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Standard User garethr
(regular) Fri 05-Jul-13 18:05:08
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Delayed cab. We now know why


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Hi,

I live on a housing estate of around 900 homes near Milton Keynes. The estate is 6km from the Exchange in a nearby town and split down the middle between two cabinets. One half getting FTTC the other half getting FTTP.

The FTTP ducting has been installed and we're now just waiting for installation.

However, the FTTC cab has been installed since November and has power and a fibre connection to the Exchange. BT tried to reshell the PCP in March but appeared to abandon the work. I got told that and engineers working the area had advised that they were banned from doing any work on the PCP - no reason was given. BT have now resubmitted to REBUILD the PCP in a difference place... Which doesn't quite stack up...

Then we discovered an old streets work request form a contractor that states

""re dig patch to show to BT OR that cab cannot be reshelled due to HV cable in concrete"

Are they serious? Has anyone seen anything like that before. All 900 homes on the estate have serious problems with ADSL <2 Mbps and REIN.

Regards,


Gareth

Gareth
BT Internet 21CN ADSL 1.4Mbps/400Kbps
BT Infinity FTTP 166Mbps/20Mbps soon
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Fri 05-Jul-13 18:10:55
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Re: Delayed cab. We now know why


[re: garethr] [link to this post]
 
HV cable near to telephony cables =electrical induction?. if so it would go a long way in explaining why ADSL performance is pants for you, are there any faint buzzing or humming noises present on the line when doing a quite line test, if so that could well be electrical induction at play
Hopefully the reloaction of the PCP will slove this for you,

Edited by tommy45 (Fri 05-Jul-13 18:14:03)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 05-Jul-13 18:32:34
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Re: Delayed cab. We now know why


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tommy45:
if so it would go a long way in explaining why ADSL performance is pants for you
Would have thought that long way from exchange would go a longer way to explain slow ADSL performance grin.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC


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Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Fri 05-Jul-13 18:45:09
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Re: Delayed cab. We now know why


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Well the longer the distance from exchange the more that electrical induction is likely to be a factor, and the number of points of electrical interference along it's route will increase, And no BT openreach won't do anything about electrical induction,
But at least if they move the existing PCP all the associated cabling should get routed well away from that HV cable, and fingers xrossed for the op that they get a D'side pair that is free from it
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 05-Jul-13 19:45:38
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Re: Delayed cab. We now know why


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tommy45:
HV cable near to telephony cables =electrical induction?.

Like all electrical interference, it mainly comes if the cables run in parallel. If they cross at 90 degrees, then there is much less likelihood of problems.

We should ask how on earth the HV line ended up encased in the concrete footings...
Standard User gazzyk1ns
(committed) Fri 05-Jul-13 23:11:20
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Re: Delayed cab. We now know why


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
We should ask how on earth the HV line ended up encased in the concrete footings...


Indeed. Surely they must be a bit deeper/slightly away from the footings of a PCP, and they're just playing it safe, but still... someone made a bit of a silly planning decision, didn't they, depending on which was there first.

As has been said though, hopefully the wait will be worth it, a PCP relocated to a preferable (fingers crossed...) location is almost unheard of, isn't it?

Edited by gazzyk1ns (Fri 05-Jul-13 23:12:18)

Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Sat 06-Jul-13 13:14:37
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Re: Delayed cab. We now know why


[re: garethr] [link to this post]
 
The FTTP ducting has been installed and we're now just waiting for installation.

So you are earmarked for FTTP ? Have you tried actually ordering said product ? Just 'cos the duct is in, doesn't mean that it will be installed automatically.

Standard User garethr
(regular) Sat 06-Jul-13 14:12:59
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Re: Delayed cab. We now know why


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
The FTTP ducting has been installed and we're now just waiting for installation.

So you are earmarked for FTTP ? Have you tried actually ordering said product ? Just 'cos the duct is in, doesn't mean that it will be installed automatically.


We already have ducts with TP and COAX (CATV). The duct I'm referring to is fibre subduct - it isn't for anything else. We also have multiple confirmations. It took a team of 2 engineers about 4 weeks to install. But, we don't yet have a 'GO LIVE' date. The Exchange is a C/P and the only FTTP is where I live. The two cabs I'm referring to are the last to go live on the Exchange. Oh apart from the warehouse that has its own FTTC cab - oh yes I am serious.

The cab I'm on is worse than the one with the electrical problem. It is also in hedge in someone's front garden and is cross connected to the other cab. So you can wire house on cab a to house on cab b... Why... Search me, but the interconnection has been used to attach a few people to a different E side cable which is slightly shorter. Moot of the E side pairs that aren't connected are marked as voice only.

We did think BT would FTTP the lot because its so ballsed. I guess they are now wishing they did too.

Yes the electrical infrastructure is bad too they are digging most of that up in the next few months.


Regards,



Gareth

Gareth
BT Internet 21CN ADSL 1.4Mbps/400Kbps
BT Infinity FTTP 166Mbps/20Mbps soon
Standard User garethr
(regular) Sat 06-Jul-13 14:17:21
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Re: Delayed cab. We now know why


[re: garethr] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
The FTTP ducting has been installed and we're now just waiting for installation.

So you are earmarked for FTTP ? Have you tried actually ordering said product ? Just 'cos the duct is in, doesn't mean that it will be installed automatically.


We already have ducts with TP and COAX (CATV). The duct I'm referring to is fibre subduct - it isn't for anything else. We also have multiple confirmations. It took a team of 2 engineers about 4 weeks to install. But, we don't yet have a 'GO LIVE' date. The Exchange is a C/P and the only FTTP is where I live. The two cabs I'm referring to are the last to go live on the Exchange. Oh apart from the warehouse that has its own FTTC cab - oh yes I am serious.

The cab I'm on is worse than the one with the electrical problem. It is also in a hedge in someone's front garden and is cross connected to the other cab. So you can wire house on cab a to house on cab b... Why... Search me, but the interconnection has been used to attach a few people to a different E side cable which is slightly shorter. Moot of the E side pairs that aren't connected are marked as voice only.

We did think BT would FTTP the lot because its so ballsed. I guess they are now wishing they did too. The cost model isn't the same because we already have the underground network. However, on the area covered by FTTC I believe there could be a few houses build in the last 10 years which don't have the same u/g ducting

Yes the electrical infrastructure is bad too they are digging most of that up in the next few months.


Regards,



Gareth

Gareth
BT Internet 21CN ADSL 1.4Mbps/400Kbps
BT Infinity FTTP 166Mbps/20Mbps soon

Edited by garethr (Sat 06-Jul-13 14:18:06)

Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Sun 07-Jul-13 09:12:06
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Re: Delayed cab. We now know why


[re: garethr] [link to this post]
 
Most of the E side pairs that aren't connected are marked as voice only.

Do you work for 'them' ? Unusual choice of phrase to use. wink

Standard User garethr
(regular) Thu 18-Jul-13 15:19:04
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Re: Delayed cab. We now know why


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

I though I update everyone. So we are on the second to last day of the street works request and team of civil engineers has turned up.

That sounds like good news. Trust me it isn't.

They basically don't know why they are there. They have been asked to dig a hole. Which they have done.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6FiTnq6X-uw/Uefz7...

However, they're supposed to be putting in chamber... Hmm. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that lot power cable?

More when I know more... This is getting out of hand.

Regards,

Gareth

Gareth
BT Internet 21CN ADSL 1.4Mbps/400Kbps
BT Infinity FTTP 166Mbps/20Mbps soon
Standard User panda
(committed) Thu 18-Jul-13 16:08:41
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Re: Delayed cab. We now know why


[re: garethr] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by garethr:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that lot power cable?
Looks like grey BT duct to me.

Eats shoots and leaves.
Standard User garethr
(regular) Thu 18-Jul-13 19:43:13
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Re: Delayed cab. We now know why


[re: panda] [link to this post]
 
Panic over. They found the BT/CATV duct and have dug a chamber sized hole around it.

This could take some time.....

Regards,


Gareth

Gareth
BT Internet 21CN ADSL 1.4Mbps/400Kbps
BT Infinity FTTP 166Mbps/20Mbps soon
Standard User panda
(committed) Thu 18-Jul-13 19:56:03
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Re: Delayed cab. We now know why


[re: garethr] [link to this post]
 
Telecoms duct is grey. CATV is green.

Eats shoots and leaves.
Standard User gazzyk1ns
(committed) Thu 18-Jul-13 22:02:51
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Re: Delayed cab. We now know why


[re: garethr] [link to this post]
 
Yeah, they'll put a BT footway box there, depending on the size of it they might want to put a fibre splitter/whatever other type of node there.

I can't quite tell because of the size of the image, but it looks like they've hacked into one of the ducts, doesn't it?
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Thu 18-Jul-13 22:51:34
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Re: Delayed cab. We now know why


[re: garethr] [link to this post]
 
Electrical ducting is red or black depending on voltage IIRC. Water blue, gas yellow.

Edited by Ignitionnet (Thu 18-Jul-13 22:52:19)

Standard User garethr
(regular) Fri 19-Jul-13 01:01:43
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Re: Delayed cab. We now know why


[re: panda] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by panda:
Telecoms duct is grey. CATV is green.


Are you sure?

The CATV duct AND telecoms duct are one in the same AFAIK. The copper phone lines and CATV enter properties from the same ducts and chambers. Each house has a small wall mounted chamber.

Sorry I should have said this is BT owned CATV not Virgin etc. As featured in the 2010 FTTP trail - just sadly not on that estate.

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/23916737/sn/1449614415/...

The above shows the hole now dug for the chamber with the now partially exposed CATV duct.

But, thats my understanding. I'd still like to know what the grey tubes are?

Regards,


Gareth

Gareth
BT Internet 21CN ADSL 1.4Mbps/400Kbps
BT Infinity FTTP 166Mbps/20Mbps soon
Standard User simon194
(committed) Fri 19-Jul-13 08:48:21
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Re: Delayed cab. We now know why


[re: panda] [link to this post]
 
CCTV is usually green ducting, isn't it?.
Standard User gazzyk1ns
(committed) Fri 19-Jul-13 23:10:46
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Re: Delayed cab. We now know why


[re: garethr] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by garethr:
Sorry I should have said this is BT owned CATV not Virgin etc. As featured in the 2010 FTTP trail - just sadly not on that estate.

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/23916737/sn/1449614415/...

The above shows the hole now dug for the chamber with the now partially exposed CATV duct.

But, thats my understanding. I'd still like to know what the grey tubes are?


Ordinarily the answer would be what everyone has said - they are BT ducts. The 2010 FTTP trial complicates things slightly, with regards to exactly what is contained in the BT ducts (i.e. how much is copper and how much is 2010 fibre). However, I don't think it complicates your situation regarding the install of your current FTTC cab - BT are putting a footway box there for ease of access. They may want to put a fibre splitter/aggregation node or whatever in there, but they may also just want ease of access to their ducts for the copper cross-connection of the FTTC cab to your PCP.

Edited by gazzyk1ns (Sat 20-Jul-13 00:01:34)

Standard User garethr
(regular) Sun 21-Jul-13 13:44:37
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Re: Delayed cab. We now know why


[re: gazzyk1ns] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by gazzyk1ns:
Ordinarily the answer would be what everyone has said - they are BT ducts. The 2010 FTTP trial complicates things slightly, with regards to exactly what is contained in the BT ducts (i.e. how much is copper and how much is 2010 fibre). However, I don't think it complicates your situation regarding the install of your current FTTC cab - BT are putting a footway box there for ease of access. They may want to put a fibre splitter/aggregation node or whatever in there, but they may also just want ease of access to their ducts for the copper cross-connection of the FTTC cab to your PCP.


The estate doesn't have any FTTP trail fibre. But, the design of the infrastructure is the same as areas which have and is non-standard. It has been done on some new estates but not on others. It is unlikely to be added to any new estates in the future as it was only necessary to support the CATV network.

Thanks for that. Yes I agree I think what people are saying is right. I saw the subcontractor cutting into the tubes to either replace the covering or provide access.

They have continued to work on the chamber over the weekend and it is now installed. I suspect OR will be along on Monday to do the necessary work as they can't leave the cables exposed for long.

The aggregation node is further down the road in a circa 2012 chamber and will also be supporting a number of FTTP PONS. Due to the CATV there are lots of chambers. FTTP is planned for 300/900 homes for installation in Aug/Sept this year.

The FTTC/FTTP installation for the estate has been pretty traumatic for OR we are on our 7th set of roadworks. The village next door had most of the payments dug up to get fibre into the area. The impressive thing is that the CATV doesn't come from the Exchange it comes into the estate from a different direction. BT could have run fibre via that route and potentially saved a lot of messing about.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for all the information. Very much appreciated.


Regards,


Gareth

Gareth
BT Internet 21CN ADSL 1.4Mbps/400Kbps
BT Infinity FTTP 166Mbps/20Mbps soon
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