there for a couple of months, so my guess is its the ports in the cab that they are out of.

I'm just going to have to keep calling Sky to get them to try to put the order in again and again until it goes through.

An Update,

So after contacting openreach enquiries, and them saying that there is capacity, I submitted the order again for it to be cancelled again for the same reason.

Ive spoken to Sky and they have said that all of their systems for checking that the order can be sent to openreach says that I can have FTTC, however once the order gets submitted to openreach, they are basically cancelling the order saying that the cabinet is full.

I guess there is a difference in data held by NGA enquiry team and what the actual order processing team have!?

I guess I am now at the mercy of emailing NGA all the [censored] time!?

Sky should be doing that!

In reply to a post by leaskovski:

Ive spoken to Sky and they have said that all of their systems for checking that the order can be sent to openreach says that I can have FTTC, however once the order gets submitted to openreach, they are basically cancelling the order saying that the cabinet is full.

I had the same response back in Sept 2012. By chance has your FTTC cabinet only just gone live?

If so I'm thinking its possible that the GEA cable link hasn't been installed yet at the exchange which links Sky (or TalkTalk) to the Openreach fibre kit.

Other ISPs (e.g. BT Infinity, PlusNet, Zen etc) use the BT Wholesale network (WBC) and so don't need to install GEA Cable Links to be able to use your cabinet.

I think it went live earlier in the year. I guess it might be a possibility that this is the case.

I wonder if this is something that the NGA Enquiries can tell me?