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Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sat 20-Apr-13 16:59:04
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Re: FTTV - Fibre To The Village (really FTTdp)


[re: gah789] [link to this post]
 
are EO lines in that 10% as well?

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012
Standard User somerset
(committed) Sat 20-Apr-13 17:11:19
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Re: FTTV - Fibre To The Village (really FTTdp)


[re: gah789] [link to this post]
 
What do you mean by 'fibre capacity' at an exchange and how would that benefit the end users?
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 20-Apr-13 20:53:51
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Re: FTTV - Fibre To The Village (really FTTdp)


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
maybe, maybe not, but of course the last 10% isnt just vaillages, the first 30% of BTs FTTC rollout was mainly rural areas.


When people refer to the "last 10%" in this context, they usually mean the "least likely 10% to be included". It also means they're going to be the last ones physically worked on... because they won't get worked on.

But the reverse isn't true.

In a large rollout, the first 30% of the rollout in time that BT happen to actually work on, don't have to be the first 30% in terms of likelihood of service, or profitability, or priority. They probably happened to be the easiest to run the project on - either because of the ease of civils, the space in the exchange, or the ease of using the manpower.

However, the "last 10%" is almost certainly still going to be the least dense, longest backhaul cases.

Except...

EO's are a special case that don't quite fit right - they're probably dense enough, and have short backhaul (certainly reasonable backhaul). However, they have an excessive build cost for a different reason.

My gut feel is that most EO lines that go in "bundles", while not cost-effective during commercial deployment, will prove to be OK for BDUK funding.

But it is no more than a gut feel.


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Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 20-Apr-13 20:56:44
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Re: FTTV - Fibre To The Village (really FTTdp)


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
The issue is not technical it is cost and the race to get high levels of coverage in short time


I agree. The solution is going to be in the balance of cost of backhaul, cabinet and power - and they way those are offset.

FTTdp boxes have the in-built advantage of the reverse power, so it changes the shape of the playing field a bit. If end-users can be persuaded to power them!
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 20-Apr-13 21:00:02
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Re: FTTV - Fibre To The Village (really FTTdp)


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
There are smaller vdsl units a 48 line one they are playing with for small EO clusters.

That makes sense - and we saw them proudly showing these DSLAMs as "NGA innovation" a couple of years ago (alongside the shovels and conductive concrete).

We've just not heard about them since!

I'd have thought they could fit the job of handling clusters that are too far from the PCP for regular FTTC too, though there's scope for more complication there.
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 20-Apr-13 21:17:04
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Re: FTTV - Fibre To The Village (really FTTdp)


[re: Crusiux] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Crusiux:
The idea of 'reverse' power sounds interesting though I wonder how much it would cost on top of usual service. Seems like a recipe for disagreement to me! Especially if one uses it a lot more than the others; should they pay more than the others?


Yup. Room for a good disagreement there, and I wonder if an operator will feel the need for wayleave-type agreements.

It looks like the initial discussions expect power capability to be like "power over ethernet", amounting to around 400mA at around 48V, max 15 Watts, or 14W at the remote node after losses. About the same as leaving a low-energy lightbulb on all the time.

I've seen one graph that suggests a dp node may need around 3 users to be powering it before it can even start to function.

Elsewhere, however, I've seen an Italian company with a product where the user supplies the power that his own portion uses.

A good question comes - what happens if *all* the users turn things off. The ONT can't communicate with the exchange head-end then.
Standard User gah789
(newbie) Sat 20-Apr-13 21:35:17
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Re: FTTV - Fibre To The Village (really FTTdp)


[re: somerset] [link to this post]
 
My parallel would be with electricity. Subject to safety regulations it is possible to permit anyone to use the high voltage grid to transmit power. They would have to pay connection costs and some structure of uniform transport costs. Usually there are rules to deal with capacity constraints at key nodes in the system. The grid is a simple transport utility with (relatively) open access.

A core fibre network system operating under open access can be required to fulfil any reasonable request to provide fibre connections at any exchange on payment of a standard connection charge plus a data transport charge. The point is that you move away from a system under which each exchange or new leased line is expected to bear the costs of installing fibre to a specific location to one in which the costs of the whole network are spread over all users. Usually, the result is an improvement in overall network efficiency.

Some end users will pay more, though in most networks the increase is very small, while the bottom 10% or whatever will get access to services that would be uneconomic if they have to pay the costs of installing fibre to remote areas. All that is guaranteed is access to the fibre core on reasonable terms. That is where cooperatives or other local distributors have a role.

The basic idea is simple and standard for other networks. Most regulation focuses on the "final mile", i.e. your phone line which is the distribution link from exchange to premise. However, for many rural areas it is the existence of and access to fibre links from exchange to central aggregation points that is the critical issue.

There are, of course, many technical complications but the key issue is one of philosophy. The original vision of the "information highway" was one of a public utility providing data transport. The question is whether it is possible (yes) and desirable (your decision) to reassert that vision.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 20-Apr-13 21:47:28
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Re: FTTV - Fibre To The Village (really FTTdp)


[re: gah789] [link to this post]
 
So how many exchanges don't have fibre available in them?

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User MCM
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 21-Apr-13 02:51:19
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Re: FTTV - Fibre To The Village (really FTTdp)


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
My gut feel is that most EO lines that go in "bundles", while not cost-effective during commercial deployment, will prove to be OK for BDUK funding.

But it is no more than a gut feel.
Sadly I don't believe that there is any BDUK funding for those of us living in the big cities. The connected city funding is instead being spent on public Wi-Fi and the like rather than those BT has chosen, for whatever reason, to omit from their NGA programme. I live on a development of 75 properties, all EO, with approaching 100 lines connected to the Vauxhall exchange 2km away in Kennington. Other properties in the same road have the choice of FTTC or VM. BT, to date, have refused to provide any information to us whatsoever as to whether we will ever have access to faster broadband.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sun 21-Apr-13 10:44:16
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Re: FTTV - Fibre To The Village (really FTTdp)


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
What you say is logical but this rollout hasnt been entirely logical, I expect political intervention has been involved also.

There is still some parts of my city which have no rollout plans eg. and because BDUK is for rural they seem to have no hope.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012
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