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Standard User Alexir
(learned) Thu 18-Apr-13 10:18:16
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DLM and the NTE Modem


[link to this post]
 
Forgive me if this is a dumb question but I've looked around for a basic guide to how DLM operates and can't find one so...

I understand that DLM reacts to errors and adjusts speed accordingly to gain a stable line but I'm trying to get a better understanding of how DLM gets the information (and where it sends it to make changes). Is it correct that it's just the modem itself that measures the errors and sends this info back up the line to some point (to the cabinet or the exchange or further)?

Also does anything downstream from the modem (ie the router, the ethernet cabling, the wifi, the connected PC) get measured? If so would that include the type of traffic passing through? For example if you're trying to download a huge file or some kind of P2P torrent and it's full of corruptions or errors and takes ages because it can't find the bits it wants, would that get picked up by DLM? Would unplugging the ethernet from the modem to the router and connecting a PC direct to the modem be seen as a disconnection? BTW I'm on TalkTalk if that makes any difference.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 18-Apr-13 10:43:35
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
The DLM is informed of sync events and information about these and other errors via the cabinet hardware, which in turn gets a chunk of the information from the modem in the home.

What you plug into the Openreach modem plays no part in the DLM determination.

When you say full of corruptions, a corrupt file that was corrupt before it got to the cabinet will not affect anything, only errors detected in the transmission ove rthe VDSL element count.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk

Edited by MrSaffron (Thu 18-Apr-13 11:10:29)

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Alexir
(learned) Thu 18-Apr-13 10:54:05
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
What you plug into the router plays no part in the DLM determination.


Does that mean the router itself can play a part, in which case the modem is detecting stuff downstream, ie from the ethernet out of the modem towards the home network?


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Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Thu 18-Apr-13 11:02:12
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alexir:
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
What you plug into the router plays no part in the DLM determination.


Does that mean the router itself can play a part, in which case the modem is detecting stuff downstream, ie from the ethernet out of the modem towards the home network?
No. Only the modem matters. It has nothing to do with anything that happens on your home network.

Having said that DLM is monitoring CRC errors so there might be a relationship between the number of CRC errors generated and the quantity of data being downloaded. I have my doubts though. I think the connection is always pinging back and forth anyway so even if there's no data coming down the connection is never 'silent'. I think the modem and DSLAM are continually chattering between each other even if it's just 'are you still there?' 'yes'. Could be wrong on that though plus some DSL variants can adjust power levels and tone usage to limit cross-talk when the connection is idle so that would impact the number of CRC errors.

But the simple answer is that errors within your network (ie;wifi dropped packets) are not reported to or seen by the DLM.

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he could. RIP.

Edited by Andrue (Thu 18-Apr-13 11:12:54)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 18-Apr-13 11:11:05
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
Sorry was a typo - corrected it to say Openreach modem

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Thu 18-Apr-13 11:20:21
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
To add some more:

It is only your modem (or the modem part of a hub) that matters in this case.

Within the information sent back to the DSLAM by the modem during speed negotiation is tone specific attenuation and SNR which allows the DSLAM and modem to "agree" the bit loading for each tone. The total bit loading will define the maximum capability of the line and hopefully the DLM monitors the total loading capability over shot/medium time and sets the speeds accordingly.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User Alexir
(learned) Thu 18-Apr-13 11:22:43
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Sorry was a typo - corrected it to say Openreach modem


Ah makes sense, nothing downstream from the modem has any effect on DLM, thanks. So even pulling the ethernet cable out of the modem makes no difference as long as the modem remains powered up.
Standard User StephenTodd
(committed) Thu 18-Apr-13 11:47:42
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
I agree with all that has been said above. One extra detail may be useful; where changes behind the modem do affect your speed, indirectly related to DLM.

All FTTC ISP's use the DLM described above; based on cabinet->modem stats, and ultimately setting cabinet->modem sync speed.

Several FTTC ISP's also have a higher level layer of BRAS/IP profile that limits the rate the exchange will send your data to the cabinet.
The IP Profile is set when the exchange->router PPPoE connection is established; unless your package says otherwise this is just a fraction below the sync speed to allow for overheads.
Often, when DLM forces a resync with new sync speed, the PPPoE connection is broken, and so the IP/BRAS profile is automatically set appropriately.

However, quite often, the low level resync is fast enough that the higher level connection does not notice and is not broken.
This can lead to a BRAS mismatch, where the sync speed and IP Profile do not match.
The speed you get will be based on the lower of the sync speed and profile.

If you think that your speed is too low and the DLM may be going to increase it, it is worth disconnecting and reconnecting the modem first thing each morning.
Best done by the web interface, but you can power cycle or reset the router.
Do it early morning as DLM usually schedules speed increases overnight.

--
Moved (with trepidation turned relief) to BT Infinity 2 for upload speed. Happy BE user for several years.
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 18-Apr-13 12:49:22
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Andrue:
I think the connection is always pinging back and forth anyway so even if there's no data coming down the connection is never 'silent'. I think the modem and DSLAM are continually chattering between each other even if it's just 'are you still there?' 'yes'.

Yes - there are still synchronisation bits that are transmitted as framing data, and that the modems watch out for. If those go missing, it causes a "loss of signal" event and a resync (under the assumption that the noise is now too high, and masking the signal).

The blocks of data transfer continuously, so CRC and FEC stats are updated even when no user data transfers.
Standard User Alexir
(learned) Thu 18-Apr-13 15:39:06
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Andrue:
Having said that DLM is monitoring CRC errors so there might be a relationship between the number of CRC errors generated and the quantity of data being downloaded


Eh? So there is possibly a connection between high data volumes, errors and DLM? The reason it came to mind is that for a year I've had a pretty stable 38meg download, then about a month ago it started dropping off to 32 meg and then to 24meg with a 0.67 upload. These were firm ceilings so I guessed were set by DLM but I didn't know why. Around the same time my new flatmate had arrived and (I just found out) has be running P2P 24x7, downloading up to 20gig per day. Could this be connected to DLM setting caps or am I barking (up the wrong tree)?
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 18-Apr-13 16:27:09
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alexir:
Around the same time my new flatmate had arrived and (I just found out) has be running P2P 24x7, downloading up to 20gig per day. Could this be connected to DLM setting caps or am I barking (up the wrong tree)?


It certainly *shouldn't* make any difference - the bit errors ought to be happening and be being caught by CRC checks irrespective of whether the end-user is actually transferring data.

There is one way to check though. Turn it off. Possibly for up to a month....
Standard User StephenTodd
(committed) Thu 18-Apr-13 16:32:27
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
the bit errors ought to be happening and be being caught by CRC checks irrespective of whether the end-user is actually transferring data.
Are the cabinet and modem essentially in a continuous chat even if no user data is being transferred?

--
Moved (with trepidation turned relief) to BT Infinity 2 for upload speed. Happy BE user for several years.
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 18-Apr-13 16:45:18
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: StephenTodd] [link to this post]
 
Yes.

The datastream is broken down into frames, with framing and control data forming the structure. The modems are constantly monitoring that data to ensure that it can hear the other side - which can lead to the "loss of signal" event and a resync.

The same control bits are used for the modem to report back to the DSLAM any errors that it is seeing.

They're all constantly going back-and-forth.

The gaps between the framing/control data is where the end-user data goes. If there isn't anything to send, it is just empty rather than non-existent. I don't have my VDSL2 spec to say what empty actually is though.
Standard User ryant704
(regular) Thu 18-Apr-13 18:04:16
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
Yes, as wombat said loss of signal this will be formed under errors as UAS/SES I believe...
Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Thu 18-Apr-13 18:15:57
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
The gaps between the framing/control data is where the end-user data goes. If there isn't anything to send, it is just empty rather than non-existent. I don't have my VDSL2 spec to say what empty actually is though.
Thanks for that. I thought it was something like that but wasn't sure. I suppose my comments about the modem cycling back on power and tones in use could still change the error rate though. Does VDSL2 do any of that?

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he could. RIP.
Standard User Alexir
(learned) Fri 19-Apr-13 14:52:30
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
In reply to a post by Alexir:
Around the same time my new flatmate had arrived and (I just found out) has be running P2P 24x7, downloading up to 20gig per day. Could this be connected to DLM setting caps or am I barking (up the wrong tree)?


It certainly *shouldn't* make any difference - the bit errors ought to be happening and be being caught by CRC checks irrespective of whether the end-user is actually transferring data.

There is one way to check though. Turn it off. Possibly for up to a month....


I did turn it off (that's to say stopped the massive P2P downloading) on 12 April. Now I know causation and correlation are not the same thing, but after a month of falling speeds the DLM cap removed itself today and I'm back to a full 38meg
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 19-Apr-13 18:12:10
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
I think it is possible that TalkTalk were doing the slowing down, not the Openreach DLM.

Which Openreach modem have you got? An HG612 or and ECI? It is possible with the HG612 to unlock it very easily, and then you can monitor the error rates to see if they change under heavy use. (This can be done with the ECI one as well but it'sa lot more difficult to unlock).

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 19-Apr-13 18:39:07
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alexir:
I did turn it off (that's to say stopped the massive P2P downloading) on 12 April. Now I know causation and correlation are not the same thing, but after a month of falling speeds the DLM cap removed itself today and I'm back to a full 38meg


I might have to rethink things - when I get back to where my VDSL2 spec is, and have time to peruse.

You have one suggestion from RobertoS to continue monitoring. An extra one would be to use a TBB ping meter, and see if it shows any packet loss - and if that changes when heavy downloading is going on.
Standard User Alexir
(learned) Fri 19-Apr-13 22:16:57
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I think it is possible that TalkTalk were doing the slowing down, not the Openreach DLM


I did consider that because TT openly admit they slow down P2P traffic, but they say they only do so at certain peak hours times and only when the P2P traffic is passing - and my slow down was constant with a firm ceiling of 24meg which felt like a DLM cap.

The P2P traffic was probably just a coincidence but as my speed came back I thought I'd mention it just in case someone else experiences similar in future.
Standard User Alexir
(regular) Sun 02-Jun-13 08:12:02
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
I might have to rethink things - when I get back to where my VDSL2 spec is, and have time to peruse.


After six weeks of stable 38meg we decided to test again with another torrent and downloaded around 30gig over a couple of days, leaving it running overnight but stopping during the day. Almost immediately our speed has been reduced to 23.6meg. Basically this looks like a 24meg ceiling has been set by DLM and my guess is I will have to wait again for a few weeks before it resets back to 38meg.

So, any idea what's going on? Is the torrent download causing the speed reduction, the two events always seem to correlate even though the theory says they shouldn't. Is the 24meg ceiling set by BT DLM - TalkTalk tell me it is nothing they are doing, though their CS staff will only be following a script. TT used to traffic manage P2P but even that stopped last month to become 'totally unlimited' even for Essentials, the package I'm on.
Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Sun 02-Jun-13 08:32:32
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alexir:
After six weeks of stable 38meg we decided to test again with another torrent and downloaded around 30gig over a couple of days, leaving it running overnight but stopping during the day. Almost immediately our speed has been reduced to 23.6meg.
Is that a sync speed drop? It's interesting if it is. Perhaps I was correct - maybe an idle connection is really idle (or less active) at the DSL layer. That being the case there might be scope for fewer CRCs. A bit like an engine with a knackered fuel filter might tick over just fine but lacks power when you accelerate hard.

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 02-Jun-13 10:36:02
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
You definitely want to find out the sync speed - which you can do without unlocking the modem. Runa BT Wholesale speedtest, then click on "Further Diagnostics". The IP Profile there will be roughly 3% lower than the sync speed (on downlink).

If you can unlock the modem, then we can get the FEC and interleaving data, to see what is happening there too. We'll also be able to see the number of errors and (with multiple well-timed readings) be able to see the rate of errors.

Another good tool to visualise what is happening is with the TBB BQM (ping monitor) that runs 24/7, and gives you a good idea of latency and packet loss. It works well with a static IP.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Sun 02-Jun-13 10:53:32
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
Almost immediately our speed has been reduced to 23.6meg


what do you mean by "speed" in this context

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User Alexir
(regular) Sun 02-Jun-13 11:51:20
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by yarwell:
what do you mean by "speed" in this context


I mean as tested using any of the usual speed test tools eg http://speedtest.btwholesale.com/ which is now giving 23.77 (ie there seems to be a 24meg ceiling) whereas normally it would be giving 37ish.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:
Runa BT Wholesale speedtest, then click on "Further Diagnostics". The IP Profile there will be roughly 3% lower than the sync speed (on downlink).


Not sure if that only works on BT lines but it doesn't work for TalkTalk. I can run the speedtest but Further Diagnostics always produces an error (and always has, I've tried if before). TT fibre also uses dynamic IPs not static
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 02-Jun-13 12:39:38
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alexir:
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
Runa BT Wholesale speedtest, then click on "Further Diagnostics". The IP Profile there will be roughly 3% lower than the sync speed (on downlink).


Not sure if that only works on BT lines but it doesn't work for TalkTalk. I can run the speedtest but Further Diagnostics always produces an error (and always has, I've tried if before). TT fibre also uses dynamic IPs not static
As you say, only BT Wholesale based services have the IP Profile. TalkTalk doesn't. Also although the initial test runs, with being on LLU phone that is why you can't get to the Further Diagnostics, as your phone number isn't recognised. I don't know if the Service ID(?) would work, but I doubt if TT Support would know what that was.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 53.4/16.8Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 02-Jun-13 12:59:09
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
Without unlocking the modem (or buying one on ebay), the only tool left at your disposal is some kind of ping monitor.

TBB BQM isn't much use if your dynamic IP changes, but you could try f8lure, if you can set up a DDNS agent on either the router or PC.
Standard User asbokid
(member) Sun 02-Jun-13 13:59:10
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alexir:
for a year I've had a pretty stable 38meg download, then about a month ago it started dropping off to 32 meg and then to 24meg with a 0.67 upload. These were firm ceilings so I guessed were set by DLM but I didn't know why. Around the same time my new flatmate had arrived and (I just found out) has be running P2P 24x7, downloading up to 20gig per day. Could this be connected to DLM setting caps or am I barking (up the wrong tree)?


It's just a coincidence that your sync speed dropped at the same time as you started generating heavy P2P traffic. The DLM algorithm is under the control of BT Openreach and doesn't monitor the traffic type of the end-user. The end-user could be a subscriber of any of the Comms Providers, and his application layer type (torrent, etc.) is not Openreach's concern.

Even when there is no meaningful traffic, there are still idle packets or frames being sent, containing dumb data. These are still checksummed in the normal way. So when they are in error they also add to the error counters, just like any other frame or packet with a proper payload.

cheers, a
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Sun 02-Jun-13 15:36:36
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: asbokid] [link to this post]
 
selected wrong user to reply to

Edited by tommy45 (Sun 02-Jun-13 15:40:38)

Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Sun 02-Jun-13 15:40:54
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
Or maybe the modem is getting swamped by the number of connections ,and this is causing it to reboot ? But a single reboot or re sync should not cause DLM to intervene,

Also i find it strange that the throughput gets reduced by around 75% each time, I think it's down to talk talk , or the router /modem Although i would be surprised if the latter would keep the throughput low for weeks before returning to full steam ahead ,

Throttling (unofficially ) more likely , You could try torrenting using a secure VPN and see if the same problem occurs, if it doesn't then it firmly would point at talk talk , be they covertly throttling p2p , or be it some mis configuration their end , and ringing their useless script reading support won't get you any firm answers, better to try their members forums for help
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 02-Jun-13 18:01:22
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
The modem only has one connection. To the DSLAM. At the sync speed.

Or two if you include the Ethernet link to the user's router.

It hasn't any idea what is going through it.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 53.4/16.8Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User izools
(experienced) Mon 03-Jun-13 10:46:17
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alexir:
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
I might have to rethink things - when I get back to where my VDSL2 spec is, and have time to peruse.


After six weeks of stable 38meg we decided to test again with another torrent and downloaded around 30gig over a couple of days, leaving it running overnight but stopping during the day. Almost immediately our speed has been reduced to 23.6meg. Basically this looks like a 24meg ceiling has been set by DLM and my guess is I will have to wait again for a few weeks before it resets back to 38meg.

So, any idea what's going on? Is the torrent download causing the speed reduction, the two events always seem to correlate even though the theory says they shouldn't. Is the 24meg ceiling set by BT DLM - TalkTalk tell me it is nothing they are doing, though their CS staff will only be following a script. TT used to traffic manage P2P but even that stopped last month to become 'totally unlimited' even for Essentials, the package I'm on.


I would still put this down to TalkTalk

When I was on BT Infinity Option 2 I absolutely pummeled the connection, to the tune of upto 500GB a month and my HTTP throughput never faltered. Sat steady at 76Mbit/sec throughout.

P2P throughput was sometimes limited but the speedtest results never showed this as they used HTTP traffic to benchmark the connection.

_____________________________________________
Connection Speed 3043 kbps 440 kbps
Line Attenuation 61.5 db 37.1 db
Noise Margin 6.1 db 13.7 db
PlusNET - Excellent support!
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 03-Jun-13 11:28:20
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: asbokid] [link to this post]
 
Like asbo, I'm still very much of the opinion that actually sending user data should NOT make any different to the errors stats seen on the line, so the volume of data should make no difference whatsoever.

But the observed behaviour is indeed strange.

I don't think we'll ever get to the bottom of the behaviour until there is more evidence related specifically to the DSL portion of the link. That means an unlocked modem, and capturing the statistics over time. Nothing else will do the job.

A BQM (or f8lure) would help see where changes happened, and how they related to the volume of data being sent - so would help give an indirect visual indication - but won't help identify any further.

Everything else is going to be speculation. Puzzled, frowning speculation indeed, but still just speculation.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Mon 03-Jun-13 16:15:37
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
the question is does a modem in bridge mode have higher cpu load dealing with say 500 p2p connections than a single http connection even if both same throughput?

we know routers do but does a modem in bridge mode.

if yes then its possible that the extra stress on the device can affect dsl performance, such as bitswapping, error correction and uptime.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012
Standard User asbokid
(member) Mon 03-Jun-13 16:33:45
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Exactly the same load in (ethernet) bridge mode, whether there's just one p2p connection at layer 3, or 500 of them. Every second, the bridge will forward the same count of ethernet frames (and frames of the same size), whether or not those frames have an empty payload.

cheers, a
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 03-Jun-13 17:46:40
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
the question is does a modem in bridge mode have higher cpu load dealing with say 500 p2p connections than a single http connection even if both same throughput?
I think we need to be a little careful with terminology here.

A modem in bridge mode? Err - what?

Presumably you mean the Openreach modem/routers which are indeed supplied in bridge mode. As such, the router component is doing a straight pass-through to the user's router.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 53.4/16.8Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Mon 03-Jun-13 18:41:01
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: asbokid] [link to this post]
 
ok thanks.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Mon 03-Jun-13 18:42:19
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
The modems supplied by openreach are actually routers, but configured in bridge mode.

I refer as a modem as thats what 99% of people refer to them as, so simply to avoid confusion.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 03-Jun-13 20:26:24
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Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
The modems supplied by openreach are actually routers, but configured in bridge mode.
Isn't that what I said? No they are not. They are modem/routers, or alternatively VDSL2 routers.

I refer as a modem as thats what 99% of people refer to them as, so simply to avoid confusion.
I fail to see how using incorrect terminology when discussing a reasonably complex technical issue is going to do anything but increase the chances of confusion.

Hence the explanation by myself and asbokid that a modem doesn't know about P2P streams.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 53.4/16.8Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User Alexir
(regular) Tue 04-Jun-13 06:08:23
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
As of last night, a week after the torrent download, speed has recovered from 24meg to around 33meg. This matches previous patterns when it moved up in steps to my normal 37ish. Does DLM have a series of set threshold ceilings?

Thanks all for your input on this, I realise it would be better if I had proper stats from the modem, if it's not too difficult I'll have a go at unlocking it

Edited by Alexir (Tue 04-Jun-13 06:14:21)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 04-Jun-13 09:14:29
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
Unlocking the HG612 is easy. Unlocking the ECI is not for the faint-hearted - best to get an HG612 off eBay and unlock that instead.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 53.4/16.8Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 04-Jun-13 10:19:43
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
DLM has different levels of FEC that it can request, which alters the amount of overhead used by the error-correction process, and therefore affects the remaining speed available to the end-user. It can roughly eat between 10 and 30% of your bandwidth.

DLM also has banding levels that can set absolute maximum speeds - but we don't often see these. The bands are probably further apart than you are seeing, and almost certainly don't change very often.

If DLM is causing this, then it is probably the former.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Tue 04-Jun-13 18:00:50
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
you are the only one claiming to be confused by what I said.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 04-Jun-13 23:29:01
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Errr wrong again. (That's three so far).

Asbokid (politely) explained you were talking nonsense and everyone else has ignored your "The question is ...."

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 53.4/16.8Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Tue 04-Jun-13 23:45:24
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
no he just said there is no extra load on the device, he didnt moan about me calling it a modem.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012
Standard User Alexir
(regular) Thu 13-Jun-13 15:30:22
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
If you can unlock the modem, then we can get the FEC and interleaving data, to see what is happening there too. We'll also be able to see the number of errors and (with multiple well-timed readings) be able to see the rate of errors.


Taken a while but have today unlocked the hg612 Should I be able to see more stats than these within admin http://goo.gl/hcxy3 or do I need to delve deeper
Standard User ryant704
(member) Thu 13-Jun-13 15:37:12
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
The errors reported in the Web GUI are wrong, you should try Bald_eagles scripts or DSLStats.

I would provide links but I don't have one for balds but here is DSLStats.

http://www.s446074245.websitehome.co.uk/
Standard User Alexir
(regular) Thu 13-Jun-13 15:56:07
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: ryant704] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ryant704:
I would provide links but I don't have one for balds


Is this it http://www.freewarefiles.com/HG612-Modem-Stats_progr... ?

Forgive the stupid question, do I need to put this on a PC and keep the computer running 24/7 to collect stats? With LAN2 from the modem connected to the router?
Standard User ryant704
(member) Thu 13-Jun-13 16:13:00
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alexir:
Is this it http://www.freewarefiles.com/HG612-Modem-Stats_progr... ?

Forgive the stupid question, do I need to put this on a PC and keep the computer running 24/7 to collect stats? With LAN2 from the modem connected to the router?


It certainly looks like it, though whether it has been *edited* is another question.

Yes you do, but you will be able to recover the total FEC at any given time.
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 13-Jun-13 18:39:55
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
If you can use telnet (or PuTTY in telnet mode) manually, then that will be enough to get a "feel".

I don't run the program 24/7. Instead, I just get it to gather a snapshot every now and again. That is done by manually running one of the batch files in BaldEagles package.

However, to track behaviour when you are performing P2P, you will want to the 24/7 monitoring running. Just to check...

BTW - you have a strange sync speed (35/2) given that the attainable is 84/25 - which could suggest some form of banding. Are you suffering after-effects from the last P2P still?

Edited by WWWombat (Thu 13-Jun-13 18:42:59)

Standard User Alexir
(regular) Thu 13-Jun-13 20:01:07
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
Are you suffering after-effects from the last P2P still?


Yes speedtests still show a ceiling of 24meg compared to around 38meg normally (not saying it's caused by P2P but it seems to correlate). Last time it took about six weeks I think before speed returned to normal.

How can I find out about telnet, is it complicated for an idiot? I've downloaded BE's package but not sure where to start with it
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Thu 13-Jun-13 20:07:32
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
Ryan's suggestion is easier
I would provide links but I don't have one for balds but here is DSLStats.

http://www.s446074245.websitehome.co.uk/



__________________________________________________________________________The back pedalling starts here__________________
Standard User Alexir
(regular) Fri 14-Jun-13 11:22:00
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Used the DSLStats tool seemed easier - one thing though, I can get stats with laptop connected direct to LAN2 but if I connect LAN2 to one of the four router (belkin F6D6230) LAN ports then I can no longer 'see' the modem? This means I can't easily monitor 24/7 I can only get snapshots by taking the laptop to the modem for a brief direct connection.

Speedtest.net shows I've recovered from the 24meg ceiling to 33meg which is the same pattern last time I did P2P so would be back to 38meg within a week or so. Anyways here are my stats, are they er good/bad/normal?. I guess what I really need to do is wait till I'm back to full speed then run DSLStats whilst actually P2Ping?

xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 25199 Kbps, Downstream rate = 84008 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 1999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 34995 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 27.7 30.1
Attn(dB): 0.0 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 13.0 -0.7
VDSL2 framing
Path 0
B: 237 31
M: 1 2
T: 64 36
R: 16 16
S: 0.2164 0.9922
L: 9392 645
D: 1 1
I: 254 80
N: 254 80
Counters
Path 0
OHF: 21143294 475439
OHFErr: 51 0
RS: 1353152423 4128615
RSCorr: 13429 3
RSUnCorr: 174 0

Path 0
HEC: 135 0
OCD: 10 0
LCD: 10 0
Total Cells: 649328665 0
Data Cells: 101452924 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 29 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 70 70
AS: 73478

Path 0
INP: 0.00 0.00
PER: 3.46 13.39
delay: 0.00 0.00
OR: 69.33 57.33

Bitswap: 3 590

Total time = 20 hours 26 min 47 sec
FEC: 13429 0
CRC: 51 0
ES: 29 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 70 70
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 11 min 47 sec
FEC: 3 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 5 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 20 hours 26 min 47 sec
FEC: 13429 0
CRC: 51 0
ES: 29 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 70 70
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Since Link time = 20 hours 24 min 37 sec
FEC: 13429 3
CRC: 51 0
ES: 29 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
#
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Fri 14-Jun-13 12:36:21
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
What's the ip address of your LAN and the ip address of LAN2? There may be a conflict.

Looks like you are on a "40 down / 2 up" package.


__________________________________________________________________________The back pedalling starts here__________________
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 14-Jun-13 13:26:22
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
If he is on a 40 meg package wouldn't his sync be 40 given his attainable, even with interleaving?

Edited by R0NSKI (Fri 14-Jun-13 13:29:02)

Standard User ryant704
(member) Fri 14-Jun-13 13:30:38
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
Correct ronski, seems to be some banding going on.

What IP do you use to access the belkin?

2 US and 35 DS, are you on a 40/2 package? (doubtful)

Edited by ryant704 (Fri 14-Jun-13 13:32:52)

Standard User huwwatkins
(committed) Fri 14-Jun-13 14:29:44
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: ryant704] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ryant704:
Correct ronski, seems to be some banding going on.

What IP do you use to access the belkin?

2 US and 35 DS, are you on a 40/2 package? (doubtful)


The lower Talktalk Fibre package is 40/2.
Standard User Alexir
(regular) Fri 14-Jun-13 15:16:49
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: huwwatkins] [link to this post]
 
Yes I'm on TT 40/2 package. As I say I normally get 38meg (as measured by any of the usual speedtesters), following the P2P session it fell to 24meg, but it's back up to 33meg now - which would fit with a 34995 banding (set by DLM?)

I access the belkin via http://192.168.2.1/
the modem via http://192.168.1.1/

The bottom right corner of the DSLStats interface says Interleave:OFF, though the stats page says Interleave depth: 1
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 14-Jun-13 15:50:43
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alexir:
I access the belkin via http://192.168.2.1/
the modem via http://192.168.1.1/

The bottom right corner of the DSLStats interface says Interleave:OFF, though the stats page says Interleave depth: 1


The modem and router are on different sub nets, the first three numbers need to be the same, the fourth needs to be unique. Login in to the modem and change the IP to 192.168.2.254, hopefully that IP is not in use, you could also stop it being issued by changing the ip range in the router so it only uses up to 253.

When you've changed the IP you can plug it back into the router.

Edit: Interleaving depth of 1 is off

Max: Upstream rate = 25199 Kbps, Downstream rate = 84008 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 1999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 34995 Kbps


You have an attainable speed of 84 meg, this is what the modem thinks your line is capable of, so your sync speed (path above) should be 39999 kbps, it looks like your line has been banded for whatever reason.

It would be good if you could have Bald Eagles script running 24/7 for a while, it is really easy to setup if running windows - let me know if you need any help - I wrote the editor part which sets up all the options easily.

Edited by R0NSKI (Fri 14-Jun-13 21:13:58)

Standard User ian72
(knowledge is power) Fri 14-Jun-13 16:03:34
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
You shouldn't use 255 as an IP. The last address of a subnet is reserved as the broadcast address.
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 14-Jun-13 18:29:08
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
I've edited my post to save any confusion/problems.

Now you mention it when I tried to use 255 in the past my router wouldn't let me, so that explains it, thanks.

Standard User Alexir
(regular) Sat 15-Jun-13 07:49:15
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by R0NSKI:
Login in to the modem and change the IP to 192.168.2.254


Do I make this change via Basic>LAN? As you can see from screenshot I started doing that but it didn't like it and highlighted the Start IP address within DHCP (even though DHCP is disabled)

http://goo.gl/GNboR

BTW overnight my max downstream has dropped to 65656 which seems very low as the cabinet is about 100m away?

xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 25712 Kbps, Downstream rate = 65656 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 1999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 34995 Kbps
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 15-Jun-13 09:23:02
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
It's highly unlikely that IP address is in use, but before you make these changes it would be a good idea to check anyway, you need to login to your modem to do that. You should be able to find something similar to the DHCP section you see in the modem in your router settings. The range should go from 192.168.2.2 to 192.168.2.253 THIS IS IN YOUR ROUTER (Belkin)

In your screen shot change the top IP address (make sure it is correct), and then click the top Submit button. After clicking submit you will lose access to the modem, just connect it to your router, connect your PC to your network and you then should be able to access it via the new IP address from any PC on the network.

Leave DHCP in the modem as it is, you don't want the modem giving out IP addresses, the router will be doing that.

During in these troubles you really need to be logging stats 24/7

Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sat 15-Jun-13 09:56:12
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
I see the DHCP server on the modem is not enabled anyway, as you don't want it to be - you already have one on the Belkin and you don't want 2 on the same LAN.

So the entry for Start IP address and End IP address just have to have the same first 3 octets as the modem's IP address 192.168.2.1 and 192.168.2.254 as they won't be used anyway.


__________________________________________________________________________The back pedalling starts here__________________
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 17-Jun-13 21:48:05
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
A couple of interesting things about the FEC and interleaving settings...

In reply to a post by Alexir:
INP:		0.00		0.00
delay:		0.00		0.00

These values indicate that DLM has specified that neither interleaving nor FEC are required, and that no additional delay can be allowed.

However, these figures...
In reply to a post by Alexir:
R:		16		16
D:		1		1
I:		254		80
N:		254		80


... show that FEC has been turned on, even though interleaving has not.

Downstream is currently using 16/254 bytes for FEC protection, or about 6%. Upstream is 16/80 bytes, or about 20%.

The modems should be safe to have chosen this FEC protection because they have so much leeway in SNRM that they can afford to do it.

While I note that they have done this, I don't think the reduction in sync speed (from 40Mbps to 35Mbps, or a 12.5% reduction) is a consequence. It looks more like banding.
Standard User Alexir
(regular) Tue 18-Jun-13 08:35:48
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
It looks more like banding.


When you say banding is that a series of set levels that DLM can choose?
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 18-Jun-13 10:24:08
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
As we understand it, yes. But there are insufficient cases for us to have a definitive list of the various levels.

We do know that a band has an upper level that it won't sync above, and a lower level where it won't sync below. The lower level is usually half of the upper.

However, when banding is applied, you'd expect the sync speed to tend to end up at the upper level, and for it to be some "nice" number - a round figure near a power of 10, or a power of 2. Unless you can see evidence that the sync happened under more trying circumstances.
Standard User zom22
(learned) Tue 18-Jun-13 10:33:10
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
FTTC Banding levels as pinched from a plusnet staff reply to a question and reposted on the Kitz forum.......

FTTC bands
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Tue 18-Jun-13 11:54:00
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: zom22] [link to this post]
 
You mean this? http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php?action=dla...


__________________________________________________________________________The back pedalling starts here__________________
Standard User Alexir
(regular) Thu 20-Jun-13 11:11:01
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
Current plans to monitor the connection hoping for a recovery to full speed not going well due to someone in the house doing a massive P2P again. Anyway here's another snapshot http://goo.gl/lhhvV system uptime is 6 days 20 hours which I think is when I flashed the new firmware, what does DSL uptime 22 hours mean? The modem wasn't switched off as I guess that wouldn't allow a system uptime of 6 days, so the signal was interrupted yesterday? Also now on Interleave 1123
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 20-Jun-13 11:19:25
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
DSL uptime is the time since the last resync, while system uptime is the time since the modem rebooted.

I can see that there was a change to the FEC settings (because R is now 10), but can't work out the rest as they fall into the next screenful. It'd be good to see all 6 parameters I mention in a previous post.

As some P2P has been running, it'd be good to see the set of FEC/CRC/ES values too.
Standard User Alexir
(regular) Thu 20-Jun-13 12:11:36
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 2
Max: Upstream rate = 25831 Kbps, Downstream rate = 88608 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 1999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 34999 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 19.4 30.3
Attn(dB): 0.0 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.9 -0.1
VDSL2 framing
Path 0
B: 31 31
M: 1 2
T: 64 36
R: 10 16
S: 0.0291 0.9922
L: 11557 645
D: 1123 1
I: 42 80
N: 42 80
Counters
Path 0
OHF: 30938580 209277
OHFErr: 183 0
RS: 3290344485 1552035
RSCorr: 119634 1
RSUnCorr: 21072 0

Path 0
HEC: 3556 0
OCD: 156 0
LCD: 156 0
Total Cells: 1534629017 0
Data Cells: 115749297 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 2397 7
SES: 173 0
UAS: 190 190
AS: 86690

Path 0
INP: 3.50 0.00
PER: 2.79 13.39
delay: 8.00 0.00
OR: 85.98 57.33

Bitswap: 27 1767

Total time = 1 days 22 hours 13 sec
FEC: 2407547 20
CRC: 22759 7
ES: 2397 7
SES: 173 0
UAS: 190 190
LOS: 37 0
LOF: 33 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 13 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 22 hours 13 sec
FEC: 119051 1
CRC: 183 0
ES: 15 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 2273242 4
CRC: 22576 1
ES: 95 1
SES: 63 0
UAS: 41 41
LOS: 12 0
LOF: 11 0
Since Link time = 1 days 4 min 49 sec
FEC: 119634 1
CRC: 183 0
ES: 15 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
#
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 20-Jun-13 13:16:10
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
I need to spend more time going through the numbers, but for now... Wow - what a difference to the previous stats! shocked

Are you graphing the errors (the CRC preferably, but FEC would be good too)?

It'd be worth doing that for the next burst of P2P work...
Standard User Alexir
(regular) Thu 04-Jul-13 13:20:44
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
Speed returned to normal now, no idea if it was due to the heavy P2P or not. System uptime at 20 days shows the modem has been on constantly since I flashed the hack but DSL uptime is only 1 day again, so why would I be getting disconnected every so often?

DSLAM/MSAN type: BDCM:0xa39d / v0xa39d
DSL mode: VDSL2
Status: Showtime
Uptime: 1 day 7 hours 20 min 9 sec

Downstream Upstream
Attenuation (dB): 0.0 0.0
Connection speed (kbps): 39998 1999
SNR margin (dB): 17.7 29.8
Power (dBm): 13.0 0.6
Interleave depth: 1 1

RSCorr/RS (%): 0.0000 0.0001
RSUnCorr/RS (%): 0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour: 0 0
INP: 0 0


xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 2
Max: Upstream rate = 24069 Kbps, Downstream rate = 81372 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 1999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 39998 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 17.7 29.8
Attn(dB): 0.0 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 13.0 -0.6
VDSL2 framing
Path 0
B: 237 31
M: 1 2
T: 64 36
R: 16 16
S: 0.1893 0.9922
L: 10736 645
D: 1 1
I: 254 80
N: 254 80
Counters
Path 0
OHF: 37145263 915615
OHFErr: 41 2
RS: 2377275845 4239307
RSCorr: 227 3
RSUnCorr: 200 0

Path 0
HEC: 221 0
OCD: 14 0
LCD: 14 0
Total Cells: 95666833 0
Data Cells: 35632600 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 2585 15
SES: 226 0
UAS: 249 249
AS: 112929

Path 0
INP: 0.00 0.00
PER: 3.02 13.39
delay: 0.00 0.00
OR: 84.53 57.33

Bitswap: 21 192

Total time = 1 days 23 hours 4 min 48 sec
FEC: 233620 0
CRC: 37647 0
ES: 2585 15
SES: 226 0
UAS: 249 249
LOS: 52 0
LOF: 48 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 4 min 48 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 10 0
CRC: 1 0
ES: 1 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 23 hours 4 min 48 sec
FEC: 162 0
CRC: 33 0
ES: 27 2
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 65 0
CRC: 8 0
ES: 14 0
SES: 6 0
UAS: 20 20
LOS: 5 0
LOF: 5 0
Since Link time = 1 days 7 hours 22 min 7 sec
FEC: 227 3
CRC: 41 2
ES: 35 2
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
#
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Thu 04-Jul-13 13:30:55
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alexir:
but DSL uptime is only 1 day again, so why would I be getting disconnected every so often?


Something keeps happening:

Total time = 1 days 23 hours 4 min 48 sec
FEC: 233620 0
CRC: 37647 0
ES: 2585 15
SES: 226 0
UAS: 249 249
LOS: 52 0
LOF: 48 0


Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 65 0
CRC: 8 0
ES: 14 0
SES: 6 0
UAS: 20 20
LOS: 5 0
LOF: 5 0



__________________________________________________________________________The back pedalling starts here__________________
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 04-Jul-13 13:49:34
Print Post

Re: DLM and the NTE Modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
These two statements...
In reply to a post by Alexir:
Speed returned to normal now
<snip>
DSL uptime is only 1 day again

are connected...

If DLM intervened to change settings - to set them higher or lower, or to remove them at all - then the modems will need to resync, and the "link time" will start again. And the speed you experience will change.

If you can count back "1 day 7 hours" from when you took the stats, and find that it is in the middle of the night (perhaps between 2am and 7am), then this re-enforces the likelihood.

Anyway, now it is all working, you need to monitor the error rates, to see what they look like without P2P running.

You can do this manually, by grabbing the output from "--stats" every 24 hours would be good, to see the changes in the "latest 1 day" and "previous 1 day" entries.

BaldEagle's stats package could be used instead, to grab the information every minute. That way you get the figures graphed.

After getting some averages from that for a few days, it'll be time to fire up the P2P for a while, and start grabbing stats every 15 minutes, or watching the graphs.
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