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Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 17-Apr-13 21:44:18
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Re: Can FTTC handle speeds above 80 Mbps?


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by yarwell:
Do we have any co-located SLU ? Openreach evaded a Rutland cab deployment, I guess SYDR is the most likely. So was it "meaningful" in the first place.

They're the obvious cases here, but I haven't heard much contention here either - perhaps we're being more accepting of a virtual/wholesale undbundling setup instead.

There have been a few more complaints in Germany - but seemingly from the FTTP network owners.
Mind there's enough about cross-vendor or multi-DSLAM vectoring to suggest that it may not have the suggested consequence.

I saw some figures suggesting you need over 20 Gbps of data to make the right decisions in vectoring. That's a lot going across a backplane, never mind out of the cabinet and into another one from a different vendor.
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 17-Apr-13 21:52:10
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Re: Can FTTC handle speeds above 80 Mbps?


[re: shalom2005] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by shalom2005:
I've not read anywhere about what he said & if it was going to launch at the end of the summer I would have thought it would be heavily advertised.

When Openreach turned on the 17a profile, and the packages jumped from 40/10 to 80/20, there was little advertising until it actually happened.

Yes, we all knew it was coming - NICC had approved the frequencies, and Openreach had set notifications about the new packages.

However, consumer advertising was certainly totally absent.

Now, as far as vectoring has been concerned, BT have only mentioned it in their quarterly financial reports. We haven't yet heard anything concrete - so it was strange that the first mention I've seen was when I came across Mike Gavin's quote earlier today while reading about the Australian situation.
Standard User simon194
(committed) Thu 18-Apr-13 00:50:49
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Re: Can FTTC handle speeds above 80 Mbps?


[re: asbokid] [link to this post]
 
There's a series of blogs on ECI's web site to do with vectoring which make interesting reading. The one comparing linecard level and shelf level vectoring is quite interesting, Here.

The bottom line is don't bother with linecard level vectoring but I can't really see Openreach replacing all the M41's with V41's where ECI kit has been deployed somehow. smile


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Standard User shalom2005
(committed) Thu 18-Apr-13 07:17:37
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Re: Can FTTC handle speeds above 80 Mbps?


[re: simon194] [link to this post]
 
Many thanks for the answers. So, it may happen....look forward to hear more.

Best Regards

Steven, Chigwell, Essex
plusnet
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/13634...
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Thu 18-Apr-13 08:26:15
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Re: Can FTTC handle speeds above 80 Mbps?


[re: shalom2005] [link to this post]
 
from all documents I have read it looks a no brainer to me that the obvious speed gains (and stability) are from vectoring. Profile 30A will boost short lines (including mine as I see I am using the highest frequencies on 17a) but those same short lines will still probably see pretty good boosts from vectoring because of crosstalk and in addition vectoring also helps longer lines that wouldnt be helped by profile 30a. Also vectoring removes most of crosstalk variance so lines will be less like a lottery with performance.

If BT are planning to boost speeds further on copper the question is will they do it the absolute cheapest way profile 30a or even just a new 100mbit product on 17a with no vectoring. Or will they do whats most effective but with possibly more cost aka vectoring. I can see personally how bad crosstalk can be but I am also aware not all lines are affected as bad as mine, the average effect on short lines in vendor documents suggests around 40% speed loss due to crosstalk. To me that means if the cost of vectoring is under 40% of the cost of the original FTTC deployment, it makes it cost effective. I expect it will be way under 40% of the original cost as its just upgrading dslam equipment be it software or hardware upgrade.

ECI's shelf idea if I udnerstand it right is actually potentially cheaper than a per card solution if you consider a per card solution potentially needs every card upgrading whilst the shelf variant if I understand it right just needs a new master card to manage all the individual cards.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012

Edited by Chrysalis (Thu 18-Apr-13 08:29:02)

Standard User R0NSKI
(experienced) Thu 18-Apr-13 10:23:15
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Re: Can FTTC handle speeds above 80 Mbps?


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
But will it make any difference to lines like mine, I presume not. I was the first on the cabinet and initially got a 50 meg sync, but this quickly dropped to around 40 to 45 depending on interleaving depth.

I think my line is affected by bad line quality rather than cross talk.

Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 18-Apr-13 12:22:28
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Re: Can FTTC handle speeds above 80 Mbps?


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
If you are suffering from some alien noise, then no - it isn't going to solve that for you. You ought to get the 50 back, but not necessarily more.

However, it seems that the O&M bods have gotten their hands on vectoring too. The amount of data being generated for vectoring seems like it can be used as input into analysis tools to monitor the line quality. I've also read that it becomes possible for the cabinet to identify lines that are performing poorly without intervention of the end-user.

Some information here, from the broadband forum, plus both this article and this one from Alcatel.

It seems like BT would be able to respond better to people with poor lines - if they chose to improve their current attitude of "you get what you're given".
Standard User ryant704
(regular) Thu 18-Apr-13 12:30:06
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Re: Can FTTC handle speeds above 80 Mbps?


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
The 17a colud handle over 80Mbps but not my much... you would need to swap to 30a profile which is being trialed at the moment which is up to 200Mbps. Though if you're on the lower end of a line you are less likely to benefit from vectoring compared to someone who is 50m away. The trials have started for vectoring... very recently.
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 18-Apr-13 12:32:31
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Re: Can FTTC handle speeds above 80 Mbps?


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
While looking at the Broadband Forum's document An Overview of G993.5 Vectoring (May 2012), I saw a couple of interesting graphs (figures 7 and 8) - Vectoring on the 17a profile and on the 30a profile.

Those show that the effect of the 30a profile (with vectoring) runs out to 550 metres, just.

So 200Mbps out to 350 metres, on 0.4mm lines. Don't we have 0.5mm lines, which ought to be better?

I'd always thought of the 30a profile as being for lines that were too short to make it worthwhile in reality, save perhaps as FTTB for MDU. Perhaps it is worthwhile after all.
Standard User thompsbd
(regular) Thu 18-Apr-13 13:01:49
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Re: Can FTTC handle speeds above 80 Mbps?


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
Openreach vectoring trials start May 2013 for a period of between 3 and 6 months.
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