Hmmmm... Best OR Infinity install ever? I think not...

So,.. moved house 9 days ago. Only had 10 days notice of the completion date, but put the phone & Infinity 2 migration order through online with automated acknowledgements back. Too busy to chase leading up to move. Move day comes and phone belatedly switched after a call to CS, but no sign of an OR engineer appointment for Infinity. Moved to same road btw, but different cab serves the address, and it's even further away, so mid 20s DL expected rather than previous mid-30s, according to the checker.

Got given the runaround by offshore support first weekend, didn't phone back, was eventually told it could be 6 weeks for an engineer. Managed to escalate and got job appointment for last Friday. Only one problem - I was in Califormia at that time. Spoke to engineer briefly, and confirmed the need for a data extension from master socket (under stairs) to office (upstairs).

Got back from US jet-lagged on Saturday so only managed a quick line diagnostic - DL profile stuck at around 14Mb and UL 20Mb - actual speeds around 13.3/5 versus 25.5/6 estimate via BTW site.

Resolved to look into it further today - and didn't have to look far! New master socket faceplate looks to have been fitted, but data extension port at top is unused! Instead, there appears to now be a 20m telephone extension running (not too professionally clipped) from the back of the master socket to a new junction box in the office, from where a final cable goes to the modem.

Please assure me that I'm not going crazy, and this is indeed a most farcical installation that is going to kill both my Infinity performance and my patience with BT alike...

Mike

An easy way to test it is to plug the modem into the master socket.

Which terminals are the extension connected to at the master.

IIRC there are two specifically for the data extension cable at the top left. Rather than the standard IDC extension connectors.

Just checked - extension runs from bottom centre of the master socket.

M

It should run from two terminals on there own, which are on the intermediate filter plate.

http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv87/Ronskiman/Co...

Can you not locate the modem where the master socket is and then run cat5 cable to your office, might achieve better speed.

As Batboy says, I would plug the modem into the test socket first - you can use one of those old plug in filters just to test.

Edited by R0NSKI (Mon 29-Apr-13 08:11:22)

Thanks R0NSKI - I'll test tonight if I get a chance. My last Infinity install had the data extension cable plugged into the data port at the top section of the socket with a 20m run of cable from there straight to the OR modem.

Are you saying that with what looks a normal line extension cable (not CAT5 width) running from the bottom centre of the socket 20m to a junction box and the on to the modem could be an acceptable extension? I thought the data extension cable from the socket was the only recommended way to connect a modem to the socket over a distance?

M

The correct way is to wire the extension to the correct internal connections. Twisted pair cable should be used, others will be able to tell you the correct spec cable that BT would use. Strange that there is a junction box, it should really go straight to a socket, the more connections the more chance of problem's.

I would unlock the modem and see what the stats are, then plug it into the test socket and check again. If it's an HG612 then it is easy.

That photo from RONSKI is what I meant. (Thanks RONSKI ).

When you say "the bottom centre", do you mean coming from the back as in that picture but continuing, rather than using terminals as shown? (Which I assume your master doesn't have). Not connected to the faceplate.

PICTURES - to avoid confusion on terminology would go a long way.

On the cable spec, anything that is CW1308, CAT3, CAT5, CAT5E or CAT6 should be fine. So if thinner but still circular then probably CW1308

So, I imagined that it should be connected as per the picture on the following site:

Obviously a 20M data extension cable though!

However, it looks like this without the grey or back cables.

Imagine no cables connected to either front connection - main house line goes into master socket at the top centre back and extension leading to junction box/modem comes out of bottom as per the shorter visible white cable.

Just to confirm, if I test with the modem/router local, I should remove faceplate and use the test socket?

M

To me, what you are saying here doesn't seem to tally with your opening post?

I don't really understand this post at all, maybe that's the source of my confusion.

Thinks ....

If your opening post is without having removed the faceplate, that may be where I'm going wrong. I assumed you were describing what is inside there. We need you to tell us what is inside, preferably by taking photos and uploading them somewhere .

Sorry all - jetlag plays havoc with ones memory/common sense

Socket with faceplate on

Cable from back top right is a phone extension to kitchen

Cable plugged into lower part of faceplate is main line

Cable from bottom of master socket is extension to office junction box/modem.

Picture with faceplate off.

Sorry for confuddling things. My wife has kindly supplied photos!

M

Looks like voice extension is off the smaller part of the faceplate, and the vdsl extension is off the two IDC connectors (not visible in photo though).

So yes all looks fine and the cable used looks like standard twisted pair internal building spec, which is fine and to the same sort of specification as the wiring coming into the home.

Testing at the test socket as people have suggested will show if the wiring is contributing to your low speeds.

They have changed the ruling on these, again.

Original set up was as the OP described, pre-made cable + RJ45 in to the 'top' hole of the SSFP, to data extension socket, provided with the kit, looked like an LJU.

Then they went for terminating the ext kit on the two internal krones, and off to the same LJU type socket, this being replaced with an NTE back box/CAT5 front plate a few months later.

Concerns about punters not being able to bypass the data extension kit, led to the end by the NTE having an RJ11 crimped on it and reverted to plugging in to the 'top hole' again.

Latest brief, and this one makes NO sense to me at all, NTE back box/CAT5 fitted by NTE with SSFP, and RJ11 to RJ11 between these two, data extension cable run to where required, and then another NTE/CAT5 box with another lead to the modem. Tatty, daft, and gives plenty of opportunity for stuff to be wrong.

Progress...........

To the OP, is the extension kit cable stapled or cleated ?

That appears badly wired.

The extension to the kitchen should be connected to the 3 way IDC which is visible in the second image - and only that.

The data extension should be connected to te two pin IDC which is probably just out of view - but there are no cables going in the right direction.

Have a look at this annotated image. The wall mounted master is that in t e centre, the VDSL filter - perched on top fits onto the master and finally the voice face plate tipped forward at the bottom plugs into the filter.

OK..... got home, checked profile on existing setup - 17Mb DL, so improving slowly.

Moved kit down to master socket and powered up - 15Mb DL profile.

Moved kit back up and 13Mb...

Think I'll leave it for now to see how it settles... but maybe it'll creep it's way toward 20Mb... or maybe BT will give me free FTTPoD ;-p

Thanks all for ongoing help - will update in a week or so!

M

Did you plug it into the test socket? When doing this all extensions should be dead.

OK.... will try again in a day or two - will just disconnect single landline extension and Sky box, yes?

I guess using a microfilter from the test socket is Ok? I've got nothing else that will work...

Thanks R0NSKI

M

If you take the front two sections of the master socket off this will reveal the test socket. With the front two sections off everything else should be isolated - plug a phone into all extensions and check, there should not be a dial tone.

The picture MHC posted a link to a few posts up shows the various sections and the test socket.

A microfilter should be fine, and ideally you need an unlocked modem so that you can see what is happening to your sync and attainable speeds.

For unlocking the HG612 you in the right hand column here, if you have the ECI version it's a lot easier just to buy an HG612 off Ebay.

Microfilters are not perfect! They are designed for ADSL and not VDSL. In general at the top end (frequency wise) they do not perform as well as they should or as well as VDSL face plates.

But isn't the VDSL side unfiltered, only the telephone side being filtered, so for testing purposes should be ok?

With no phone connected yes perfectly fine

And in the vast majority of cases a phone should be fine, unless it is also a phone producing masses of noise in the 2.2MHz to 17 MHz band

It is, but the filters that I have seen are not perfect low-pass filters. Yes, they allow the voice frequencies through and stop the DSL frequencies but as the frequency rises the characteristics of the filter changes presenting some very odd impedances to the DSL signal which can cause problems. Remember, all it needs to do is stop the frequencies up to about 100kHz reaching the voice circuit above that you will not be able to hear it (20KHz) and it will not affect the speaker/earpiece. The spec for filters does give impedances ad attenuations up into MHz regions but above that ????

An associate in the US did some filter characterisation two or three years back on various DSL filters. Once they started to get above around 8MHz the results were "all over the place". They were fine on ADSL but on VDSL they will not perform as well as one designed for VDSL especially with Profile 17.

I have tried a line which gave around 70Mbps with a VDSL faceplate, the ADSL faceplate dropped it to around 65 and use of dangly filters of various types were from about 65 down to 30 and then back to 70 when the VDSL face plate was returned.

So that begs the question, which VDSL interstitial filter plate performs the best?

I did try 3 things on my line.

The original vdsl faceplate put in by FTTC engineer.
xf-1e dongle.
test socket.

all 3 were pretty much the same. I am currently using the vdsl faceplate again.

Pass, but my original ADSL Nation plate was not replaced and you can see what I get in my sig