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Standard User huwwatkins
(committed) Sun 05-May-13 21:33:09
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Re: Concerned about FTTC connection


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
I would but it happened when I was out and as my IP address changes every time there is a re-sync the TBB graph just shows red.
Standard User therioman
(knowledge is power) Sun 05-May-13 22:32:53
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Re: Concerned about FTTC connection


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
This is one of my bugbears with these guys, if an Openreach bod has to install VDSL, they have a mandatory instruction to have the line pass an end to end pair quality test, and a scripted VDSL closeout test, both these are uploaded after the task and are visible to both Openreach and the CP, oh and THEN do an Eclipse test. If the pair is iffy, they have to fix it there and then. If something wiring wise looks dubious, it's always worth taking a quick look, if there is a fault reported against the service within the 1st 28 days, the installer gets an ELF (early life failure) one of the many stats they are measured by.


...and having recently had 8 pstn circuits installed at the same premises (and for reasons that only make sense to openreach, all on different days), I can tell you that the lines that were installed by real, quality Openreach engineers work without issue, in 100% of cases.

The ones installed by "Kelly Communications" well, er, aren't all working - every single one has a fault, especially now we've added broadband. Openreach guys were each on site for about 45 minutes by the time they'd done the cabinet run, whereas Kelly were in for about 10-15 minutes. Admittedly in 2 cases the previous OR engineer had done some prep for them, but still.

I'm pretty close to refusing jobs where Kelly turn up.

The contractors have none of this to do. It has been asked why these guys can do 8 jobs a day, and Openreach only 4, go figure. False economy in my book, no one appears to realise how much time and money Openreach waste clearing up after these guys work, usually star wiring left in situ, extensions teed before the NTE, etc. Thats not to mention the installs they throw back in the pot for some trumped up excuse. Quality.


They can only do "8 jobs" if you define "done" as "not tested or finished"

Long live real Openreach engineers.

Never mind, self install VDSL on its way soon, so instead of clearing up after these guys, Openreach can be charging the CP's when their engineers have to go sort out the mess the punters have made. wink


Still think personally all BB installs should have been proper engineer installed, which eliminates loads of potential issues and makes it nice and tidy in the long run if a fault develops.
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Mon 06-May-13 06:57:04
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Re: Concerned about FTTC connection


[re: therioman] [link to this post]
 
Still think personally all BB installs should have been proper engineer installed, which eliminates loads of potential issues

Nice sentiment, but sadly, cost is the true governing factor. It's not just the CP's, the average punter just wants it cheap as chips.


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Standard User therioman
(knowledge is power) Tue 07-May-13 10:12:24
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Re: Concerned about FTTC connection


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
I realise that, but as usual that's because we've let everyone expect it for sod all.

If we'd kept BB pricing as it was when it came out, sure adoption would have taken longer, but the revenue and profitability would be higher and thus overall ability to invest and make things better higher too. But instead everyone plays race to the bottom.

Sadly BT Retail are as much a part of the problem as anything else.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Tue 07-May-13 10:49:54
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Re: Concerned about FTTC connection


[re: therioman] [link to this post]
 
What would happen if BT retail kept prices high? Users would select alternate ISPs which would result in the overall BT profit being lower which would also result in less money for BT to invest in overall infrastructure including FTTC/P &c. So, BT retail were forced to reduce prices which as you say is not good for long term investment.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Tue 07-May-13 17:55:01
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Re: Concerned about FTTC connection


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
What would happen if BT retail kept prices high? Users would select alternate ISPs which would result in the overall BT profit being lower which would also result in less money for BT to invest in overall infrastructure including FTTC/P &c. So, BT retail were forced to reduce prices which as you say is not good for long term investment.


Most of those "other ISPs" (unless you mean Virgin Cable) use the Openreach infrastructure anyway, so there would have been the same amount of money for infrastructure investment, no ?

Unless BT retail ISPs profits are ploughed back into Openreach, and not into the ISP side (ie, higher capacity peering connections).

James BT Infinity 2 19/09/2012 - Speeds 49 / 8.2 Mbps - Sync 53 / 9.5 Mbps @ 470m
Huawei modem -> RT-N66U -> Switch -> PC/Mac/Linux/NAS/Phone/TV - last speedtest
13 years of broadband - 1999 ntl:(512k/1M)/BTbusiness(2M)/Metronet(2M)/Bulldog(8M/16M)/BE(19M/16M)/BT FTTC(46M)
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Tue 07-May-13 18:07:11
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Re: Concerned about FTTC connection


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
All of BT's profits from every division go to BT plc. Each division puts forward an investment programme for the next 1, 2, 5 & 10 years and the BT board allocates funding to those programmes based specific criteria. So, if BT retail turn in less profit then there will be less for investment across the business - that would result in less available for OR and OR would have to reduce investment across all programmes. And if Retail profits are enormous there will be more for investment by OR (and to shareholders).

Just because a programme is underpinning a profit line for a division does not mean that division will get the money back for re-investment.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Tue 07-May-13 18:38:06
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Re: Concerned about FTTC connection


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
All of BT's profits from every division go to BT plc. Each division puts forward an investment programme for the next 1, 2, 5 & 10 years and the BT board allocates funding to those programmes based specific criteria. So, if BT retail turn in less profit then there will be less for investment across the business - that would result in less available for OR and OR would have to reduce investment across all programmes. And if Retail profits are enormous there will be more for investment by OR (and to shareholders).
Just because a programme is underpinning a profit line for a division does not mean that division will get the money back for re-investment.


That makes logical sense, cheers.

James BT Infinity 2 19/09/2012 - Speeds 49 / 8.2 Mbps - Sync 53 / 9.5 Mbps @ 470m
Huawei modem -> RT-N66U -> Switch -> PC/Mac/Linux/NAS/Phone/TV - last speedtest
13 years of broadband - 1999 ntl:(512k/1M)/BTbusiness(2M)/Metronet(2M)/Bulldog(8M/16M)/BE(19M/16M)/BT FTTC(46M)
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Tue 07-May-13 22:46:20
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Re: Concerned about FTTC connection


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by MHC:
What would happen if BT retail kept prices high? Users would select alternate ISPs which would result in the overall BT profit being lower which would also result in less money for BT to invest in overall infrastructure including FTTC/P &c. So, BT retail were forced to reduce prices which as you say is not good for long term investment.


Most of those "other ISPs" (unless you mean Virgin Cable) use the Openreach infrastructure anyway, so there would have been the same amount of money for infrastructure investment, no ?

Unless BT retail ISPs profits are ploughed back into Openreach, and not into the ISP side (ie, higher capacity peering connections).


If we use that theory why do BT keep BT retail in existance? why not get rid of it, sack all the support and admin staff and just profit of BTw and openreach since apparently BT retail makes no money anyway according to talktalk.

I agree with the above poster a race to the bottom is not good for the market, only good for those who think anything above £10 a month for broadband is a ripoff.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012
Standard User Oliver341
(knowledge is power) Tue 07-May-13 22:54:53
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Re: Concerned about FTTC connection


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
If we use that theory why do BT keep BT retail in existance? why not get rid of it, sack all the support and admin staff and just profit of BTw and openreach since apparently BT retail makes no money anyway according to talktalk.

If BT retail wasn't around, Talktalk and Sky would probably charge more for fibre, then BTw and Openreach would sell less product and lose money because customers find it too expensive.

Oliver.
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