FTTP Availability Data BORKED

Hi,

I'm involved in a local campaign group for broadband. I live in Milton Keynes where certain lucky people managed to get FTTP as part of technology trial in 2010.

The FTTP network was (allegedly) fully deployed in those areas. However, as fibre broadband demand increases (due to providers marketing services etc) we are coming across a increasing number of people in FTTP areas which can't actually order the service.

I have previously had meetings with Bill Murphy (BT Openreach Programme Director for NGA) and directly asked if the data could be inaccurate and be assured that wasn't possible.

So we now a situation where houses in some areas (it appears at random) don't have FTTP capability. Remember, FTTP isn't in addition to FTTC so if you can't order FTTP you are stuck. The areas I'm talking about also have poor ADSL connectivity typically 1.5Mbps > 256Kbps.

This problem also has an interesting impact on BDUK. We don't yet have final coverage maps but the information I'm managed to obtain suggest we have white areas (need government cash) which are (AFAIK) fully FTTP enabled. Which doesn't makes much sense. According to BDUK data I've seen we even have 6 houses in the middle of a housing estate that have been enabled for FTTP and are part of the commercial footprint but the 400 houses around them need government intervention even though most can order FTTP - some can't but I don't known the extent of the problem and suspect its caused by inaccurate data rather than the availability of infrastructure.

So, has anyone seen similar or aware of any funnies with the BT database which would cause this issue (lack of active phone line/LLU etc)?

All a bit strange.

Regards,


Gareth

FTTC can hit similar demand humps, when a cabinet fills up.

The situation may be that the a new PON needs setting up, or a difficult duct was skipped in the original roll-outs. Without access to the pavement chambers to verify it is hard to say for sure.

In many areas the FTTP roll-out just stopped, so there can be ones who were planned and then got dropped from the commercial roll-out once the size of FTTP use was scaled back.

If an accurate map of which properties can and cannot order in the area where FTTP is available was compiled the pattern might become apparent, particularly if you have some clue as to where the manifolds and splitters are located.

One issue which causes problems is the need for permissions to run fibre through terraces of houses, which I know there are in Milton Keynes

Hi,

The areas which are enabled for FTTP do not generally have large numbers of terrace houses. Even if they did the areas generally have existing CATV wall mounted chambers on each house so this isn't an issue. However, that isn't something I was aware of.

Someone has pointed out to me that BT didn't do any civil engineering as part of the trial and the issues could be caused by blocked ducts which haven't been sorted out. However, one of the area concerned had some SERIOUS issues with subsidence which BT did sort out and even delayed some FTTP Install prior to fixing the problem. If they'd not sorted it the PSTN and CATV would likely have been impacted anyway.

Still no closer to understanding the issue.

Regards,

Gareth

I live at the end of a small street (6 houses in total) in Milton Keynes. Myself and the neighbour opposite me have FTTP. A new family have just moved into the house next to me and cannot order FTTP.

There are 3 underground chambers in the street, each serving two houses (one either side of the road). The chambers house the old CATV, BT copper cable and fibre tubing. The fibre tubing has been run to the last chamber in the street where it terminates. There are two splitter nodes/dp points around 100m away where the fibre is blown from to the end users property in my street.

A new neighbour has recently moved in and been told fibre is not available in the area. A check on the BT database shows only ADSL services available for him and the other 3 houses in our street that do not have FTTP at present.

I know these properties should be able to receive FTTP. But for some reason, the BT database is saying they cannot receive it. There is no logical explanation - it is not due to capacity as the database would still come back as FTTP available. This pattern is consistent with a lot of properties in my village.

I should add...

FTTP has been available in my street for several years. My neighbour has been trialling it from pretty much the outset with BT Retail.

I had the service installed last Nov (ish) and I checked the other houses on my street with the BT Checker. They all came back as FTTP enabled. Now, they are showing ADSL only.

The BT PCP spreadsheet listing postcodes shows 83.33% of households with our postcode (street) as being part of the completed phase for FTTP. The 16.6% is me because I have two lines with one going to a different exchange that is not FTTP enabled (was put in during the early stages of ADSL by BT to try and get a better broadband performance to a closer exchange - this was done after pestering BT Planning for weeks).

Hi,

Are you on Middleton? Can you look at joining MKBAG. www.mkbag.org

I think you've got another line or pair swap (which will be better - cleaner) but you would not have got a connection to a different Exchange.

The other Exchange near you is Woburn Sands and it has taken BT nearly a year to get a duct from the Exchange to Kingston so I really doubt you'd get a connection up in Middleton.

Your comment suggesting people in your area could order but now can't is very interesting.

Regards,


Gareth

Hi Gareth

We've spoken already - I am in Willen

The other line I have runs to Newport Pagnell, as opposed to Bradwell Abbey. BT never normally do this, but I was persistent in getting it in to increase our broadband speeds. They increased around 4-5x at the time.

Regards

Andy

In cases where FTTC cabinets have become full, people have in the past reported the FTTC vanishing from the checker, so it might be a capacity issue still.

In short there are two capacities of manifold (12 the more common) and 8 fibre lines, so it may be the one that was installed is full, and is now waiting on Openreach adding another.

Without setting what there is in the pavement chambers everything is guesswork really. Other areas are starting to show more work on the FTTP side, so they might revisit.

It is even possible that an earlier version of hardware was used with more limited capacity, the problem of being in the early part of the roll-out. If chasing Bill Murphy then probably the best avenue to keep pestering.

I am convinced it has nothing to do with capacity, because the next street up from us (where the dp/splitter node are located for us) is still taking orders for people that do not already have FTTP.

The fibre infrastructure for our street can accommodate all 6 houses - the engineer told me this when doing the install. He showed me stage by stage during the install process so I saw how they splice/where the splicing points are located etc. All quite interesting really.

If BTO are still taking FTTP orders for some houses in a street but telling other houses next door that fibre is not available in the area, then something must be wrong with the database. Either way, I have raised it with PN and they should hopefully get an answer from BTO as to what is going on.

If just 6 houses then one manifold should be sufficient (remember when you say street we have no idea if you mean 4 houses or 200).

It's quite easy to prove whether it is/is not a capacity issue and BTO are presently not taking orders.

You can use the BT Checker with a number/postcode to see if the property can receive FTTP. If you then run the BT Wholesale Speed Tester with the same number/postcode on the Further Diagnostics section, this will tell you whether there is a service already provided at the address.

I've already tried one street - three properties next to each other. The first has FTTP already (80/20). The second does not have FTTP and can only place an order for ADSL. The third does not have FTTP but can place an order for FTTP.

Hopefully we can get some clarification from BTO as to the reason behind people being unable to upgrade to fibre. Certainly with the old BT checker, it was showing FTTP available at a lot more properties than it is now.

Hi,

For **** sake. Cheers for the PM.. Yes OK.. I stand corrected. You have got a line on SMNP and FTTP on SMBA. That's bonkers.

Thats probably only possible because of the older / industrial buildings in the area which have been there for a number of years. I would guess they have lines from both Exchanges in one of the PCP cabinets / chambers.

So, from what I can workout and the data you've post to MKBAG the following looks suspicious. Also the BDUK data is looking borked also.

- Monkston (Western portion of West Monkston). FTTP available to order for most but not all. FTTP being provided to a large number of properties. BDUK designation WHITE

- Kents Hill. FTTP available to order. FTTP being provided. BDUK designation GREY

- Walnut Tree FTTP available to order to most but not all. FTTP being provided to a number of properties in 99% of roads. BDUK designation GREY in parts. White in others. FTTP is available in white areas.

- Willen. FTTP available to order to most properties but not all. FTTP being provided on most roads.BDUK designation GREY.

Connection? They are all FTTP trial areas.

BDUK is for rural broadband... HA HA HA HA.....

Regards,


Gareth

In reply to a post by garethr:

BDUK is for rural broadband... HA HA HA HA.....

It's an extremely loose definition of rural broadband. You'll find BDUK funded cabinets in cities infilling where BT didn't consider them viable.

My postcode is white according to the MK BDUK data here: http://bbpc.atkinsgeospatial.com/Default.htm

Something seems wrong - my neighbour has had FTTP for over 3 years.

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

Something seems wrong - my neighbour has had FTTP for over 3 years.

I'm very jealous of your neighbour indeed.

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

Something seems wrong - my neighbour has had FTTP for over 3 years.

Not quite the same situation as yours, but a few months ago when I was tracking down how far FTTP had spread through the town where I live, I came across this pair of semi-detached houses where the house on the left can get FTTP but the one on the right can only have FTTC.

Google Streetview picture

They are both fed via overhead drop-wires from separate poles which are connected to different cabinets.

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

I'm very jealous of your neighbour indeed.

Many people would be!

They were one of the first people in the country to get FTTP. They were trialling the 330/30 for virtually nothing, but are now back to the basic FTTP package of 40/10 as all the trials are finished.

In reply to a post by Rastus:

Not quite the same situation as yours, but a few months ago when I was tracking down how far FTTP had spread through the town where I live, I came across this pair of semi-detached houses where the house on the left can get FTTP but the one on the right can only have FTTC.

They are both fed via overhead drop-wires from separate poles which are connected to different cabinets.

That must be frustrating! That postcode is served by 3 cabinets - 2 of which are FTTP. If you live in that postcode, you have a 60% of being able to only get FTTC.

It's interesting looking at BT's data for my area (Cabinet P44 in Milton Keynes), there should be 100% FTTP availability. But it looks like less than 40% based on the searches I have done so far. BTO need to clarify what the issue is for our/other areas in MK.

As Gareth has already pointed out in the BDUK data shows Willen as designation grey. In theory, everyone should have access to superfast broadband but they don't. There are also anomalies like my street being designated white despite already having FTTP.

It's not the FTTP that makes me jealous. I'm jealous of anyone who has better than I do, which is 99% of the UK

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3031469961

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

It's not the FTTP that makes me jealous. I'm jealous of anyone who has better than I do, which is 99% of the UK

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3031469961

I had a reminder of just how slow a connection like that is today for about 2 hours we had speeds like this, very strange. Interleaving kicked in and download speeds return to near normal, with no change on upload which remained normal all the time.

Hi,

Just to make people aware.

We've been advised by a friendly ISP that they believe the problem is due to a lack of backhaul capacity within the Exchange SMBA. That's slightly hilarious considering SMBA is a BT UK core node.

The suggestion from the ISP is that BT have removed addresses to ensure end users can't order.

They reckon the issue should be resolved in the next few weeks. It appears to impact a significant number of properties in the trial area.

Regards,

Gareth