What ISP for fiber?

Well after I spent a bit of time going through all ISP's and deciding on which one to migrate to but remain on the BE network, I just found out that it will cease to exist come March.
On the off chance I noticed my exchange has gone from not in any roll out plans to under evaluation which is a step forward.

Do I let my contract with BE go to Sky and upgrade to their fiber when it goes live?
Or migrate to someone like BT or Plusnet etc and again upgrade to Fiber when it goes live?

Who is regarded as a good fiber provider in the UK? I really don't mind about price as I would rather pay extra for a product that has good support, Stable speeds etc.

Any thoughts or recommendations?

For FTTC then in general I don't think you will have anything to worry about with BT, Sky or Plusnet of the biggies.

Zen and IDNet have a high reputation. I went from O2 LLU to IDNet when I wanted FTTC, and after a year moved to Plusnet. I have no regrets.

Of the resellers we see here, I suggest (alphabetically) Aquiss; vivaciti and xilo/uno.

I don't recall any ongoing general speed issues on FTTC at any of those. Plusnet had some hiccups in evening latency for a few months after going true unlimited but that appears to be sorted.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

For FTTC then in general I don't think you will have anything to worry about with BT, Sky or Plusnet of the biggies.

Zen and IDNet have a high reputation. I went from O2 LLU to IDNet when I wanted FTTC, and after a year moved to Plusnet. I have no regrets.

Of the resellers we see here, I suggest (alphabetically) Aquiss; vivaciti and xilo/uno.

I don't recall any ongoing general speed issues on FTTC at any of those. Plusnet had some hiccups in evening latency for a few months after going true unlimited but that appears to be sorted.

Seeing as everything is either BT 21CN, Sky, TT or AOL LLU then I'm sort of leaning towards Sky LLU at present and let my BE contract auto switch to them during the takeover. That way I'm not locked into a 12 month contract. If it is junk then I can leave.

I just hope my cabinet goes live sooner rather than later for fiber.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I don't recall any ongoing general speed issues on FTTC at any of those. Plusnet had some hiccups in evening latency for a few months after going true unlimited but that appears to be sorted.

IDNet is currently having some evening issues as well. Been ongoing a week and BT apparently fluffed an order so will likely continue a few days yet. To be fair it's the first time we've had an issue like that in the 18 months I've been with them but it's always a bit irritating if an ISP fails to anticipate demand.

This is what has always put me off going back onto BT's equipment. Always had issues around our area.
Anyone got a rough idea how long it takes from fibre roll out to go from under evaluation to accepting orders? I thought I read it can take up to 15 months or something similar?

One thing which you may want to consider is that when an exchange is enabled, BT based FTTC ISP's are pretty much ready to go whereas Talktalk and Sky will have to order a special cable to connect FTTC to their own network. It may mean waiting a bit longer. Not a big consideration but one which can be annoying in the short term.

Thanks
Tim

NOTE: BT Wholesale still has to order the special cable so BT Infinity, PlusNet, IDNet and others can provide service, just that BT Wholesale seems to move faster to place the order

In reply to a post by michty_me:

This is what has always put me off going back onto BT's equipment. Always had issues around our area.

The issue is with one of their transit or peering links rather than at the customer end. It could impact any ISP that buys capacity off BT (which is possibly all of them at some point).

Edited by Andrue (Fri 08-Nov-13 11:19:52)

Isn't pretty much EVERY exchange "under evaluation" that hasn't got fibre already?, due to the BDUK funding?.

Thanks for the information people. I think for the time being I'll stick with Sky LLU or wait for that to swap over from BE and re-visit this thread once the cabinets go live. My Sky contract will be a rolling contract so should be able to leave pretty sharp if it is poor.

In reply to a post by IranianGiraffe:

Isn't pretty much EVERY exchange "under evaluation" that hasn't got fibre already?, due to the BDUK funding?.

That I am not sure of. ALl I know is that last month I checked it stated not in any roll out plans for my exchange. It could well be right with what you are saying then. I think I should just keep my eyes peeled for new cabinets going in.

Depends on the County, Under Evaluation still means they can say no, or might only do one or two cabs on the exchange rather than the full ten or so

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Depends on the County, Under Evaluation still means they can say no, or might only do one or two cabs on the exchange rather than the full ten or so

Thats true I guess. I done a check on my folks house and mine (Same town but opposite ends) It appears my cabinet is #1 and theirs was #24. Didnt realise there were so many.

There can be over hundred per exchange, just have look at the map in my signature for our four local exchanges.

Edited by R0NSKI (Fri 08-Nov-13 13:31:35)

In reply to a post by Andrue:

In reply to a post by michty_me:

This is what has always put me off going back onto BT's equipment. Always had issues around our area.

The issue is with one of their transit or peering links rather than at the customer end. It could impact any ISP that buys capacity off BT (which is possibly all of them at some point).

Apparently BT are saying they have finally completed the work as of this afternoon. So hopefully that's the end of that and we're back to normal at IDNet.

I didn't realise so many would be put in. I'm new to all this fibre talk. So I gather people further from the exchange will get much better speeds if a fibre cabinet is close by.
For example, my BE connection is synched at full 24mb due to living very close to the exchange. My patents however can get only 3mb as they are a fair distance away.

I'll be going around looking out for cabinets. I won't get my hopes up just yet though.

I'll look into idnet too as a possible ISP switch. Thanks.

You can find which cabinet you are connected to using this www.dslchecker.bt.com

If you are that close to the exchange, it is unlike you have a Cab so will not get FTTC. BDUK are unlikely to subsidise lines that already get speeds that high as they are trying to improve the ones at the slow end. (0.5 to 6Mb)

In reply to a post by kitcat:

If you are that close to the exchange, it is unlike you have a Cab so will not get FTTC. BDUK are unlikely to subsidise lines that already get speeds that high as they are trying to improve the ones at the slow end. (0.5 to 6Mb)

I really hope that isn't the case but it is understandable. It will certainly benefit the town next to us as we have one exchange between two towns. I believe the closest person in the next town can get 0.5mb at a push.
Just done some checks using the DSL checker above (thanks) it states your number on Aberdeen kings wells exchange is connected through cabinet #1. Tested my parents again and it states there's is connected through cab #24.

You have a chance then as at least you are not on an exchange only line. As long as they do the cab you can order.

Well I guess time will tell. I'll need to update later on as I'll more than likely need another ISP sooner or later.

Who is your line rental with? There could be issues with that if you leave after being moved over from Be.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Who is your line rental with? There could be issues with that if you leave after being moved over from Be.

That is a good point actually. To have Sky LLU do you not need to take the phone package too now? My line is with BT.

How reliable is the likes of ISPreview website for provider reviews?

Edited by deleted (Sat 09-Nov-13 01:15:33)

AIUI in your position you can keep your BT line when you are moved from Be, or you can also move your phone line. I suggest you have a browse through the Be forum on this site and see what others have said, as I wouldn't be surprised if moving the line put you onto a 12-month term for line and broadband.

However, the reason I asked the q is I also believe that if you later upgrade to Sky FTTC then you would have to move your line to them, and a long minimum term. Which can be a bit messy later if you ever want to leave.

Don't take what I say as gospel, as O2 and Be moves to Sky seem to be a bit different and I might be getting mixed up. What I'm really saying is you need to check this side of it out .

From what I have read in over the weeks is that if I leave my broadband to transfer itself then I am not locked into a long term contract. However, If I want to migrate to Sky now then it is effectively starting a new contract and I will be locked in.
I am still really tempted to go with Aquiss packages as I have heard of good things with them. At least I can get my fibre there too if it ever goes live.
I've also looked into IDNet and Zen. Not too keen on Xilo as many reviews I read state that support is often poor due to not being able to get through. Vivaciti was on my list but there was something about them that I wasn't too keen on when speaking to them.

All I want in an ISP is low latency, stable speeds throughout the day and night, a good FUP. (I wouldn't consider myself as a high user but sometimes do the occasional downloads so don't want slow downs/caps)

IMO sky is probably one of the best networks.

In reply to a post by michty_me:

Not too keen on Xilo as many reviews I read state that support is often poor due to not being able to get through.

It's a shame that this perception seems to be taking hold as I have found the ticket response to be first class. I usually get well thought out replies within the hour, sometimes minutes and not just between 9 and 5.

I've been with ISP's where it is easy to get through to support on the phone but you end up talking to people who haven't got a clue.

So..if you are OK with communicating with a ticket system I wouldn't rule them out that quickly.

Can't comment on the phone support but I assume this is where the negative comments are coming from?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Don't take what I say as gospel, as O2 and Be moves to Sky seem to be a bit different and I might be getting mixed up. What I'm really saying is you need to check this side of it out .

You can move early, on discounted pricing but onto the standard products, with whatever minimum term that they agree. OR the BE/O2 customer can wait until they get their "letter" which will be by Spring 2014. BE users will be last due to static IP. The letter is the stop point, you either move to Sky, or get MAC code to go elsewhere - moving to sky at the "letter" stage will apparently not set any minimum term contract.

That is how I understand the info posted last week in the private BE member forum.

I'm still really quite hesitant when it comes to Sky due to the fact that my parents, other family members and friends have all had problems with slow downs etc. My parents connection was terrible and they spent months trying to get it reasonable. It only became usable once threatening to go to BT.

As for Xilo, I was under the impression all support was like that and not just the phones. If that is the case then I will re-consider them.

jchamier, That is what I took from the forums too. Move early for a discount price but be locked into a new contract or wait until the final letter and transfer then and not be locked in to a contract.

As I said I am still a bit tempted to leave the current contract turning over and give it a try, If it is balls then easily jump ship due to no long term contract.

Where these others on Sky LLU, or Sky Connect? Sky Connect, which is where there is no Sky LLU, has a very bad reputation.

Also, which Sky product(s) were they on? Before Sky went true unlimited there was traffic management, and unless they upgraded I expect they would still experience that.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Where these others on Sky LLU, or Sky Connect? Sky Connect, which is where there is no Sky LLU, has a very bad reputation.

Also, which Sky product(s) were they on? Before Sky went true unlimited there was traffic management, and unless they upgraded I expect they would still experience that.

They are all on sky LLU. High ping times/lag, couldn't watch streaming videos etc. They have said it has improved a little after months of complaining and being sent a new router two months ago. Still can't stream videos too well though.

There are two options when it comes to the Sky takeover. Either you wait to be migrated on a rolling contract basis, or you attempt to negotiate a better deal which will include a new minimum contract period. The trade-off for migrating to Sky on a rolling contract basis is that you will likely give up your best discount opportunity.

This reduces the choice to one based on whether you want to stay with Sky or not. If you want to stay with Sky, negotiate now - you can always reject the offer and migrate on a rolling basis. If you are not prepared to commit to Sky but have no desire to leave now, you may as well wait to be migrated to the Sky network, with your options open to bail out for another ISP.


As your current line rental is with BT, you can use the BT Wholesale availability checker (mentioned earlier in the thread by BatBoy), which should show the cabinet number if you are connected via a cabinet, also it may show future availability information and projected speeds for FTTC. Knowing whether you're likely to be sticking with ADSL for the next 12-18 months or whether FTTC is likely to be coming soon will be useful in deciding on a strategy.


There are many good ISPs in the 'pay a bit more for a better grade of service' bracket. I have been with Zen for the past ten years - they now have unlimited fibre packages on a modest price uplift from the mainstream consumer ISPs, and I expect them to launch unlimited ADSL packages in the next few months. The only significant omission in their service is the lack of native IPv6, which has supposedly been under development for some time but there is still no sign of a launch.

You should also bear in mind that there are plenty of users satisfied with the mainstream consumer ISPs. It may well be that the likes of PlusNet offer all you need at a lower price than Zen or IDnet.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Also, which Sky product(s) were they on? Before Sky went true unlimited there was traffic management, and unless they upgraded I expect they would still experience that.

Did you meant o search/replace Sky with O2 there perhaps?

As Sky LLU broadband has *always* been free of traffic management, since launch in 2008. Connect is subject to congestion problems, but I don't think any of that is deliberate traffic management.

How were their FUPs enforced?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

How were their FUPs enforced?

Can you point me at any FUPs that Sky have published since launch? Apart from Connect.

My parents had Sky from launch (something like 2008) until 2010 when my Dad's business needed static IP and he moved to BE. He never had any limit information.

Connect I guess was different, I know one person who has been on Sky Connect, and he was told he had a 40 GB a month usage limit. They never provided any information on how much you'd used in a month - so without a meter, any enforcement is arbitrary. I always assumed they would contact a frequent over user.

BE tried to introduce a usage limited service (BE basic) a few years ago, they tried for 6 months, and abandoned the project. Its obviously quite hard / costly, to retro fit usage based charging to a network designed for unlimited use.

Edited by jchamier (Sat 09-Nov-13 21:47:30)

In reply to a post by David_W:

There are two options when it comes to the Sky takeover. Either you wait to be migrated on a rolling contract basis, or you attempt to negotiate a better deal which will include a new minimum contract period. The trade-off for migrating to Sky on a rolling contract basis is that you will likely give up your best discount opportunity.

This reduces the choice to one based on whether you want to stay with Sky or not. If you want to stay with Sky, negotiate now - you can always reject the offer and migrate on a rolling basis. If you are not prepared to commit to Sky but have no desire to leave now, you may as well wait to be migrated to the Sky network, with your options open to bail out for another ISP.


As your current line rental is with BT, you can use the BT Wholesale availability checker (mentioned earlier in the thread by BatBoy), which should show the cabinet number if you are connected via a cabinet, also it may show future availability information and projected speeds for FTTC. Knowing whether you're likely to be sticking with ADSL for the next 12-18 months or whether FTTC is likely to be coming soon will be useful in deciding on a strategy.

There are many good ISPs in the 'pay a bit more for a better grade of service' bracket. I have been with Zen for the past ten years - they now have unlimited fibre packages on a modest price uplift from the mainstream consumer ISPs, and I expect them to launch unlimited ADSL packages in the next few months. The only significant omission in their service is the lack of native IPv6, which has supposedly been under development for some time but there is still no sign of a launch.

You should also bear in mind that there are plenty of users satisfied with the mainstream consumer ISPs. It may well be that the likes of PlusNet offer all you need at a lower price than Zen or IDnet.

I think I would rather pay the full price Sky product and have the choice of leaving when it suits me rather than locking myself into a long contract. That is why I was just going to leave it to migrate over itself if I wasn't tempted by another ISP by then.

As you mentioned, I would rather pay extra to ensure I got the service, supply and support that you are paying for.

I have used the availability checker and although it shows what cabinet I am connected to it shows no information about FTTC speeds or dates so I can only assume it will be a long way off IF it is actually going to be hooked up.

The ISP's I have looked into so far have been Vivaciti, Aquiss, Xilo, Zen and IDNet. These would be my preffered options if I were to migrate away from BE/Sky.

I'm back looking for a fibre ISP now.
It appears my cabinet IS being upgraded even though I already sync at the 24mb limit with BE. The fibre PCP is in place and expected live dates are in approx 2 months so looking into a fibre provider now.

I have been looking at either Zen or IDNet. Any other recommendations?

See my original reply in this thread .

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 20-Mar-14 11:51:21)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

See my original reply in this thread .

Just thought I should check incase anything had changed since this was last visited. Sounds good to me.
On another note, I recall reading that they usually started taking orders once a certain percentage of cabs had been done. Is this correct?

I think the cabinet percentage idea was debunked a while ago. But the exchange being enabled doesn't mean your cabinet is, even if its FTTC partner is physically present.

You need to keep checking here.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I think the cabinet percentage idea was debunked a while ago. But the exchange being enabled doesn't mean your cabinet is, even if its FTTC partner is physically present.

You need to keep checking here.

Thank you Roberto!
I'll be sure to do that. I've signed up to BT Infinity email notifications too for when that becomes live it should notify me pretty quick or get pestered by phone.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I think the cabinet percentage idea was debunked a while ago. But the exchange being enabled doesn't mean your cabinet is, even if its FTTC partner is physically present.

You need to keep checking here.

I went on the BT website you listed and now thankfully I can order Fibre. Happy days as Sky are pants!!

Taken from the link you sent:

FTTC Range A (Clean) 80 66.8 20 19.9 -- Available
FTTC Range B (Impacted) 79.5 52.1 20 17.7 -- Available

In reply to a post by michty_me:

Who is regarded as a good fiber provider in the UK? I really don't mind about price as I would rather pay extra for a product that has good support, Stable speeds etc.

Any thoughts or recommendations?

I'm considering Vivaciti myself when I get fibre in the next few months.

I've had an ultra-reliable LLU connection from them over the last 2 years and their customer support has been really good, as well.

http://vivaciti.net/packages/fibre-internet/fibre-br...

Edited by paul_liverpoolfc (Thu 15-May-14 21:09:08)

In reply to a post by paul_liverpoolfc:

I'm considering Vivaciti myself when I get fibre in the next few months.

I've had an ultra-reliable LLU connection from them over the last 2 years and their customer support has been really good, as well.

http://vivaciti.net/packages/fibre-internet/fibre-br...

I never actually checked on them for fibre to be honest. I think I'm pretty much settled on Zen at this moment in time. Just awaiting my MAC from Sky. I'll go check Vicaciti though and look at their fibre options.

As the product is going to be very similar throughout the companies, I guess it is all down to customer support in the end and price?

The allowances are likely to be different between companies.

Post deleted by MrSaffron

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The allowances are likely to be different between companies.

They are indeed. Some are better than others. Some are pitiful.

Deleted due to naughty word

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Deleted due to naughty word

Apologies.