I want FTTPoD - please take my money!

I was hoping this would be pushed out faster. Considering their would be more people like my self to pay for it, and so they would get a wider "test" coverage.

Havent heard a peep since the original exchange announcement - If someone from BT is reading this, I am on Goodmayes exchange and I want FTTPoD

Snake,

If you consider that :

- Openreach seem to have BIG issues delivering FTTP to areas they have agreed to include in the commercial deployment - high takeup areas.

- They seem to have issues with deployment in anything other than a straightforward deployment. MDU/flat or private road etc etc just forget it.

- Even when they have Exchange to premises ducting they seem to have managed to screw it up - no dig required.

- Do OR actually have the resources available to do the work with the commercial deployment and BDUK.

- What will the lead time be? Will it be 6 months? Will customers accept 6 month lead times?

I seriously now doubt that BT will go forward with the deployment and I think it more likely they will push forward with vectoring and bonding instead. FTTP will be deployed to any new build areas and I guess they will provide a route for landlords of large blocks of flat to deploy the technology - head off some of the competition in that area.


Regards,

Damn, I was expecting a more positive response - I did think FTTC maybe the stop gap for a LONG time... before anyone decides FTTP is required.

So I'm interesting in FTTP, however I don't think I really 'need' it. I'm just one of those geeky people who like that kind of thing.

What do you need the extra speed for? I have 80mb down and 20mb up and hardly ever utilise it. I DO get a big smile when I see files being transferred at 8.5mb/s though

Steve

In reply to a post by boxst:

I DO get a big smile when I see files being transferred at 8.5mb/s though

As slow as that?

I think you meant to type MB/s

Edited by Rastus (Tue 25-Jun-13 11:02:07)

There are cases such as a friend of mine who is on one of the announced FTTPoD exchanges. He gets sub 1Mbps ADSL, and often sub 500kbps. FTTC is unlikely to work given the 4km distance to cabinet and if it does it will be way down at 1Mb or below. In his case, and that of his neighbours FTTPoD is the only solution - they ALL want it.

300Mbps is more than is needed but given the choice of that or 500kbps - which would you choose?

But the deployment HAS started in an initial area, just like they did with FTTC.

just because it hasn't been rolled out nationally doesn't mean it isn't coming and FTTPoD is a different product to the FTTP areas.

I would expect OR to fully commit to this but I think a lot of people will balk at the install prices and that will keep takeup low.

Everything else is pure speculation until there is a formal announcement.

All the same, It would be interesting to see how things develop with other Service Providers/Operators who are moving into this area.. HyperOptic is just one such company I guess its something to keep an eye on in the future.
But I think Vectoring and bonding products would make to most sense in terms of feasibility to BT to be able to offer higher speeds as an alternative to FTTH/p in the short/mid-term..

I hope I'm wrong, as I would love to be tapping into my own personal 1Gig pipe..

That's going to cost hem a fair bit then. I suggest they should form a group guaranteeing a minimum take-up and apply en bloc totry and minimise the quote per user.

Are any ISPs offering the full 330Mbps, or are they slugging it to 160Mbps?

I get about 70mb/20mb, as someone else said, I am very Geeky and like to have the latest and greatest. Considering I work in IT it helps having the speed.

I keep an eye in the local road works, even though most of our cabs are up and running.

I've noticed that bt are still doing a lot of duct work and new chambers/repairs, in areas where cabs are live.

I wonder if this is in preparation for FTTPod or whether they doing repairs highlighted from previous surveys just to get there ducts up to scratch.

Edited by R0NSKI (Tue 25-Jun-13 13:28:12)

Or they could be installing business connections?

In reply to a post by R0NSKI:

I keep an eye in the local road works, even though most of our cabs are up and running.

I've noticed that bt are still doing a lot of duct work and new chambers/repairs, in areas where cabs are live.

I wonder if this is in preparation for FTTPod or whether they doing repairs highlighted from previous surveys just to get there ducts up to scratch.

Repairs are normal. BT do a lot of repair work anyway. From what I can work out, BT have a had to revisit a lot of the FTTC work to make good the original work. In my araa they also appear to have installed some more chambers to allow for future housing development.

In FTTP areas, BT have had to do a lot of work in response to installation requests because of duct blockages.

I don't think BT have complete duct surveys for each area. The area I live in is going to be FTTP but the survey was only done in Nov 2011 (I observed two young guys with lots of kit in back packs following the duct route using something like http://www.radiodetection.co.uk/application.asp?sec_...

Regards,

Gareth

You've got a ) on the end of your link.

May be it is just routine work, but I've been monitoring the roadworks.org site since early last year and there just seems to be more frequent works than there was.

In reply to a post by garethr:

Snake,

If you consider that :

- Openreach seem to have BIG issues delivering FTTP to areas they have agreed to include in the commercial deployment - high takeup areas.

- They seem to have issues with deployment in anything other than a straightforward deployment. MDU/flat or private road etc etc just forget it.

- Even when they have Exchange to premises ducting they seem to have managed to screw it up - no dig required.

- Do OR actually have the resources available to do the work with the commercial deployment and BDUK.

- What will the lead time be? Will it be 6 months? Will customers accept 6 month lead times?

I seriously now doubt that BT will go forward with the deployment and I think it more likely they will push forward with vectoring and bonding instead. FTTP will be deployed to any new build areas and I guess they will provide a route for landlords of large blocks of flat to deploy the technology - head off some of the competition in that area.


Regards,

Complete and utter rubbish especially "I seriously now doubt that BT will go forward with the deployment"

If an area has fttc then no further work done for fttp on demand until someone orders a connection

That's what I want to do, however they don't cover my area just yet... I think Simon at IDNET know's ill be ready to sign the dotted line (if not their first customer) as I have bombarded him with requests about FTTPoD

Surely, at present, FTTPoD is 330 or nothing, sure I saw this on the news on here ?

they may be an all lose situation, havent OR reserved the right to reject orders that are too high distance?

Possibly ... but there are a few other residents locally there with money and lots of it. What really annoys them is the distance by road to the exchange is around 1.2km and radially about 0.5 to 0.6 but a line length of 9km or so

In reply to a post by GMAN98:

Complete and utter rubbish especially "I seriously now doubt that BT will go forward with the deployment"

Meeeeowww...

Are you not aware of the issues they are having? Where I live BT still haven't completed FTTP infrastructure installation in brownfield trial estates they started in 2010!. They have serious technical and implementation issues which they still haven't overcome.

With BT looking set to deploy vectoring how can the (large) expense of FTTPoD across the UK be justified - not to mention the diversion of valuable resource. There is an argument that it won't be that popular or taken up by any ISP!

I think it will happen but I can't see why they would wan't to go forward with it at the moment. They simply don't appear to be position to deal with it.

Regards,

Gareth

In reply to a post by garethr:

In reply to a post by GMAN98:

Complete and utter rubbish especially "I seriously now doubt that BT will go forward with the deployment"

Meeeeowww...

Are you not aware of the issues they are having? Where I live BT still haven't completed FTTP infrastructure installation in brownfield trial estates they started in 2010!. They have serious technical and implementation issues which they still haven't overcome.

Well FTTP is available in many parts of Cornwall, including my own line.

Edited by Rastus (Wed 26-Jun-13 12:53:53)

A number of places that were slated for brownfield FTTP have become FTTC with the advent of FTTPoD.

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2013/04/bt-aban...

FTTPoD is happening and will be deployed widely. A better question would perhaps be with the advent of vectoring and higher speed FTTC how could the expense of FTTP be justified? FTTPoD is a really cunning product, it allows Openreach to build out their fibre network closer to homes and have those ordering the service contribute towards the costs. It's a far better commercial proposition for Openreach than FTTP.

The issues are probably as much about resource as they are technical. Deliver fibre to a cabinet and 400 homes are live for NGA, deliver fibre to a single house and that house only is live for NGA. Chasing a coverage target it's a no brainer to prioritise cabinets over premises.

Issues are irrelevant you just decided on your own that BT have pulled a new product line!

What large expense of FTTPoD across the UK? The customer foots the bill for it, same for resource

I don't see why there would be major technical and implementation issues, Openreach have been rolling out fibre for years.

Anyway all of that aside, my point was that you just decided that the product was dead in the water as they are having issues where you live, which is obviously nonsense unless you hear it from Openreach themselves.

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

FTTPoD is a really cunning product, it allows Openreach to build out their fibre network closer to homes and have those ordering the service contribute towards the costs. It's a far better commercial proposition for Openreach than FTTP.

I strongly agree with that. I think it is a very very clever product. But, it requires a huge amount of resources to deploy a single PON. If that PON only has one house on it then (despite the high cost to the consumer) BT are still going to be well out of pocket.

I've already seen people talking about bulk discounts for a whole street connecting etc. Nice idea but I think discounts are very unlikely.

So from my perspective I can see it happening - but not yet. FTTP hasn't exactly been a hit with the big providers.

Regards,

Gareth

Indeed which is why the only tier of service available with FTTPoD at this time is the 330/30Mb product. Squarely keeps the product to either the business or the more money than sense ubernerd market.

Is it really a huge amount of resource to put in a splitter? Most of the work has been done hasn't it? The aggregation node is there, its just a case of running fibre from that to a new splitter node and then from there to the pole/street FDP and then to the home.

Just not sure about the huge amount of resource you talk of, there's obviously plenty of work to do to bring a customer on line but as for the splitter I dunno, can't see where the huge comes from

Depends if there's PON kit in the exchange too - FTTC "just" requires GigE fibre backhaul but PON requires the multiplexing and PON management in the exchange to do what the DSLAM does in ADSL in terms of managing the user connections with their VLANs etc etc.

Handover nodes are built to handle fttc and fttp

The fttc rollout could probably be slightly cheaper if it had not been built to accommodate the idea of on demand.

Our lines are all underground, and I'm pretty certain they are not in ducts, so our estate would be expensive to do.

Sure I was assuming the OLT in exchange, thats not huge resource either, expense sure but not huge resource

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Handover nodes are built to handle fttc and fttp

Do the handover nodes include an OLT and line cards? I understood them to be layer 2 switches but would welcome correction.

http://blog.thinkbroadband.com/2012/11/spotters-guid...

Falmouth that serves 8 other areas and includes c and p

Noted, however the actual OLT is a different piece of kit from the L2 switch that does the handovers so there's a fair chance that a number of handover points have no OLT as it's not required for FTTC:

http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/super-...

I imagine a part of the bespoke FTTPoD build would be provisioning of a new OLT in sites that are currently all FTTC. Could even be part of the explanation for the staggered rollout of FTTPoD.

You seem to be right...

From this document:
http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/super-...

The pro-active part, built alongside FTTC, includes an OCR - whatever that is. The reactive part, built with the first FTTPoD order, includes the GPON OLT.

However, with different CPs having backhaul from the L2S, doesn't the fibre for FTTC (point to point) need an OLT somewhere in the sequence, before the L2S?

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

However, with different CPs having backhaul from the L2S, doesn't the fibre for FTTC (point to point) need an OLT somewhere in the sequence, before the L2S?

Not sure I understand the question, could the L2S not connect to the FTTC cab DSLAM direct if it has optical ports ?

I'm a bit lost as well, but FTTPoD does not touch the FTTC cabinet, and presumably OR have good reason(s) for that.

Ronski,

Mine has UG ducts with small ducts into each house - so running fibre myself is an option . However, our cab is knackered and has some interesting cross wiring to another cab - someones now going to tell me thats [censored] but trust me the BT infrastructure in the area is evil.

Anyway, BT have just sub-ducted to the roads for 300 houses to install FTTP. It took OR engineers about 3 weeks and at points involved 2-6 engineers, a winch and for some strange reason best known to OR a jet wash. We still don't have the PONs or any fibre AFAIK. The FTTP will share and aggregation node which is fibred to a FTTC cab which was completed in Nov 2012 but isn't yet live.

Regards,


Gareth

Didn't OR toy with the idea of using passive DWDM splitters within the FTTC cab? I'm sure there is a document about that.

Do both the ECI and Huawei just need further OLT cards?

The area I'm in is a core node child and has ECI based FTTC gear. Where as the UK core parent is Huawei. Isn't there some catch that the ECI can accept OLT cards but the Huawei needs to separate chassis. BT seem to use ECI for smaller Exchanges for some reason. Anyone any idea?

Regards,

Gareth

In reply to a post by garethr:

............. and for some strange reason best known to OR a jet wash.

Water jet washing out of silt that is blocking ducts

Actually if you really increase the pressure to around 60000 psi with a very fine nozzle you can use water to very accurately cut shapes in metal sheet etc.

In reply to a post by garethr:

Didn't OR toy with the idea of using passive DWDM splitters within the FTTC cab? I'm sure there is a document about that.

Pass, There's not a whole lot of space in a cabinet to accommodate large radius fibre routing.