TalkTalk Fibre Wireless Speed

Hi

This is my first post so I apologise if this is a stupid question

I have just had TalkTalk fibre installed. I get the full promised 38Mbs when plugged in with the ethernet cable but only get 18 - 19 Mbs when using wireless.

I have used inSSIDer to select the best channel for my home, have unplugged every electrical item that may be causing a problem and I don't get any improvement on my wireless speed.

I have tried both the TalkTalk supplied HG533 and the DSL3780, both provide the same speeds.

I have used various speed checkers and done the tests on my laptop, iphone5 and ipad2.

Do you think buying a better router will help or am I stuck with these mediocre speeds - I used to get 13Mbs wirelessly when I had ADSl so it seems a bit pointless spending the extra cash.

Thanks in advance for any help you provide

What wireless connection speeds do your devices report ? 802.11g at 54M can only shift about 20 Mbits/s of actual data.

You can use other routers with better wireless but if your device only supports 802.11g you're capped. I don't do iThings but I would think they are faster than 11g. Check settings of wireless type on router.

Hi Phil

My router is wireless 'n' and all of my devices are 'n' rated. My iphone gets speeds of 50Mbs at my Dads house (virgin) so I know it can register more.

Is this in the same room?

And with the way 2.4GHz channels overlap it can be difficult to get maximum throughput sometimes.

Hi MrSaffron

Speeds same if right next to the router or upstairs

Borrow a router that your kit is known to give better speeds on and see if that is any better in your home.

Alas the permutations possible and the interference from other people's networks (particularly if someone nearby is running 40 MHz wide channels) can give slow speeds.

I can't remember if insider can identify stuff like baby alarms and video senders, as they are known for problems in the 802.11b/g/n band

Ok thanks

borrowing my brother in laws old home hub 2 later - hopefully that will work with talktalk

I have my doubts, the username/password on the homehubs is usually locked to BT.

What you should be able to do though is set it up without any broadband and see how fast you can move files between two computers on the network.

By doing PC to PC tests you should be able to go a lot faster than the VDSL line speed.

what is the wireless link speed reported by the laptop ?

Oh thats a shame

Maybe I'll have to get one from argos (and return if it doesnt improve)

My brother has terrible wireless speeds, varies greatly around the house. There are hardly any other networks visible, one I think. What he eventually found was that if he put the wireless router in the lounge he instantly got better speed, put it back in his office and the performance plummeted.

Insidder does not show interference, you need their Wi-Fi dongle for that, and it's rather expensive.

In reply to a post by yarwell:

what is the wireless link speed reported by the laptop ?

Hi

Im not particularly computer minded but I think it's 300Mbs (though Im sure that was reading 130 Mbs earlier today)

If you were going to do that, looking on Argos I would be looking for something like this.
http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/143...

If it didn't help you could return it like you say. Argos are always good with returns.
As an alternative: http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-TL-WDR4900-Wireless-...

Amazon are always good with returns too...
For the iPhone to see 50Mbps I think it must have been connecting to a dual band router. As far as I can tell iPhone 5 connects at around 65Mbps on 2.4 Ghz and maxes out around 35Mbps real world speed on WiFi (that's what I found).
5Ghz used to give me full 70Mbps.

The routers above uses 2.4 and 5ghz so the 5ghz devices should see a boost (if connected close to the router). The Amazon one is slightly better.

Just bear in mind 5ghz has less range compared to 2.4ghz and your devices need to be 5ghz ready.

Hi

Thanks for those links - really useful

Yeah I connected to a Virgin Media SuperHub to get those speeds - dodnt have a clue what 5Ghz was all about though

I have used inSSIDer to select the best channel for my home, have unplugged every electrical item that may be causing a problem and I don't get any improvement on my wireless speed.

All inSSIDer sees is routers.

A lot of the times the routers are all using a channel, usually higher such as channel 11.

Often lower channels are jam packed with cordless doorbells, baby monitors, wireless home alarm systems, some (not most) cordless phones, microwave ovens, wireless TV transmitters, bluetooth keyboards, bluetooth mouses etc etc.

Sometimes the busiest channel on inSSIDer can be the best channel to use. Routers on the same channel doesn't cause to much of an issue, they can co-exist quite well. As wireless doorbells etc are not as regulated / digital, being on a channel these use can cause so many more issues (and the worst part, you have no idea they're there).

Commonly these devices use channels 1 - 6, but a lot of devices are using the higher channels too.

Also it's important to note channel overlap. So really only channels 1 6 and 11 are free. If somebody goes on channel 4 it messes up the whole spectrum.
Most devices default to channel 1 6 or 11. A device on channel 6 will overlap from channel 4 to channel 8. So if you see a device on channel 6 and choose channel 5 or channel 4, you're still getting interference from the device on 6. If you choose channel 2 or 3 you'll be interfering with a device on channel 1.

See here for the overlapping on channels http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2.4_GHz_Wi-Fi_chan...

Edited by ukhardy07 (Tue 30-Jul-13 14:41:26)

Depends really the new virgin hubs are 5ghz, the older ones are not.

It's a new one, installed 2 weeks ago )

Try using the HH2 as a WAP connected to the router.

it will vary, depending where you are in the house etc.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

If you were going to do that, looking on Argos I would be looking for something like this.
http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/143...

If it didn't help you could return it like you say. Argos are always good with returns.
As an alternative: http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-TL-WDR4900-Wireless-...

Amazon are always good with returns too...
For the iPhone to see 50Mbps I think it must have been connecting to a dual band router. As far as I can tell iPhone 5 connects at around 65Mbps on 2.4 Ghz and maxes out around 35Mbps real world speed on WiFi (that's what I found).
5Ghz used to give me full 70Mbps.

The routers above uses 2.4 and 5ghz so the 5ghz devices should see a boost (if connected close to the router). The Amazon one is slightly better.

Just bear in mind 5ghz has less range compared to 2.4ghz and your devices need to be 5ghz ready.

Im not very smart when it comes to router ... so could anyone please advise me to the difference between these 2 models:

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/143...
http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/139...

They both call themselves N600 but one is £20 cheaper...if they are both the same but one is a newer model is there any advantage to me getting the dearer one?

Thanks

This is the only one that will work on fibre. Argos had the other one listed under routers, not modem routers, when it's actually a modem router the other one.
http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/139...
The other one will not work on fibre, excuse my previous post as it was misleading (as is the argos site).

You can get it cheaper here
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008QBAXI4/ref=no...

The downside to this is it's only 2 antennas and the range & throughputs not as good as others.

If you can afford it, this is what I would get in your shoes currently
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00810P80S/ref=no...

or even this (probably an overkill)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00ATB28SM/ref=no...

As a massive overkill, as in does not need changing for years and years and years
http://www.apple.com/uk/airport-extreme/ or
http://www.amazon.co.uk/RT-AC66U-AC1750-Diamond-Dual...

That's my advice anyways. Amazon take returns extremely easy, easier than argos IMO.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Thu 01-Aug-13 09:55:21)

I dont mind spending a bit extra if it will definately improve things - but would rather not

Am i right in thinking that only certain devices (even n rated devices) actually see the 5Ghz band?

I know my iphone does, but dont really use it for streaming television - I use my PS3 (downstairs) for that or my wii (upstairs) and my kids both have a roku box for streaming netflix.

Also is the bandwidth number the higher the better for streaming or again is that really only better if your device reads 5Ghz.

Sorry for all the stupid questions

I dont mind spending a bit extra if it will definately improve things - but would rather not

Generally the more you spend, the better the 2.4ghz and 5ghz wifi. The cheapest one will probably do fine though.

Am i right in thinking that only certain devices (even n rated devices) actually see the 5Ghz band?

Yes, only certain devices do. You need to check this. I find that virtually all apple products within the past 3 years ago, most phones and a few windows laptops (depending).

I know my iphone does, but dont really use it for streaming television - I use my PS3 (downstairs) for that or my wii (upstairs) and my kids both have a roku box for streaming netflix.

The PS3 WiFi isn't great in my experience. No idea with the roku boxes.

You may not see necessarily better speeds at 2.4ghz. What you probably will see with a better router is that the range is better, the overall connection holds better, which ultimately means a better streaming experience. If your signals poor currently it can cause an unreliable experience.

Also is the bandwidth number the higher the better for streaming or again is that really only better if your device reads 5Ghz.

Streaming only really uses around 5Mbps max. So it's not using much at all. Streaming should work on virtually any router. If it's struggling wirelessly but not wired, then a better router is bound to help somewhat.

As a caution, 5 ghz doesn't travel nearly as far as 2.4ghz. So far away from the router 2.4ghz will be faster. Close to the router 5ghz will be significantly faster. So devices far away, put them on 2.4ghz. Ones nearby, put them on 5ghz.

Also the TalkTalk routers have pretty appalling wireless as far as I can tell. A friend of mine had standard wireless N asus router which was covering the whole house fine. When they switched over to TT (I was there changeover day) the new TT router didn't cover loads of the house (same channel etc). I ended up installing the old router for them.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Thu 01-Aug-13 10:34:51)

Do you have a PCWorld (yeah i know) near you? If so, the Linksys EA6500 is heavily discounted at pcworld at 'only' £120 - 802.11ac routers usually cost ~ £150 This is a dual band wifi b/gn/AC router so is future proof...however one of the best things about it is that due to its high powered amplifiers. you will get an excellent wifi signal on your existing b/g/n devices. Just buy it from pcworld and return it if it doesn't meet your expectations. One of the (only?) good things about pcworld is that they take back items without too much fuss.
http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/networking/networking/...

Mate, you've been really helpful - thanks so much

Think I will just stick to the cheaper one (which I can also get from Argos) and see what happens.

I'll be sure to report my findings soon

This is an amazing price for this....

Can't say I've ever had an easy return at pcworld in my entire life.
They sold me a laptop where a trackpad didn't work, it didn't even show in device manager. I returned to the store same day...
They insisted it was a drivers issue. To fix this they installed all 115 windows updates (not drivers).
Then they did a factory system recovery which took them 1 hour to figure out how, despite me telling them how to do it over and over, they told me I was wrong. They kept going to system restore in windows not tapping f10 at boot.
After 6 hours in store they made me return 5 days later as they 'inspected' the unit. I then finally got a refund after much shouting.

My camera was also faulty, the same store took it for 28 days to inspect it again. Then they refused a refund and offered a replacement only.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Thu 01-Aug-13 10:52:57)

Nice router. Nice price. Trouble is I absolutely detest DSG group - gutted it was Comet that went bust rather than these crooks!

Mind you at that price...

In reply to a post by gregholmes1974:

Nice router. Nice price. Trouble is I absolutely detest DSG group - gutted it was Comet that went bust rather than these crooks!

Mind you at that price...

I feel just as strongly as you regarding DSG. Oh they also mis-sold whatever happens to me, telling me batteries were covered (I explicitly asked during sign up). You can imagine my anger when I'm told 'battery is not covered' when I went to claim for the battery.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Thu 01-Aug-13 11:00:14)

Yeah i know what you mean about pcworld/dsg group. I usually stay away from them since their prices are exorbitant, however from time to time they do have some cracking deals like the Linksys EA6500. Anyway good luck to the OP, i find Argos pretty good and i'm sure he'll be fine should he need to return the router.

if you're going dual band, ie 2.4ghz and 5ghz, make sure it's concurrent, which means you can use both frequencies at the same time. Many will only do one or the other.

With regard to PC World, I hate them also, but they had an offer on a dual band concurrent router a few weeks back for £25, which was a bargain.

Have order the chesper of the 2 TP Link ones: http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Pro...

Its just a test really to see if my wifi improves at all - if it does I'll either take it back as faulty or take it back and get the better one

Deleted

Edited by kasg (Thu 01-Aug-13 15:36:02)

My apologies. That was supposed to read 'if it doesnt improve...'

In reply to a post by gregholmes1974:

My apologies. That was supposed to read 'if it doesnt improve...'

That makes more sense! I deleted my original post because I think I'd got the wrong end of the stick with the rest of it.

Edited by kasg (Thu 01-Aug-13 15:41:38)

OK

So I plugged the new router in and turned on...it registered straight away - but sadly I had no improvement in speed at all

Tried looking into the settings and noticed that it was connecting using dynamic IP and i'm fairly sure most ISPs use pppoe.

This is where it gets weird as TalkTalk dont use name and password so when I remove name and password and just leave it blank the router wont connect.

So I just left it as Dynamic IP, and left my wireless speeds at 20 - 21.

Sadly this morning my wifi speed had dropped to below 1Mbs

I have a feeling my openreach modem could be faulty as when connected with an ethernet cable I am getting speeds ranging from 21Mbs to 40 Mbs - though have never seen wireless speeds that fast (unless using talktalks own speed tester )

Im going to spend the weekend playing but if I see no improvement I think im going to have to demand they put me back onto ADSL

What have wireless speeds got to do with the Openreach modem?

you seem quite confused. If you can download a large file like 1 Gigabyte and time it using a wire and get good speeds then your openreach modem and the FTTC are doing their bit.

If wireless speed is poor despite have a good wireless signal (ie a lot more than 54M reported as the wireless link speed) then you may need to be on a different channel to get away from an interference or congestion issue.

You could plug a wireless access point into the ethernet port of the router as an experiment to see if that gives better speed than the wireless built into the router (which I would turn off for the experiment).

TT may not use username and password on LLU lines but I don't know if that holds up on their Fibre service - anyone ?

In reply to a post by kasg:

What have wireless speeds got to do with the Openreach modem?

Nothing.

I was suggesting that if my openreach modem only gives speeds of 21 then the wireless simply cannot go faster

In reply to a post by yarwell:

you seem quite confused. If you can download a large file like 1 Gigabyte and time it using a wire and get good speeds then your openreach modem and the FTTC are doing their bit.

If wireless speed is poor despite have a good wireless signal (ie a lot more than 54M reported as the wireless link speed) then you may need to be on a different channel to get away from an interference or congestion issue.

You could plug a wireless access point into the ethernet port of the router as an experiment to see if that gives better speed than the wireless built into the router (which I would turn off for the experiment).

TT may not use username and password on LLU lines but I don't know if that holds up on their Fibre service - anyone ?

Sorry if I seem confused...I thought that if I pay extra for fibre and am estimated speeds of 38, I might be able to get speeds of more than 20!

I have tried every available channel - none make it faster, lots make it slower.

But you said "21Mbs to 40 Mbs " when using a wire, and the Openreach modem has no idea of what the router is using to connect people with.

Have you taken the computers to another location and shown them getting speeds well in excess of 21 Mbps, or done LAN to LAN speed testing that would work even if you switched the Openreach modem off.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

But you said "21Mbs to 40 Mbs " when using a wire, and the Openreach modem has no idea of what the router is using to connect people with.

Have you taken the computers to another location and shown them getting speeds well in excess of 21 Mbps, or done LAN to LAN speed testing that would work even if you switched the Openreach modem off.

What I mean by this is if I disconnect everything from the modem, and just plug in my laptop and run speed tests - shouldnt the speed be constant - not have such huge variants?

Sorry if I seem confused...I thought that if I pay extra for fibre and am estimated speeds of 38, I might be able to get speeds of more than 20!

you are, as the wired test proves. You just have a local wireless problem.

it's a contended service, was your TT ADSL perfectly consistent ?

Only would be totally consistent if you were the only person online.

You need to actually try wired into the router i.e.
openreach modem ---- talktalk router ---- computer

If that gives the same as computer on its own, then the talktalk router is ok just maybe an issue with wireless.

In reply to a post by gregholmes1974:

Sorry if I seem confused...I thought that if I pay extra for fibre and am estimated speeds of 38, I might be able to get speeds of more than 20!

You're with one of the cheapest providers, have you tried at different times of day, and days of the week - as you might find that in the evenings (e.g. Friday) the system is heavily used so slows down - and at 9:30am on a Monday its lightning fast.

The speed does vary - but nothing to be concerned about.

My next step is to buy a 10 metre cat5 and move my router well away from where it currently is - hopefully that will improve things.

I have just had the same problems today, 37mb wired and 21mb wireless on Sky. I tried updating drivers and some other things that were suggested. In frustration I wired my laptop to the router, uninstalled the wireless drivers and restarted. On restart, new drivers were installed and I now have 36mb on the laptop . Only on this one though as the others only have "G" compatible network cards.

I've very recently taken up Talktalk's offer of a free Huawei HG330, clearly they are aiming at trying to push the fibre installations.
But in fact my old Speedtouch 585 syncs faster on ADSL than the Huawei does by 1Mbps. So I'm just using the HG330 as a wirelesss and ethernet hub. However, the addition of 802.11N has made a lot of difference to my local wifi speeds: the old Speedtouch doesn't of course support it. All my devices see it, and have better range. Over most of the house I'm getting a 135Mbps link, and even in places where B/G was very dubious on tablets, I get 39Mbps.

Edited by deleted (Sun 04-Aug-13 16:33:50)