General Discussion
  >> Fibre Broadband


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User Computerman142
(newbie) Sat 30-Mar-13 22:00:53
Print Post

Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socket?


[link to this post]
 
Hi there

About a year ago I moved my master socket into a different room, while I moved it I also replaced it with the new BT Openreach branded one. Between the new master socket and where the line comes in I have used aluminum alarm cable which is working well. But I am wondering will the fibre engineer still let me have fibre optic even though I have moved my master socket and upgraded it to a new one myself. Or will he/she not care about it and carry on installing a new filtered VDSL faceplate? Or will they want to rip it all out and re do all the wiring again which I don't want them to do?

Thanks
Standard User arendall667
(regular) Sat 30-Mar-13 22:56:43
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
I think you may have violated BT’s terms of service by moving the master socket. I think in layman’s terms only BT engineers are supposed to service / change anything up to and including the master socket.

The following comments come from Thinkbroadband’s guides to faceplates (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/tools/bt-master-socket.html) and fitting a new face plate (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/faq/sections/install.html#226).

“A Standard rectangular faceplate is shown (left) removed from the master socket (centre) and back-box (right). You should not remove the master socket from the back-box as this is BT property and should be opened by engineers only.”

&

“This is a master socket with its faceplate lifted off. ON NO ACCOUNT DISMANTLE THE WALL SOCKET ANY FURTHER. Consumers can change the faceplate but the part screwed to the wall must be maintained by BT.”

I believe I have also read that aluminium does not conduct ADSL signals as well as copper but this may not matter due to the short length of cable involved (I think the article was about aluminium vs copper phone lines and the SNR values for each).
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 30-Mar-13 23:41:54
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: arendall667] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by arendall667:
The following comments come from Thinkbroadband’s guides to faceplates ( http://www.thinkbroadband.com/tools/bt-master-socket... ) and fitting a new face plate ( http://www.thinkbroadband.com/faq/sections/install.h... ).


1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User worldofadsl
(knowledge is power) Sat 30-Mar-13 23:45:01
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
I imagine they will put the master socket back where it was to start with and run an extension socket to the new location. The cable you have used could have a detrimental effect on your service. Why did you not use telephone cable or CAT5/5e/6/etc?

Edited by worldofadsl (Sat 30-Mar-13 23:46:22)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 30-Mar-13 23:59:49
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
Rip it out and or charge you.

Since when was alarm cable suitable for a complex rf signal?

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Computerman142
(newbie) Sun 31-Mar-13 10:09:44
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
Hi there

Thanks for your replies

I guess that means I am screwed then, as I don't want them to rip it all out as I originally moved the master socket as it was in the most stupid place and all the wires that I put in aren't easily accessible. So I guess the wont let me have fibre or will they? And as for the alarm wire, didn't know what else to use, when we move the socket it looked like there was a small length of alarm cable between the small junction box where the line comes in to the master socket.

Thanks
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Sun 31-Mar-13 10:27:11
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
He may revert your master to the original location and install there. But be prepared for a charge and maybe a warning letter from BT.

Unless he is having a really bad day, he should still install but on his terms.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User Basil1234
(newbie) Sun 31-Mar-13 10:36:20
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
they will let you have it where you like! but upto the master socket is there property and their responsibility so when you contact and it has gone wrong they have to come out to fix it.
my bet will be they will rip out your little fix put it right with there own cable etc and then send you a bill for their work at whatever they charge an hour and that probably be expensive.
simple thing have them out to do fttc see what happens but remember the engineers are trained not to talk about costs and money e.g. some people have phoned up for a fault turned out it was a fault on their wiring after the master socket and nothing was said but a £99 bill was sent out by bt.
example
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t...

also hope doesn't stuff up install as they have all necessary gear on board to do it and extra time as well.
but i think you maybe facing extra bill at worse, you may get lucky though and they just put right with no charge but i would be surprised this is bt!
Standard User ukhardy07
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 31-Mar-13 10:54:38
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
You used ali cabling by choice?
That's crazy. There's nothing worse for broadband.
Standard User Basil1234
(newbie) Sun 31-Mar-13 11:00:37
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
yes he is austerity cabling as he couldn't afford copper or cat5e that required buying some lol smile
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 31-Mar-13 12:10:26
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
Have you ordered the FTTC yet?

If not, you need to make sure the "Home Wiring Solution" (ex Data Extension Cable) is ordered for you.

It's free, but the ISP has to order it. BT Infinity order it automatically, so no worry there. Plusnet I think have the option during the online sign-up. I don't know about any others.

If you've already ordered, you may need to get onto the ISP.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 31-Mar-13 12:10:44)

Standard User R0NSKI
(experienced) Sun 31-Mar-13 14:33:34
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
Why not re-instate the original master socket, then use your wiring as an extension socket, and hopefully nobody will be any the wiser.

Then when the install comes get them to use a data extension kit to put the modem where you need it, or if it's complicated run in some solid core CAT5e cable for them to use.

Standard User Computerman142
(newbie) Sun 31-Mar-13 15:39:31
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Yes I have already ordered FTTC is it coming 2nd April, I am with TalkTalk so I don't what they will do about the home wiring kit. But if they notice the cables that I fitted are wrong which is most likely they will, I will have to let them rip it all out and re-wire it. Or they may not fit fibre but we will see on the day, I guess.
Standard User Computerman142
(newbie) Sun 31-Mar-13 15:42:28
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
I don't have the old master socket any more and where the master socket is now was once an extension from the main master socket. But I will see what happens on the day And what the BT engineer says.
Standard User underzone
(member) Sun 31-Mar-13 19:41:43
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
Dont worry about it. BT dont have records of where your NTE is. Just make a decent job and deny any knowledge if they ask. If you think about it, you could really balls up the wiring before the NTE and they would have to fix/repair it (as it is BT's responsibility up to the NTE) just so long as you say "it has always been like that"!

I think you are worrying too much,

________________________________
BT Infinity 80/20... Getting 74/17 over 550m (ECI modem & cab)
http://www.speedtest.net/result/2304483192.png
Standard User Computerman142
(newbie) Sun 31-Mar-13 20:34:32
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: underzone] [link to this post]
 
I will try not to worry about it buts its only on Tuesday when he comes to fit the fibre, lets hope he is fine with it all and fits a new faceplate without ripping the wires out and charging me. smile
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 31-Mar-13 20:43:21
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
Tea/Coffee and biscuits could be a good idea.

If he's Openreach, (Openreach also sub-contract to Quinn and Kelly), he may take pity when he sees the state of things. Which was like that when you moved in. It could depend on how much time he has spare, as I'm guessing the ordering of the Home Wiring Solution is just to allow extra time.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User worldofadsl
(knowledge is power) Mon 01-Apr-13 00:51:47
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
They will only refit it if the data extension kit is on the order (well that is my understanding).

Personally I would rip it out before the engineer arrives and put the master socket back in the original location.

You do not want the engineer to use the cable because it will effect your service. VDSL is much more susceptible to errors caused by this kind of cable than ADSL as far as I am aware from what I have read.

It seems crazy that people mess round with things like this. Would you go and open your green cab and have a tinker in their as well?
Standard User ukhardy07
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 01-Apr-13 06:19:23
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
I think they will just use the cabling you put in.

If he does notice the bad cabling and question it deny knowing anything about it....

To be honest when my engineer came he just installed the new faceplate. He didn't even look at the cabling behind the test socket so he wouldn't have even known if I had ali cabling used there.

I think the engineer will come. Install the fibre faceplate. Leave. He wont care about the cabling or the affect it'll have on your broadband. All he cares is does it work. YES, job done move on.

I don't have high hopes of openreach through experience. I feel they do whatevers quickiest and easiest. Some are good but overall it's faster the better.

What's definite is that the ali cabling will prob cause much worse speeds on fibre and will probably cause issues.
Standard User Computerman142
(newbie) Mon 01-Apr-13 08:40:25
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Ok, I will see what the engineer does tomorrow, If He doesn't notice the cabling but I get slow speeds I will have to replace the cabling with proper telephone wire, but if works fine I will leave it for now. But if he wants to replace it due to it may affect the fibre broadband, which by your post suggests that he wont be bothered to look, He can replace the wiring.
Standard User dave2150
(experienced) Mon 01-Apr-13 12:22:55
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Rip it out and or charge you.

Since when was alarm cable suitable for a complex rf signal?


BT use alot of aluminium in many areas and haven't bothered to change it to copper for decades. Doubt they will ever change it in my area.

My Broadband Speed Test
60db Attenuation
Standard User Ribble
(committed) Mon 01-Apr-13 12:26:43
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: dave2150] [link to this post]
 
Crucially, alarm cable isn't twisted pair. Likely to have a negative impact on a VDSL connection
Standard User gazzyk1ns
(committed) Mon 01-Apr-13 19:02:48
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Ribble] [link to this post]
 
Yes.

If it was me, I'd rip out the alarm wire so that it can't possibly be re-used in whatever solution you eventually end up having, screw the faceplate back on and then say "I dunno what the [censored] previous tenant did...". As has been said, BT don't know your internal wiring and they don't know when you moved in, or what the previous tenants did to the wiring. Or indeed what you did to the wiring.
Standard User Dick_B
(regular) Tue 02-Apr-13 15:25:45
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
How did it go?
Standard User Computerman142
(newbie) Tue 02-Apr-13 16:35:27
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Dick_B] [link to this post]
 
Good, the engineer wasn't bothered, he just installed the face plate and the modem. I now have a good stable speed of about 25Mbps. I Dont even know why I worried about it lol.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 02-Apr-13 17:07:36
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
So the aluminium untwisted pair cable is still in place?

How does the 25 Mbps compare to the estimate? 25 Mbps is the sort of speed you would expect for a 900m or longer cabinet to premises distance

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Computerman142
(newbie) Tue 02-Apr-13 17:20:24
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Yes it is still alarm wire, but I will probably change it after the ten day testing period, the estimate is 40mbps but my friend 3 doors away down the road is only get 25Mbps as well. and may cabinet is about 0.6miles away or slightly more, thought there is one about 200meters away but the engineer says I'm not connected to that one. I used the cool web home website the fibre checker and the speed increase is only 5.51 from the cabinet I am connected to which when i times my old speed with the 5.51 it gave around 25Mbps. The engineer said the speed I had was the maximum I would get anyway due to the distance of the cabinet from my house.

Edited by Computerman142 (Tue 02-Apr-13 17:25:39)

Standard User gazzyk1ns
(committed) Tue 02-Apr-13 21:42:49
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
You need to get that alarm wire out of there. Seriously.

5.51 is the figure which you should expect to multiply your ADSL2+ speed by. The engineer was of course just making chit-chat and getting out of there. You might have left it too late now, though. Involving the alarm wire was a mistake, sadly.

The cabinet info given to you by the engineer will be correct though, it doesn't have to be the cabinet nearest to you. And he'll have definitely been at your cabinet in order to connect you to FTTC, so he won't have made a mistake.

Edited by gazzyk1ns (Tue 02-Apr-13 21:45:16)

Standard User Computerman142
(newbie) Tue 02-Apr-13 22:04:32
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: gazzyk1ns] [link to this post]
 
Yes I will hopefully its just I have to strip half of the wall to remove the wires so it may be a few weeks to a month before I do it. I have been looking for some telephone cable but whats the difference between 4W and 6W telephone cable? http://www.maplin.co.uk/telephone-cable-type-cw1308-66 I saw this and I thought that would be ok, but I would have to order 20 units as that makes 20 meters, just to make sure I have enough spare just in case. Doesn't FTTC have a 10 day training period?, if so is it best to wait until after the 10 days before I fit the telephone cable? Odd thing is the Engineer said the cable was ok, I am starting to wonder whether if it was alarm cable I used or whether he just want to go which is most likely.
Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Tue 02-Apr-13 22:16:37
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Computerman142:
Yes I will hopefully its just I have to strip half of the wall to remove the wires so it may be a few weeks to a month before I do it. I have been looking for some telephone cable but whats the difference between 4W and 6W telephone cable? http://www.maplin.co.uk/telephone-cable-type-cw1308-66 I saw this and I thought that would be ok, but I would have to order 20 units as that makes 20 meters, just to make sure I have enough spare just in case. Doesn't FTTC have a 10 day training period?, if so is it best to wait until after the 10 days before I fit the telephone cable? Odd thing is the Engineer said the cable was ok, I am starting to wonder whether if it was alarm cable I used or whether he just want to go which is most likely.


He probably saw it was connected and thought "that will do" and wanted to get to the next job. If he was an old-school openreach guy he might have thought its a low sync but assumed there was ali in the street perhaps. The lack of regular twists will likely have more effect than the ali at that distance - but without changing it you won't know.

Don't worry about the 10 day thing, that's generally completely misunderstood.

James BT Infinity 2 19/09/2012 - Speeds ~46 / ~8.5 Mbps - Sync 48.9 / 10 Mbps @ 470m
Huawei modem -> Draytek 2820 -> Airport Extreme -> Switch -> Windows/Mac/Linux/NAS/Phone/TV
13 years of broadband - 1999 ntl:(512k/1M)/BTbusiness(2M)/Metronet(2M)/Bulldog(8M/16M)/BE(19M/16M)/BT FTTC(46M)
Standard User gazzyk1ns
(committed) Tue 02-Apr-13 22:19:58
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Computerman142:
Doesn't FTTC have a 10 day training period?, if so is it best to wait until after the 10 days before I fit the telephone cable?


Yes, or similar, but the crucial thing is that it will "train" it to the best that your alarm cable will do, i.e. it'll possibly mess you up permanently, even if you do install proper twisted copper after that period.

The BT guys here will be able to tell you exactly what cable to order if you're going to do it yourself.

Edited by gazzyk1ns (Tue 02-Apr-13 22:20:28)

Standard User R0NSKI
(experienced) Tue 02-Apr-13 22:48:28
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: gazzyk1ns] [link to this post]
 
And worse still, if the dodgy cable is causing errors, expect to see drops in your sync speed, and interleaving will kick in, in the next day or two.

The difference between 6W & 4W is the amount of pairs of wires I believe 6 way & 4 way I think.

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 02-Apr-13 23:24:13
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
You are best to use CAT5 cable, and make sure you use a true pair not any two wires.

The commonly used pair is Blue (possibly with white markings) with White+Blue markings.

If you do use phone cabling it needs to be CW1308 and twisted pairs, as the others have said. Cheap, flat, untwisted pair cable is not recommended.

The reason is that any wire can be subject to external interference. The two wires of a twisted pair get affected in opposite ways, so to some extent self-cancelling out the interference. If you use untwisted, or two random wires that aren't a matching pair, the interference is reinforced rather than largely cancelled.

Don't mess for the first 3 days. By then the things that actually control your line will have decided what to do, though you may get a few decreases in speed after that. You won't do any harm as long as you make sure you wire it up correctly, as above.

The 10-day period is/was basically to do with the BT Wholesale recording of the lowest sync speed on ADSLx in order to set fault reporting criteria. On FTTC all the BT Wholesale DLM seems to do is set the IP Profile. The line setup itself is by the Openreach DLM. The fault criteria are totally different - and pre-determined. As is what the OR DLM does about instable lines. It doesn't use the Noise Margin settings like the BT Wholesale ADSLx system. It uses speed bands to limit the maximum and minimum sync.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User Computerman142
(newbie) Wed 03-Apr-13 14:01:51
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
OK I will see how it goes for now as its been 1 day and 2 hours since the installation and my speeds are still 25Mbps but I will see how things go. If it slows down to much I will get some CAT5 or CAT5e to replace the alarm cable with.
Standard User worldofadsl
(knowledge is power) Wed 03-Apr-13 15:28:45
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
You should run a loose piece of cat5e cable and re-sync to see what speed you get.

Once the system sets you sync speed it is going to be a pain to get it reconfigured.

You want to get this sorted out ASAP. The first 10 days after you get it installed are crucial.

Edited by worldofadsl (Wed 03-Apr-13 15:30:24)

Standard User R0NSKI
(experienced) Wed 03-Apr-13 15:40:49
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: worldofadsl] [link to this post]
 
I think the general consensus is that if a fault is fixed the system will eventually increase the speed back up without a DLM reset.

Very few users get banded/stuck profiles, so it shouldn't have any long term affects once the alarm cable is changed.

Standard User Computerman142
(newbie) Wed 03-Apr-13 15:48:42
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
I think just as worldofadsl said I may try some loose cat5e to see if it makes a difference to the speed and if not I just guess that's what I get I suppose.
Standard User mabibby
(regular) Wed 03-Apr-13 17:53:04
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
I must admit i'm still bemused as to why you didn't just rip it out and wire it up properly before he came *shakes head*

PlusNet Unlimited
Standard User Computerman142
(newbie) Wed 03-Apr-13 18:26:07
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: mabibby] [link to this post]
 
I have decorated the room about a year ago. But finished up the areas where there wires are coming in to the house and where the alarm cable is about 5 months ago. So that why I didn't rip out the wiring as I didn't want to re decorate. But I will replace the cable in the future when I need to re do the area where the wires are as it located under a trim next to the back door and there are cracks starting to appear.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 03-Apr-13 18:42:17
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
Hint:

Wiring should really be done in ducting so that you can use the old wiring to pull through new wiring if you ever need to upgrade.

Probably too late in this case, but useful for others reading this.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 03-Apr-13 19:20:47
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: worldofadsl] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by worldofadsl:
You should run a loose piece of cat5e cable and re-sync to see what speed you get.

Once the system sets you sync speed it is going to be a pain to get it reconfigured.

You want to get this sorted out ASAP. The first 10 days after you get it installed are crucial.
FTTC only has a 10-day period in the minds of BT Wholesale. Their DLM does not affect the sync speed. Only the Openreach DLM does that, operating from the moment of connection.

I agree with you about trying a loose length of CAT5 before doing any major works smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User Computerman142
(newbie) Wed 03-Apr-13 21:18:14
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
OK thanks for the info on the DLM, I though it changed the sync speed just like ADSL if there were errors but I guess not. I will try some CAT5e at some point but probably not anytime in next couple of months.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 03-Apr-13 21:51:25
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
The Openreach DLM does alter speeds. But not by adjusting the noise margin. It uses "banding" giving a range of speeds to be used - that's if it decides not to let it just do its own thing, which most lines do.

The exception is Interleaving. That is the OR DLM's most common intervention, and it does it quite drastically. A typical speed drop is 10Mbps or so, with a latency increase of approximately 8ms. It can also revert back to Fast Path if it later decides the problem was temporary.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User Computerman142
(newbie) Wed 03-Apr-13 23:03:55
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
So does interleaving occur when there are errors on the line, I not quite sure what it means but I right in thinking it helps determine the best speed for your line along with the DLM or have I completely missed it?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 03-Apr-13 23:26:48
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
Interleaving is a way of correcting small data errors in the packets transmitted, it adds some latency

Generally not of concenrn unless you are a super twitchy gamer

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 03-Apr-13 23:55:51
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
I like this explanation of interleaving.

It doesn't have much effect on ADSLx connection speeds, but seems to have a dramatic effect on FTTC. This could well be that on ASLx you normally only see depths of under 100. (Depth is the number of packets "whole" ones are split across). On FTTC it seems to be several hundred or even into four figures.

My guess is that as the modem has to re-assemble stuff back to the original packets as it comes in, that's a lot of work for it to do on FTTC.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User Computerman142
(newbie) Thu 04-Apr-13 09:40:15
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Now I know what interleaving is, I wasn't quite sure, but thank you for yours and the people on this forums help on all of master socket moving and all the other things to do with fibre optic and telephone cable, etc.
Standard User Computerman142
(newbie) Mon 08-Apr-13 20:46:19
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
I think I have found out why me and my friend a couple of doors away is only getting 25 Mbps is because 0.6 miles equals 1000m. Which is how far the cabinet I am connected to is away from the house, that explains why I and my friend are getting 25 Mbps. Because according to thinkbroaband FTTC guide 1000m = 24 Mbps I am around that speed now, so If I did change the cable I Dont think it would make that much of a difference according to the information I found out about how far my cabinet is away and thinbroadband's guide.
Standard User Computerman142
(newbie) Thu 02-May-13 20:52:14
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
Hi again

As my fibre speed have now dropped to 10 - 12 Mbps ish, I think I need to replace the alarm wire. What cable do guys recommend for fibre from the line coming in from outside to the master socket? As well as the cable for my extension?

Thanks

Edited by Computerman142 (Thu 02-May-13 20:52:51)

Standard User Ribble
(committed) Thu 02-May-13 21:00:20
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
Either twisted pair phone cable to cw1308 sprcification or cat 5 network cable. Either can be purchased from some DIY stores or places like Screwfix/Toolstation
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 02-May-13 21:12:35
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Ribble] [link to this post]
 
http://www.tandyonline.co.uk/telephone-cable-cw1308-...

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 02-May-13 22:06:11
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
Note that some of the cheaper cables labelled CW1308 and Cat5 are not "twisted pair". Particularly suspect are flat ones for easy hiding under carpet or going under the corners of doors.

You must get twisted pair, and when using them you must use matched pairs.

For instance, with blue or blue/white you must use white/blue. With orange you must use orange/white. They are coloured this way to identify the wires that are twisted round each other, to help counteract any external electromagnetic interference.

You must not use blue with orange as they are not twisted round each other and the interference effect is magnified not reduced.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User Computerman142
(newbie) Fri 03-May-13 21:21:56
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thank you for you help on telephone cable I will look into twisted pair CW1308 cable like the one Mr Saffron linked me to.
Standard User Computerman142
(newbie) Sat 11-May-13 12:40:09
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
Hi

I guess its ok to use cat5e cable to back of my master socket where the line comes on terminal A and B, but I just wanted to make sure it will work with FTTC Fibre Optic? I have found this one which looks like it will be good as it is Belkin, the plan is I will cut the two plugs off the end and cut the wire to the required length. Also will the wires inside this Belkin cable be copper, not copper clad like I have had in the past? I hope they are as they are made by Belkin.

Thanks
Standard User R0NSKI
(experienced) Sat 11-May-13 14:19:27
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
You need solid core cables, or it will not make proper contact in the krone connectors.

If the cable has plugs on it, then it is highly likely to be multi-strand cables, so it's more flexible.

Standard User lewisskinner
(newbie) Wed 15-May-13 00:42:00
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: Computerman142] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Computerman142:
Doesn't FTTC have a 10 day training period?, if so is it best to wait until after the 10 days before I fit the telephone cable?


ADSL has a ten day training period. Ten days is normally quoted for FTTC, but in practice it's commonly more like three days

I am a Plusnet Employee, but my opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent the views of Plusnet Technologies or the wider BT Group plc.

Plusnet FTTC Ping
Virgin Media 100Mbps Ping
Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Wed 15-May-13 07:39:13
Print Post

Re: Will the engineer let me have fibre though I moved socke


[re: lewisskinner] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by lewisskinner:
ADSL has a ten day training period. Ten days is normally quoted for FTTC, but in practice it's commonly more like three days


"training period" ? is "A semi-myth. All this does is set one figure from which a second is calculated"

I think you should read this:
http://robertos.me.uk/html/10-day_training.html

James BT Infinity 2 19/09/2012 - Speeds 49 / 8.2 Mbps - Sync 53 / 9.5 Mbps @ 470m
Huawei modem -> RT-N66U -> Switch -> PC/Mac/Linux/NAS/Phone/TV - last speedtest
13 years of broadband - 1999 ntl:(512k/1M)/BTbusiness(2M)/Metronet(2M)/Bulldog(8M/16M)/BE(19M/16M)/BT FTTC(46M)
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to