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Standard User mark90997
(regular) Sat 27-Apr-13 16:41:46
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FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[link to this post]
 
Hi,

So I am expecting to get FTTC in the next few months and I would like suggestions for which is currently the best single box/modem for FTTC ?

Ideally I would like one that has the wireless built-in maybe with dual band that as fast as possible.

I will be getting this on Sky if that makes any difference.
Standard User asbokid
(member) Sat 27-Apr-13 17:12:01
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: mark90997] [link to this post]
 
There may not be an ideal single device solution. Most devices tend to max out when confronted with the highest VDSL2 line speeds. Currently, the mots powerful series of VDSL2 SoC is Broadcom's 63xx. Although in some condtions, the Lantiq VRX200 series can outperform the Broadcoms in raw line speed. For optimum performance, it's best to use the modem, whatever its chipset, in bridge mode, coupled with a separate router for the pppoe layer, firewalling, NAT'ing, etc.

Have a look at the available VDSL2 CPE chipsets. At the last count, there were surprisingly few on the market.

http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=11470.0

cheers, a
Standard User mark90997
(regular) Sat 27-Apr-13 17:13:04
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: mark90997] [link to this post]
 
Just looking at this now: http://www.fritzbox.eu/en/products/FRITZBox_Fon_WLAN...

Date sheet - http://www.fritzbox.eu/Datenblaetter/AVM_FRITZBox_73...

Would this work with FTTC ok? Does anyone else have a Fritz!box that can comment on this?


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Standard User Alexir
(learned) Sat 27-Apr-13 17:25:56
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: asbokid] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by asbokid:
There may not be an ideal single device solution. Most devices tend to max out when confronted with the highest VDSL2 line speeds.


Does that include the HG622, how does it perform (and will you be getting any more)?
Standard User asbokid
(member) Sat 27-Apr-13 17:26:35
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: mark90997] [link to this post]
 
In some rudimentary tests, the Ikanos Fusiv Vx180, the SoC that powers the Fritz!Box 7390 (and the Sagem [email protected] 2764) slightly underperformed both the Broadcom BCM6368 (found in the HG612 and others) and the Lantiq VRX268 (found in the ECI vg3503j and others).

http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,12300.msg231...

cheers, a

Edited by asbokid (Sat 27-Apr-13 20:20:28)

Standard User asbokid
(member) Sat 27-Apr-13 17:31:52
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: Alexir] [link to this post]
 
Hi yeah, all the devices based on the Broadcom BCM6368 should perform identically, or close to it. A hit in performance probably isn't noticeable if you've only got a sync speed of 50Mbps or less. But it's commonly reported that with line speeds of 100Mbps and more, the device (whatever the chipset flavour) cannot keep up with the tasks of being a modem and a router. The HG622 is no different. So that's probably why Openreach decided to split the functionality between two separate devices. I have got some more. but haven't yet flashed them with English language firmware. I will do smile

cheers, a
Standard User dave2150
(experienced) Sat 27-Apr-13 17:43:57
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: asbokid] [link to this post]
 
I do find it odd that in this day and age, modems/routers cannot keep up with syncs above 50mbit.

The technology is there, they are just using cheaper cpu/memory as the majority of the user base will never notice, I guess.

My Broadband Speed Test
60db Attenuation
Standard User mark90997
(regular) Sat 27-Apr-13 17:51:26
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: dave2150] [link to this post]
 
Just found an old post on the Fritz!box with setup info here
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sat 27-Apr-13 18:36:57
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: mark90997] [link to this post]
 
Sky use funny authentication


__________________________________________________________________________The back pedalling starts here__________________
Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Sat 27-Apr-13 18:48:15
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: mark90997] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mark90997:
I will be getting this on Sky if that makes any difference.

Yes, you will need a box that understands how to handle the DHCP with special options and you will need to extract the username/password from the Sky Hub that you get supplied.

James BT Infinity 2 19/09/2012 - Speeds 49 / 8.2 Mbps - Sync 53 / 9.5 Mbps @ 470m
Huawei modem -> RT-N66U -> Switch -> PC/Mac/Linux/NAS/Phone/TV - last speedtest
13 years of broadband - 1999 ntl:(512k/1M)/BTbusiness(2M)/Metronet(2M)/Bulldog(8M/16M)/BE(19M/16M)/BT FTTC(46M)
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Sat 27-Apr-13 19:18:11
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: dave2150] [link to this post]
 
But most want everything as cheap as possible and then complain it is not good enough. Modems that can just about handle 100Mbps, hubs and routers that have only got 100Mbps Ethernet, Customer service in India, 7 day response/repair times &c &c &c. Costs have to be cut somewhere to give the short-sighted what they demand. Every penny that can be shaved off the easier it is to meet the target price.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 27-Apr-13 19:56:39
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: mark90997] [link to this post]
 
Are you aware that there is an Openreach specification for the capabilites an non-Openreach modem must have, once they allow them at all.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sat 27-Apr-13 21:24:18
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: dave2150] [link to this post]
 
also to keep users upgrading, by making sure the hardware isnt too future proof.

as now days routers dont typically really offer much in terms of new features, just paying really for more power and maybe better wireless.

my asus is defenitly backwards on my billion for features but is 2-3 years newer in release date.
the fritz which is considered very good by many I find very lacking in features for a router.
the only new router on the market for vdsl2 which has what I consider proper features for a power user is the draytek 2850gn and even that router is over £200 new and doesnt even have sim dual band wireless so lacks future proofing on hardware side.

for a router/modem with the chipset asbokid reccomends it seems the cheap tg789n mentioned on here the other day uses broadcom.

If you want chipset to match dslam I would get tg789n for hg dslam and fritz 3370 (maybe) for eci dslam. As both those devices match chipset with dslams. the fritz 7390 has a different chipset that doesnt match.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012

Edited by Chrysalis (Sat 27-Apr-13 21:24:44)

Standard User R0NSKI
(experienced) Sun 28-Apr-13 00:29:54
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
It really bugs me how so much hardware still only has 100Mbps ports, surely 1Gbps hardware doesn't cost that much more, and if all manufacturers switched to using that as the minimum spec prices would come down anyway - presuming demand didn't exceed supply.

Standard User MHC
(sensei) Sun 28-Apr-13 00:40:41
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
It really does come down to a penny here, a penny there ... or even a tenth of a penny!

A friend was a Cost and Management Accountant at Ford (UK) and he had responsibility for continually looking at costs of vehicles, approving changes through to setting the wholesale prices. If he could find a way to save a pound on a vehicle he would.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User The_Voyager
(committed) Sun 28-Apr-13 10:25:54
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: mark90997] [link to this post]
 
I have the Fritz! 7390 on a BT Infinity2 connection and I get superb results, but then I am only about 340m away from the cab, I am awaiting a reply from their tech people with regards to vectoring, as some here think it may not be compatible. There have also been reports of it not being very good if the supplied modem is the ECI rather than the Huawei

There is also a thread here about the same thing:
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/showthread.php/31226...

Bob WRBRIX
BT Infinity 2 - Fritz! 7390 ~ Sync 79.99/20 Mbits Actual 76.27/19.69 Mbits @ 320m
DialUp to CIX, BT Home Highway+CIX, ADSL1 Nildram, ADSL2 SKY & Be*Unlimited
Standard User lexden16
(member) Sun 28-Apr-13 12:28:49
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: The_Voyager] [link to this post]
 
+1 for the 7390 on a BT Wholesale FTTC connection. FWIW, I had a modem issue with my 2=year old F!B 7390 and AVM replaced it with a new item without any argument whatsoever.

I think by the time vectoring is rolled out, my trusty F!B may well be due for retirement.
Standard User The_Voyager
(committed) Sun 28-Apr-13 13:02:49
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: lexden16] [link to this post]
 
Well I've only had mine about a year now, and I've only had to reboot it once, I've seen in the log it occasionally loses the sync but regains it very quickly, without me noticing it.

Hopefully they will come back to me with an answer to the vectoring, because I think BT may be pushing ahead with this sooner rather than later. AVM are a bit slow sometimes in answering tech questions, probably down to language difficulties. There is also a possibility of a new firmware update so don't know if that will offer any solutions

Bob WRBRIX
BT Infinity 2 - Fritz! 7390 ~ Sync 79.99/20 Mbits Actual 76.27/19.69 Mbits @ 320m
DialUp to CIX, BT Home Highway+CIX, ADSL1 Nildram, ADSL2 SKY & Be*Unlimited
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sun 28-Apr-13 13:11:47
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
in response to my previous post which I cant edit now, of course a hg622 modem would do also with broadcom chipset. or even a hg612 in router mode.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sun 28-Apr-13 13:17:06
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: lexden16] [link to this post]
 
bear in mind the 7390 is defenitly overkill on price if you dont need the phone functions, as a router its only slightly better than the 3370 which is half the cost. Plus the 3370 uses a newer dsl chipset (the 3370 is a newer gen fritzbox than 7390) that matches the chipset used in eci dslams.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012
Standard User caffn8me
(knowledge is power) Sun 28-Apr-13 13:58:41
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: mark90997] [link to this post]
 
I use a Draytek 2850 on one FTTC connection and a Cisco 887va on another. Both work fine and are untroubled by large data transfers up or down.

I run a VPN on the Draytek which terminates to a Watchguard firewall behind the Cisco. The internet and VPN connections are very stable.

The Draytek LAN ports are all gigabit but I understand a new VDSL2 router will be coming soon from Draytek (2860) which gives better throughput when using an ethernet WAN so is more suitable for FTTP.

Sarah

--
If I can't drink my bowl of coffee three times daily, then in my torment, I will shrivel up like a piece of roast goat

Spiders on coffee - Badass spiders on drugs
Standard User lexden16
(member) Sun 28-Apr-13 14:03:16
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: The_Voyager] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by The_Voyager:
There is also a possibility of a new firmware update so don't know if that will offer any solutions


Firmware version 05.51 was released about 10 days ago.
Standard User mark90997
(regular) Sun 28-Apr-13 14:44:21
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
bear in mind the 7390 is defenitly overkill on price if you dont need the phone functions, as a router its only slightly better than the 3370 which is half the cost. Plus the 3370 uses a newer dsl chipset (the 3370 is a newer gen fritzbox than 7390) that matches the chipset used in eci dslams.


I will keep that in mind. I actually like the idea of having the phone base station inside the router like that.

Keep the comments coming its all very interesting so far smile
Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Sun 28-Apr-13 14:45:38
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: caffn8me] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by caffn8me:
The Draytek LAN ports are all gigabit but I understand a new VDSL2 router will be coming soon from Draytek (2860) which gives better throughput when using an ethernet WAN so is more suitable for FTTP.

It will be interesting to see if the 2860 can do simultaneous dual band WiFi as well - given the speeds of FTTP it will be needed.

James BT Infinity 2 19/09/2012 - Speeds 49 / 8.2 Mbps - Sync 53 / 9.5 Mbps @ 470m
Huawei modem -> RT-N66U -> Switch -> PC/Mac/Linux/NAS/Phone/TV - last speedtest
13 years of broadband - 1999 ntl:(512k/1M)/BTbusiness(2M)/Metronet(2M)/Bulldog(8M/16M)/BE(19M/16M)/BT FTTC(46M)
Standard User The_Voyager
(committed) Mon 29-Apr-13 00:18:12
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: lexden16] [link to this post]
 
Thanks, just downloaded it and the update to the Fon firmware smile

Bob WRBRIX
BT Infinity 2 - Fritz! 7390 ~ Sync 79.99/20 Mbits Actual 76.27/19.69 Mbits @ 320m
DialUp to CIX, BT Home Highway+CIX, ADSL1 Nildram, ADSL2 SKY & Be*Unlimited
Standard User simon194
(committed) Mon 29-Apr-13 00:30:04
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Sky use funny authentication

It may be funny but "DHCP with Option 61" is an acceptable standard for authenticating devices on networks. smile
Standard User kirbyan
(newbie) Mon 29-Apr-13 08:03:19
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: mark90997] [link to this post]
 
I have a Fritz 7390 and it's a tidy single box alternative with a *lot* of features including DECT base station and answerphone. It syncs as fast as the original openreach modem did and gives detailed line stats for diagnosing line problems. I also like the 5GHz wireless which works very well.

You can also disable the built in modem and use it as a router with the original HG612 from BT in place of the HomeHub. I did this when BT were due to visit to investigate a problem on my line.

Make sure you buy a UK one... My mistake was buying one in Germany. The German version comes with 'special' firmware that only supports Annexe B and cannot be flashed easily to the international version of firmware that supports settings needed for use in the UK. It is possible, but very hard work requiring trawling german language forums and hacking tools.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Mon 29-Apr-13 09:26:01
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: simon194] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by simon194:
It may be funny but "DHCP with Option 61" is an acceptable standard for authenticating devices on networks. smile
Which single box VDSL2 router/modems support it?


__________________________________________________________________________The back pedalling starts here__________________
Standard User mark90997
(regular) Mon 29-Apr-13 09:45:42
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
In reply to a post by simon194:
It may be funny but "DHCP with Option 61" is an acceptable standard for authenticating devices on networks. smile
Which single box VDSL2 router/modems support it?


I'd be interested in this also. I even might get a Fritz!box if someone else here is willing to help me to try and get it to send the DHCP option 61 and connect with Sky.

I did find this preveous topic interesting it even mentions a config tool - How to get a Fritz!Box 7390 working as a VDSL modem
Standard User lexden16
(member) Mon 29-Apr-13 10:27:48
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: mark90997] [link to this post]
 
There is no need for a config tool for the F!B7390. UK FTTC configuration was simplified in a firmware update in late April 11. The only settings needed are UserName, Password, VLAN 101, VPI 1, VCI32 and PPPoE. For BT Wholesale FTTC, these settings are usually picked up automatically by the Set Up Wizard. I cannot speak for the 7390 on a Sky connection. You could try emailing AVM support in Berlin. They have a number of English speakers on their support team and I have always found them to be extremely helpful.

Edit: You could also try posting your question on the Sky User forum.

Edited by lexden16 (Mon 29-Apr-13 10:29:41)

Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Mon 29-Apr-13 18:44:40
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
In reply to a post by simon194:
It may be funny but "DHCP with Option 61" is an acceptable standard for authenticating devices on networks. smile
Which single box VDSL2 router/modems support it?

Very few I think smile Its very uncommon in home user networks.

James BT Infinity 2 19/09/2012 - Speeds 49 / 8.2 Mbps - Sync 53 / 9.5 Mbps @ 470m
Huawei modem -> RT-N66U -> Switch -> PC/Mac/Linux/NAS/Phone/TV - last speedtest
13 years of broadband - 1999 ntl:(512k/1M)/BTbusiness(2M)/Metronet(2M)/Bulldog(8M/16M)/BE(19M/16M)/BT FTTC(46M)
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 29-Apr-13 18:57:02
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Is that the technical term for MER?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Mon 29-Apr-13 19:35:07
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Is that the technical term for MER?

On FTTC yes - can't confirm about ADSL.

One of the SkyUser forum members posted a guide on how to packet sniff the traffic between the Sky router and the Openreach modem, and it was just the DHCP option 61 that was required - easy enough to do on a full Linux, but not many domestic market routers offer DHCP option 61 in their web interface.

James BT Infinity 2 19/09/2012 - Speeds 49 / 8.2 Mbps - Sync 53 / 9.5 Mbps @ 470m
Huawei modem -> RT-N66U -> Switch -> PC/Mac/Linux/NAS/Phone/TV - last speedtest
13 years of broadband - 1999 ntl:(512k/1M)/BTbusiness(2M)/Metronet(2M)/Bulldog(8M/16M)/BE(19M/16M)/BT FTTC(46M)
Standard User mark90997
(regular) Mon 29-Apr-13 20:49:51
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: lexden16] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by lexden16:
There is no need for a config tool for the F!B7390. UK FTTC configuration was simplified in a firmware update in late April 11. The only settings needed are UserName, Password, VLAN 101, VPI 1, VCI32 and PPPoE. For BT Wholesale FTTC, these settings are usually picked up automatically by the Set Up Wizard. I cannot speak for the 7390 on a Sky connection. You could try emailing AVM support in Berlin. They have a number of English speakers on their support team and I have always found them to be extremely helpful.

Edit: You could also try posting your question on the Sky User forum.


I have emailed AVM support and posted on the skyuser forums, although this topic seems to be more active right now.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 29-Apr-13 22:48:21
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
So it's fairly common in the UK? Albeit only from one supplier.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User djmaniak777
(newbie) Tue 30-Apr-13 00:47:34
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
the billion 8200n with a testing firmware is supposed to. im not on sky so cant confirm this.
Test firmware for BiPAC 8200N VDSL modem/ router with Sky FTTC
Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Tue 30-Apr-13 07:54:18
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
So it's fairly common in the UK? Albeit only from one supplier.

I wouldn't say common when only 1 ISP out of over 200 uses it, and you need special firmware from a couple of vendors (Billion and/or Draytek) to work with it. It may be more efficient however.

James BT Infinity 2 19/09/2012 - Speeds 49 / 8.2 Mbps - Sync 53 / 9.5 Mbps @ 470m
Huawei modem -> RT-N66U -> Switch -> PC/Mac/Linux/NAS/Phone/TV - last speedtest
13 years of broadband - 1999 ntl:(512k/1M)/BTbusiness(2M)/Metronet(2M)/Bulldog(8M/16M)/BE(19M/16M)/BT FTTC(46M)
Standard User simon194
(committed) Tue 30-Apr-13 14:27:17
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: djmaniak777] [link to this post]
 
The test firmware on the 8200N does work with Sky but the router doesn't work too well with ECI kit, syncing some 15Mbps lower than the OR modem.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 30-Apr-13 14:54:59
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
I wouldn't say common when only 1 ISP out of over 200 uses it
Ummm smile

In use on more WANs than the sum of all except two of those other ISPs?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Tue 30-Apr-13 15:38:11
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Re: FTTC - Best single box router/modem


[re: simon194] [link to this post]
 
all these issues ECI dslams appear to be having, I wonder how much cheaper than the HG they were to make BT accept the issues.

I remember back on BTw adsl as well BT were using multiple vendors, initially I was on the worser one, and when they did move me to the other vendor whilst the connection remained overall poor there was notable improvements on the sync performance.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012
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