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Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Tue 19-Nov-13 20:04:21
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When will we get better internet?


[link to this post]
 
I live on a farm about 5km from our exchange. This meaning our internet is not great. We live about 1km as the crow flies from a village that have been upgraded and that's where our cabinet is. They have Fibre and i know of a friend receiving a 74mb/s download and 17mb/s upload... We are stuck with 2.5mb/s on a bad day and at maximum 3.5mb/s on a good day. The internet is really bad for youtube and gaming witch is what i mostly use it for and wondered if BT will splash it millions that the government gave them to help the more rural places? Thanks in advance.

Line attenuation is 54db and i have a Billion 7800n.

Edited by TomPoolHD (Tue 19-Nov-13 20:05:08)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 19-Nov-13 20:11:00
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
If your telephone number shows the cabinet number, and others on the same cabinet can order FTTC the usual thing is that Openreach believe you will get well under 5 Mbps and so don't list FTTC as an option.

If when using the BT Wholesale checker http://www.thinkbroadband.com/btavailability.html no cabinet number is listed then you are on exchannge only line.

If the village was enabled as part of the Openreach commercial roll-out the next step is to find out what the County Council is doing, if they have ERDF funding too, as a business you will have higher priority for super fast broadband, but a lot depends on the target level in the County, e.g. if its 90% and the rest on 2 Mbps you may see no improvements.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew[email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Tue 19-Nov-13 20:12:14
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
BT BROADBAND AVAILABILITY CHECKER
Telephone Number ..... on Exchange MALTON is served by Cabinet 9
Featured Products

Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Downstream Range(Mbps)

Availability Date

WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 2.5 -- 1 to 4 Available
WBC ADSL 2+ Annex M Up to 2.5 Up to 0.5 1 to 4 Available
ADSL Max Up to 2 -- 1 to 3.5 Available
WBC Fixed Rate 1 -- -- Available
Fixed Rate 1 -- -- Available
Other Offerings
Fibre Multicast -- -- -- Available
For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (FTTC) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.

Throughput/download speeds will be less than line rates and can be affected by a number of factors within and external to BT's network, Communication Providers' networks and within customer premises.

The Stop Sale date for Datastream is from 30-Jun-2012; the Formal Retirement date for Datastream is from 28-Feb-2014. The Stop Sale date for IPstream is from 31-Oct-2013; the Formal Retirement date for IPstream is from 28-Feb-2014.

If the End User wishes to migrate from their current Broadband supplier they will need to contact them in the first instance to obtain a MAC (Migrations Authorisation) Code, and then contact their new Broadband supplier to arrange for the service to be migrated.

Note: Please note that postcode and address check results are indicative only. Most accurate results can be obtained from a telephone number check.
Thank you for your interest.


Does this help? Thanks for the reply

Edited by TomPoolHD (Tue 19-Nov-13 20:13:01)


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 19-Nov-13 20:15:35
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
Well confirms no FTTC enabled and the 1 to 4 Mbps for ADSL2+ is normal, I'd estimate independently around 2.7 to 4 Meg based on the attenuation.

If you can find numbers of other properties closer to cabinet 9 and check you will see if the cabinet is live. No idea how big or small Malton is, but it is very normal to have one cabinet that serves 2/3rd of the village enabled and another not.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Tue 19-Nov-13 20:19:30
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Here you go.. Look at this served by the same cabinet 9 as me and look..... :


BT BROADBAND AVAILABILITY CHECKER
Telephone Number 01653692618 on Exchange MALTON is served by Cabinet 9
Featured Products

Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Downstream Range(Mbps)

Availability Date

High Low High Low
FTTC Range A (Clean) 69 69 20 20 -- Available
FTTC Range B (Impacted) 69 69 20 20 -- Available

WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 6 -- 4 to 8 Available
WBC ADSL 2+ Annex M Up to 6 Up to 1 4 to 8 Available
ADSL Max Up to 5 -- 3.5 to 7.5 Available
WBC Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available
Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available
Other Offerings
Fibre Multicast -- -- -- Available
For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (FTTC) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.

For FTTC Ranges A and B, the term "Clean" relates to a line which is free from any wiring issues (e.g. Bridge Taps) and/or Copper line conditions, and the term "Impacted" relates to a line which may have wiring issues (e.g. Bridge Taps) and/or Copper line conditions.

Throughput/download speeds will be less than line rates and can be affected by a number of factors within and external to BT's network, Communication Providers' networks and within customer premises.

The Stop Sale date for Datastream is from 30-Jun-2012; the Formal Retirement date for Datastream is from 28-Feb-2014. The Stop Sale date for IPstream is from 31-Oct-2013; the Formal Retirement date for IPstream is from 28-Feb-2014.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 19-Nov-13 20:29:45
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
Okay likely then that Openreach think you have a VERY long line to the cabinet. They do sometimes get this wrong.

If you can find out where cabinet 9 is on a map, and email me [email protected] with your details I'll take a look at likely cable routes and if it looks wrong, pester Openreach on your behalf.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Tue 19-Nov-13 20:43:15
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
do you have line of sight to somewhere with a high speed checker result ?

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Tue 19-Nov-13 20:49:26
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
No not really. The village is over the bypass from our house. If the bypass was not there i would yes.
Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Tue 19-Nov-13 20:49:56
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I sent a email over. Thanks
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Tue 19-Nov-13 21:03:10
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Well confirms no FTTC enabled


Sure Mr Saffron?

Fibre Multicast -- -- -- Available


To me says that the cabinet is FTTC enabled but OP is too far from it. I may be wrong but I've not seen Fibre Multicast on a non-enabled cabinet before.

EDIT: Just read the rest of the thread, sorry, however I'm pretty sure that the above gives away that a cabinet is enabled even if the individual line is too far away to get a result from the checker.

Edited by Ignitionnet (Tue 19-Nov-13 21:04:17)

Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Tue 19-Nov-13 21:23:59
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Have you got any ideas on how we would get a better speed ? I checked on the bt infinity checker and it gave me a option for Bt Faster total broadband at 7mb/s and we chose that option.. Had a engineer visit and he said that he could not install the broadband because the line was to long..He said that some of the cable under the bypass was aliminium and that would drive down the speed with the partial fibre service. That was the end of the 7mb/s they had predicted and we just stuck with thre adsl.
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Wed 20-Nov-13 00:37:02
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
Surely BT can put new Cabinet nearby you. Why can't they do this? FTTC is the future (rubbish it isn't as BT still doing cabinets for FTTC even 1km away was very bad move as customers fed up being stuck at below 7Meg)

plusnetADSL2+16 Meg

Edited by adslmax (Wed 20-Nov-13 00:37:57)

Standard User ccxo
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 20-Nov-13 01:25:53
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
http://goo.gl/maps/zlTXh

Cab 9, if the op has not found it.

Orange BB 5856/448
Standard User eckiedoo
(committed) Wed 20-Nov-13 07:38:08
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
Morning Tom
"
For FTTC Ranges A and B, the term "Clean" relates to a line which is free from any wiring issues (e.g. Bridge Taps) and/or Copper line conditions, and the term "Impacted" relates to a line which may have wiring issues (e.g. Bridge Taps) and/or Copper line conditions.

Throughput/download speeds will be less than line rates and can be affected by a number of factors within and external to BT's network, Communication Providers' networks and within customer premises.
"

Note the reference to "Copper Line Conditions" (which although not stated, also includes Aluminium - poorer conductor).

And also "within the customer premises" - ie from the Network Terminating Box (NTE) onwards to any and all devices both directly and obviously connected to your internal phone extensions; and also other devices such as plasma TV sets, micro-wave cookers etc.

=======================================

If you have not already done so recently, you should go through the Quiet Line" Test procedures, if available.

First try dialling 17070.

If you get an automated reply about testing etc, press 2 for the Quiet Test - 4 if SKY is your Phone Provider.

Apart from a very low hum on some lines, the line should be quiet, NO loud noises, "snap, crackle and pops" etc.

Having established that you have access to the QLT, then go to the NTE, the generally white box where your phone line becomes available in your house.

If it is the more recent type, remove the front section to reveal a single Test Socket.

Otherwise plug in preferably a corded, (preferably older and siimple) phone.

Repeat the QLT - if you hear any untoward noise, report this to your PHONE PROVIDER - who should then deal with BT including Openreach - the latter being the owner and maintainer of most phone lines in the UK.

Repeat the QLT withan ADSL Splitter added, ie NTE through Splitter to phone.

----------------------------------

You may also wish to test your own phone wiring within your house - your responsibility.

Reconnect at the NTE, then progressively connect individual extensions and devices, doing a QLT each time. No Charge!

Also progressively switch on other devices, such as TV sets, micro-wave cookers, alarms etc, again doing a QLT at each stage.

Yes, it can be time-consuming - but if you are to get the best performance out of Broadband, whether ADSL, VDSL etc, delivered over the phone line, you need to work through all of those stages.
Standard User gah789
(learned) Wed 20-Nov-13 09:47:32
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
This is a classic rural/isolated broadband situation that is not likely to be addressed by BT or BDUK in the foreseeable future as the cost per connection served of installing a new cabinet is much too high. There are people in similar situations who have done something for themselves, but it requires a considerable amount of effort.

I can't see from Google Maps whether in Old Malton there is a church with a steeple or another building with a high point that is visible from your side of the A64. What you would need to do is: form a small cooperative of people on your side, install a receiving antenna on a high point in Old Malton that can be served by one or more FTTC connections, and link to that using a small wireless antenna from masts on the top of your building(s) or nearby trees. The land seems pretty flat and the density of trees could be much worse, so that there should be a way of routing the signals to avoid obstacles.

The difficulty is that this is much more complicated than just ringing your preferred ISP. It will be considerably cheaper if you can share the wireless infrastructure. Hence, what really matters is how much effort you and/or others in the same situation are prepared to put in. But as many people living on farms or genuinely rural locations have found, no-one else is going to do anything to improve matters.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 20-Nov-13 09:58:25
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Cabinet is enabled, but their line is too long so Openreach not offering it.

have now seen location and distance 1.8 miles

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 20-Nov-13 09:59:58
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
Would you spend £30,000 to bring FTTC to perhaps 5 people?

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 20-Nov-13 10:01:27
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: gah789] [link to this post]
 
Having had a chance to look at the maps and the isolation of the property in question, yes this is one of those it falls outside the scope of BDUK projects.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Wed 20-Nov-13 10:13:43
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Cabinet is enabled, but their line is too long so Openreach not offering it.

have now seen location and distance 1.8 miles


Feel sorry for the residental customers. BT are simple very bad and don't care about customers. Why isn't BT keep waste of million of pounds of putting cabinets 1.8 miles away from the property is pretty madness.

plusnetADSL2+16 Meg
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Wed 20-Nov-13 10:16:06
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Would you spend £30,000 to bring FTTC to perhaps 5 people?


Because BT are waste of million of pound of putting too many cabinets below 25Mbps and the distance is unbelieved too far away. BT never learn the future technology and BT should stop called superfast broadband if FTTC cannot getting more than 25Mbps.

plusnetADSL2+16 Meg

Edited by adslmax (Wed 20-Nov-13 10:17:02)

Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 20-Nov-13 10:21:44
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by adslmax:
Surely BT can put new Cabinet nearby you. Why can't they do this?
Openreach can only locate a cabinet where the relevant cables run past. So far, they've adopted the policy of putting the cabinet at the PCP, which can mean reorganising the copper network to create a PCP in an appropriate place.

In this case, it sounds like the OP is distant from the PCP and in a remote location, so this kind of network reorganisation to create a cabinet does not make economic sense - you'd site an costly cabinet in a remote location where few users could take advantage of it.

In some parts of Cornwall, FTTP has been used to cover disparate remote properties, but the cost per user is high. As gah789 says, this may be a situation where self help is the best approach.

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 20-Nov-13 10:48:09
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
Urm because there are lots of other properties a lot closer and thus can benefit from the cabinet been enabled.

BT tends not to be build cabinets 1.8 miles away from everyone.

Harsh as it sounds, this is not about a village of 100 properties not getting service, but one farm at 1.8 miles, there may be another closer at around 1.3 miles but the 99.9% of the rest of the properties look inside 1km.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Wed 20-Nov-13 10:52:24
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by adslmax:
Because BT are waste of million of pound of putting too many cabinets below 25Mbps and the distance is unbelieved too far away. BT never learn the future technology and BT should stop called superfast broadband if FTTC cannot getting more than 25Mbps.


BT are usually among the working groups inventing the 'future technology'.

You're here whinging about BT meanwhile elsewhere you're pressing a hearing aid up against a cabinet because you're so desperate to use FTTC.

Seriously seek mental help and perhaps gainful employment.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Wed 20-Nov-13 10:52:48
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TomPoolHD:
Have you got any ideas on how we would get a better speed ? I checked on the bt infinity checker and it gave me a option for Bt Faster total broadband at 7mb/s and we chose that option.. Had a engineer visit and he said that he could not install the broadband because the line was to long..He said that some of the cable under the bypass was aliminium and that would drive down the speed with the partial fibre service. That was the end of the 7mb/s they had predicted and we just stuck with thre adsl.


ah, so you have had an attempted FTTC install that didn't work ? ie the engineer couldn't get a signal ?

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 20-Nov-13 10:53:16
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
Can I suggest you read the Openreach press releases and not what the journalists re-jig to say...Openreach is surprisingly careful in its use of wording normally.

Can I suggest a look at http://blog.thinkbroadband.com/2013/05/so-how-fast-a... and you will see that the speed spread is not unlike the national projections. Also pay head to the table of speeds.

Yes Virgin Media does better in speed tests, but then we see lots leaving Virgin Media because of congestion issues

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User timl
(committed) Wed 20-Nov-13 13:02:40
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
If that's true (the OP is connected to an FTTC enabled cabinet) wouldn't FTTPoD (if it were available) be perfect in this situation... albeit very expensive for the end user (and BT)

Plusnet unlimited FTTC
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 20-Nov-13 13:13:05
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: timl] [link to this post]
 
If the pricing was within their budget then yes, off top of head £3000 install and then the monthly fee for the 300 Mbps service.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 20-Nov-13 13:23:27
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
BT are usually among the working groups inventing the 'future technology'.

You're here whinging about BT meanwhile elsewhere you're pressing a hearing aid up against a cabinet because you're so desperate to use FTTC.

Seriously seek mental help and perhaps gainful employment.


Could I politely suggest we append a signature to all ADSLMAX's posts, something along the lines of.

"Please ignore any statements or facts that I post, as I clearly don't understand what I'm commenting on"

So many people are now having to correct what he posts.

Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Wed 20-Nov-13 13:24:59
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
£3000 for 300mb/s wow .. I dont think that would be a option.. Thats a lot of money for internet and then a monthly fee. Regarding the try for the FTTC the engineer got a signal but he said the speeds where only 3 mb/s down and 1mb/s up when he tried. So we stayed with the ADSL.

Edited by TomPoolHD (Wed 20-Nov-13 13:29:43)

Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 20-Nov-13 13:46:09
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
If the pricing was within their budget then yes, off top of head £3000 install and then the monthly fee for the 300 Mbps service.
It is likely to be more than that in this case. FTTPoD is priced on radial (i.e. straight line) distance to the aggregation node.

1.8 miles from the cabinet is 2.9 km. If that is line length, the radial distance may be somewhat shorter. However, the aggregation node is not necessarily at the cabinet - it is unlikely to be closer than the cabinet and could be a fair distance further away.

1500-1999m from the aggregation node is a total of £4000 plus VAT for FTTPoD installation. This is the highest band in the Openreach wholesale FTTPoD price list before you reach "Terms On Application". I suspect the OP's case falls into "Terms on Application".

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 20-Nov-13 14:08:55
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
If the on demand pricing is too high and more speed needed

Then its

1. 3g/4g - what 3G speeds do you get now?
2. Fixed wireless - i.e. point to point extension from next nearest property with decent speeds.
3. Satellite - poor latency but a boon for business use, less so for TV streaming due to usage limits.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Wed 20-Nov-13 14:26:48
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
he appears as (knowledge is power) maybe needs to be (ignorance isn't bliss)

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Wed 20-Nov-13 16:14:41
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Well saying this. I can test from the top of our house(we have thick walls so i have to go to the window to even get a signal) but when i do the 3G can be about 10-20mb/s, i have some speed test results here.
http://gyazo.com/668e544c5254ca1fedc7af530d2b90ab
and
http://gyazo.com/c07a2dba8b7d36cc0a86df6410544f10
thanks

Edited by TomPoolHD (Wed 20-Nov-13 16:28:01)

Standard User gah789
(learned) Wed 20-Nov-13 17:58:32
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
With these speeds, get a 3G router with a good aerial such as a WIBE HS21 which will work as a WiFi hub or can be connected to your network. Then, go for the most suitable 3G data contract - probably from 3 if it has coverage in your area.

The WIBE costs £350 but in my experience it does enhance and stabilise the 3G throughput for weak signals. This will be a lot less trouble than a self-help fixed wireless solution, especially if you run it in parallel with your ADSL service. The thing to be careful about is download limits because it is expensive to run over the monthly limit - a maximum of 15GB for 3.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 20-Nov-13 18:13:27
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: gah789] [link to this post]
 
Or if the antenna needs to be outside to get the best speeds look at http://www.solwise.co.uk/3g-antenna-outdoor.htm though best to keep the lead from antenna to router as short as possible otherwise what the antenna gains the lead will lose

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Wed 20-Nov-13 18:19:51
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: gah789] [link to this post]
 
Ok well 3G is a no go then. If its going to be 15GB usage cap that not too good for me. I download game and use a lot more than 15gb, Just wishing that the partial fiber service worked.. I heard about line bonding.. That could be a option Thanks anyway.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 20-Nov-13 19:31:48
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
It might, but on a line with such low FTTC speeds it may not be reliable enough.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Wed 20-Nov-13 20:01:31
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Just found this map on Supe Fast North Yorkshire it is showing the coverage of fiber in malton and old malton.. They are supposed to be ''connecting the community'' here in Malton and all over north yorkshire.
Here is a screen shot of the map: http://gyazo.com/9d880dc73e45461a2c02f40620f2dd7d
Super Fast North Yorkshire:http://www.superfastnorthyorkshire.com/home
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Wed 20-Nov-13 20:03:48
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
TomPoolHD - The only way is write a letter to PM and ask him to fund the cost for fibre all the way to your property from the exchange and tell the PM to stop waste the billion of pound on stupid HS2 railway network. I do feel sorry for you mate to be honest. If I am the CEO of Openreach, I will put the share funds towards to every property who had 1km away from the cabinet FTTC is no benefit at all. The only best option is FTTH.

plusnetADSL2+16 Meg

Edited by adslmax (Wed 20-Nov-13 20:07:15)

Standard User kitcat
(committed) Wed 20-Nov-13 20:09:49
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
Tom

If you are at the farmstead I think you are, only a fixed radio link to someone in the village is likely to be cost effective.

You would need line of sight from a pole to one in the village where you could rent a BB line, this may serve all the dwelling in your small cluster if you are happy sharing the bandwidth. You are a long way from the cab due to the Bypass as well.

I couldn't see an overhead pole route to you so FTTPoD would be in the very expensive range. As you have more than 2Mb it is unlikely anyone would be interested in helping you get better as the present target for your sort of area is only 2Mb at present.

If enogh of your neighbours are interested you could always offer Openreach to self dig for a full FTTP solution back to wherever they cross the bypass. this could reduce the cost to £2-5K, would need 8 plus installations to make to cost effective for them as well. They do say they will look at offers to 'self dig'.
Standard User kitcat
(committed) Wed 20-Nov-13 20:15:14
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
Even if they decided to do FTTP this premise would be at the very back of the queue, they will always be in the last 1% of dwellings to be done unless they do it themselves. Have a look at the map.

Unless you are a millionaire with money to burn you too would not look at supplying the address. If you are the aforementioned millionaire put your money up now and pay for him.
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Wed 20-Nov-13 20:18:35
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
If I did win the £25 million pound on the lottery, I will give to BT £10 million pound to help all farmer get FTTP (if the government willing to put £10 million with my share) to grant BT £20 million in total.

plusnetADSL2+16 Meg

Edited by adslmax (Wed 20-Nov-13 20:19:12)

Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 20-Nov-13 20:22:48
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
Unless I'm mistaken, the BDUK projects like Superfast North Yorkshire plan primarily at the cabinet level. Whilst they might be aware that there are some D side pairs on your cabinet that are so long FTTC will be essentially useless, I doubt they're targeting funding at those lines.

Cornwall used some of their BDUK funds to provide FTTP to remote properties. MrSaffron will likely know more about the Cornish use of FTTP.


It is certainly worth enquiring with Superfast North Yorkshire if they are able to do anything to help you. Make sure your enquiry underlines that your line connects via an FTTC enabled cabinet but the long line length from the cabinet made the FTTC service you had installed too slow to be of any use.

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 20-Nov-13 20:39:19
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
As Cornwall went so early some of the issues do not exist that do for BDUK areas and a very good relationship with the council

As yet North Yorkshire has not made any commitment to 100% super fast and lone properties are always likely to be last unless its a business and ERDF funding might be available.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/6138-north-yorksh...

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Wed 20-Nov-13 20:49:40
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Are Boston Spa including on this BDUK area MrSaffron. Cos my mate live in Boston Spa and he asked me if they will bring FTTC to this area. He struggle to get 1.7Meg out of ADSL.

plusnetADSL2+16 Meg

Edited by adslmax (Wed 20-Nov-13 20:50:22)

Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Wed 20-Nov-13 20:52:22
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
Hello kitcat. The line is underground from the cabinet to the start of our lane. Then it come out of the ground and continues on poles to our farm. Openreach have been down our lane a week ago replacing a telephone pole it had a great lean on it. Here is a Link to google maps street view as you can see on the left hand side the line is there and if you follow it back you can find where it starts. Thanks
https://maps.gstatic.com/m/streetview/?panoid=lDgnRp...

Edited by TomPoolHD (Wed 20-Nov-13 20:57:03)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 20-Nov-13 21:03:00
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
Is Boston Spa in North Yorkshire and where does it stand no their map?

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Wed 20-Nov-13 21:14:15
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Boston Spa is in West Yorkshire, LS23 6DF

plusnetADSL2+16 Meg
Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Wed 20-Nov-13 22:07:52
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Well I'm pretty angry I just found this for 2 business over the road from me. They are on my side of the bypass and are lets say 50m closer to old malton than me. Both business are right next to each other and one of them is the well know Eden Camp if you want to google it location in relation to me. I'm YO17 6RE and Eden camp is YO17 6RT . Both give way different results even though they are right next to each other, the other business if russels which is a agricultural place that deal with tractors and I was wondering if I should shoot a email over to Super fast northyorkshire including that 2 business would also benefit from faster broadband. Eden Camp is pretty well know and has busses arriving most days to visit so that could be worth a mention.. Do you think it's a good idea?

Here is the 2 test for Eden camp and Russels both of cabinet 9 and about as far as me from the cabinet.

Russels: http://t.co/irmyFUBLjE
Eden Camp: http://t.co/ucKTkQTa7z
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Wed 20-Nov-13 22:22:42
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by adslmax:
Boston Spa is in West Yorkshire, LS23 6DF


Boston Spa would be covered by Superfast West Yorkshire.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 20-Nov-13 22:55:53
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
You may think the Eden camp is close to you but a map says the two post codes are 2 miles apart and Eden Camp Modern History Museum is a fair lick closer to the cabinet than these two cabinets.

In terms of most broadband technologies only fixed wireless would serve both those postcodes without too much effort. You won't get a FTTC cabinet closer for the two of you...

This will sound harsh but you need to make a very strong case (beyond I want) for them to spend money to improve connectivity for your business, it may be they just say we will look at it once the current programme finishes and we are planning what to do with the next chunk of money.

You have fast 3G available to you, which is a lot more than many businesses have in rural areas.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 20-Nov-13 23:10:14
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Given:-
In reply to a post by TomPoolHD:
The internet is really bad for youtube and gaming witch is what i mostly use it for
isn't he probably better with ADSLx for the gaming?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 20-Nov-13 23:13:49
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Keep the ADSL for the latency sensitive stuff and long overnight downloads and use the 3G for other bits of pieces.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 20-Nov-13 23:44:49
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
It's very hard to read the screen captures, but I believe one gives an FTTC estimate of 10.9/1 Mbit/s and the other 4/0.9 Mbit/s. These are, of course, only estimates, and FTTC may fail to work reliably on both of these lines due to the low upstream speed.

I'm not clear what your point is. Three premises do not make a compelling case for expensive technical solutions of the magnitude of installing around 2 km of new underground fibre. Even if all three of you took up 330/30 Mbit/s FTTP, the wholesale revenue on those three ports would be less than £1500 per annum before VAT, and the install costs are going to be way more than ten times that.


BDUK aims to use EU State Aid to improve superfast coverage by contributing towards the cost of roll-out in locations where the economic viability on a purely commercial basis is marginal to mildly negative. As can be seen by the superfast target being below 100%, BDUK never aimed to provide fibre based superfast to every home and business.

There are plenty of city centre business district locations where businesses cannot get FTTC or FTTP. Openreach excluded some cabinets in these areas from the commercial roll-out. Some have argued this was Openreach protecting their revenue for expensive point-to-point circuits such as leased lines, though a slightly more charitable explanation is that medium to large sized businesses need a handful of extremely fast connections, not a larger number of merely superfast connections. BDUK changes nothing in these areas, as there's already 95%+ superfast coverage in the area as a whole.


If you and the two other premises can get together a joint business case for faster broadband, why not investigate installing a shared 5 GHz wireless link that connects to an FTTC line close to the cabinet?

Standard User mr_mojo
(knowledge is power) Wed 20-Nov-13 23:51:33
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
I'm surprised you're finding it so hard to cope on 3mbit/sec. My parents house has 3mbit/sec and everything apart from HD streams brilliantly when I go to visit them.

Yes, things downloads take longer (leave my phone in the attic and I can get 20mbit/sec on tethering via wifi due to very thick built walls - but not that convenient) but I don't notice the difference day to day much between that and my 1gigE connection at work. In fact it's generally better than my Virgin Media cable in London.

The only thing that is dramatically different is upload speed.

Overall I would say look at getting a three 'one plan' sim, put it in a phone that supports at least DC-HSPA+ and you should be fine. Do HD streaming/giant downloads/uploads on that but leave everything else to ADSL.

It sounds like you're on a congested provider if you are finding it that bad. Youtube streams are generally 1mbit for 480p SD and around 2.5mbit/sec for HD...
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 21-Nov-13 00:32:12
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
It might be worth while spending a few minutes making sure you are getting the best possible from your ADSLx anyway.

You've already been asked who the ISP is, as for Youtube and gaming that can be important. Second, you gave us your attenuation. Could we have your connection speed and noise margin (maybe called SNR or SNRM by your router) figures please?

Once we have those, there are a probably few things to try, to inprove your speed smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Thu 21-Nov-13 07:37:12
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Here you go. Im with Plus net if that helps and i have a Billion 7800N.

Parameters
DSP Firmware Version A2pB025f.d22k
DMT Status No Defect
Operational Mode G.DMT
Upstream 448
Downstream 3430
SNR Margin(Upstream) 15.0
SNR Margin(Downstream) 6.4
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 31.5
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 54.0

And
WAN Interface
ADSL Mode Annex L Annex M
Modulator ADSL2 ADSL2+ G.Lite T1.413 G.Dmt(ticked)
Capability SRA Enable
PhyR Upstream Downstream(ticked)
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 21-Nov-13 09:24:29
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
Low speed due to the high target noise margin

http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/calc/index.php?param=RG...

As above link shows with those stats and a 6dB target you could be looking at a 4.7 Mbps connection. Time to do the same test but from the test socket to see if anything changes and can then look at wiring improvements.

You can probably double your upstream speed by asking PlusNet to uncap the upstream speed, as they have a bug where they cap you to 448 rather than letting it rate adapt.

The Billion might allow you to also manually tweak the downstream SNR margin to get more speed, but do the test socket first and see how different the noise margins are also at night.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User ojobobby
(newbie) Thu 21-Nov-13 10:37:21
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Hi TomPoolHD,

I agree its really frustrating when the cabinet that serves you has had FTTC enabled but you are just too far away to make use of it - but considering the location your ADSL speeds are really not too bad. Here in London NW5 I can only sync on ADSL at 4.5Mbit on a 52db attenuation. The lines are mostly aluminium as confirmed by open reach.

This sort of thing is happening everywhere, even for myself pretty much in central London! Our local cabinet is literally 10 seconds walk from my front door in the neighbouring street - FTTC planned but delayed/blocked due to council not liking the new cabinet position. If and when it eventually gets installed, it will have no direct benefit to homes on my street as we are on a direct to exchange cable and thus not in the fibre roll out at all. FTTC aside, the neighbouring streets connected via the cabinet can achieve double the ADSL speed I can. There are entire neighbourhoods in east London for example which can only achieve about 0.5mb due to line length.

Edited by ojobobby (Thu 21-Nov-13 10:48:15)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 21-Nov-13 13:00:40
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Low speed due to the high target noise margin
No! You've misread UP NM for Down. Speed spot on.

Is it lack of sleep or coffee again or whatever it was last time? grin

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Thu 21-Nov-13 14:24:57
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Low speed due to the high target noise margin


Your downstream SNR at 6.4dB with line attenuation of 54.0dB is perfectly fine. You cannot go lower than that on SNR because of long line. If you reduced snr to 3.0dB then your line will be total unstable as plusnet wouldn't put u on snr of 3 because of line attenuation is way too high.

Best way is get this cable from here: http://www.tandyonline.co.uk/electronics/telecoms-ds... (0.5m is best for reduced line attenuation) plug this cable from BT Master Socket to your router. And get this faceplate too: http://www.tandyonline.co.uk/electronics/telecoms-ds... (these are the best professional high quality faceplate will also reduced your stable snr)

I use both of it cable and faceplate and had reduced line attenuation by 2dB off and the faceplate had reduced SNR and stay stable at 3.1dB for 72 days. My line attenuation was 30.0dB before was 32.5dB

plusnetADSL2+16 Meg

Edited by adslmax (Thu 21-Nov-13 14:34:39)

Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Thu 21-Nov-13 16:44:47
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
Here we go : After a bit of SNR tweaking and ringing plus net im now pretty happy in what became of that. Oh and about plusnet letting my upstream go from 448 they said it will take some speed of my download sync so i decided against that.

DSP Firmware Version A2pB025f.d22k
DMT Status No Defect
Operational Mode G.DMT
Upstream 448
Downstream 4950
SNR Margin(Upstream) 15.0
SNR Margin(Downstream) 4.9
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 31.5
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 53.0

Edited by TomPoolHD (Thu 21-Nov-13 16:47:36)

Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Thu 21-Nov-13 16:52:35
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
try tweak snr to 4dB and see what happen. The upstream uncapped won't reduced downstream (that for Annex M as a extra charge for 2.5Mbps upload)

plusnetADSL2+16 Meg
Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Thu 21-Nov-13 16:53:45
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
Il give them another ring.
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Thu 21-Nov-13 16:56:52
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
U better off ask here: http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/board,3.0.... as there is plusnet staff and they will placed an order to get it uncapped upstream for you overnight. If you speak to someone over the phone (they placed an order but take 7 working days to get it uncapped upstream and often they get mix up and placed the wrong order) U can also request to get reset snr target 4dB and uncapped upstream on the forum.

Best of luck.

plusnetADSL2+16 Meg

Edited by adslmax (Thu 21-Nov-13 16:58:30)

Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Thu 21-Nov-13 16:58:39
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
Just spoken to a guy from plusnet. He said it could take up to midnight on saturday. So not that bad. Hopefully that will increase the upstream.
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Thu 21-Nov-13 17:00:56
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
Are they saying this saturday or a week after saturday as it sound like 9 days from today till next saturday.

plusnetADSL2+16 Meg
Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Thu 21-Nov-13 17:16:12
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
This Saturday. Yep. He said it could be Friday but give it until Saturday.
Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Thu 21-Nov-13 17:17:58
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
Ok here is the tweak i reset the router and put in 75 in the snr window.

DSP Firmware Version A2pB025f.d22k
DMT Status No Defect
Operational Mode G.DMT
Upstream 448
Downstream 5340
SNR Margin(Upstream) 15.0
SNR Margin(Downstream) 4.4
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 31.5
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 53.0
Standard User kasg
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 21-Nov-13 17:18:02
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
deleted

Kevin

plusnet Unlimited Fibre - BQM
Using OpenDNS
Domains and web hosting with TSOHOST

Edited by kasg (Thu 21-Nov-13 17:21:58)

Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Thu 21-Nov-13 17:21:06
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TomPoolHD:
This Saturday. Yep. He said it could be Friday but give it until Saturday.


That's great. It will be overnight anyway. BT normally do it after midnight to 8am. (Fri)

plusnetADSL2+16 Meg
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Thu 21-Nov-13 17:22:19
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TomPoolHD:
Downstream 5340

SNR Margin(Downstream) 4.4


Seem much better try 3.5 but no more.

plusnetADSL2+16 Meg
Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Thu 21-Nov-13 17:25:09
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
Think l will keep it at 4.5 just in case. Id rather have the extra speed and keep stable.
Thanks for you help.
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Thu 21-Nov-13 17:28:52
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
I think it can do 3.5 will be ok as the snr only drop between 0.5dB and 1.5dB during day/night. I always tweak snr around lunchtime (1pm to 2pm) is the best time to tweak snr.

If your 4.5dB is stable for a week, then try 3.5dB next step. But keep an eyes on the errors count on your line

plusnetADSL2+16 Meg
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Thu 21-Nov-13 17:37:33
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
Odd but so strange....

My old router DG834N

sync 13579/1171
snr 3.1
line attenuation 30.0

My new router DGND3700v2

sync 17511/1279
snr 3.1
line attenuation 30.0

plusnetADSL2+16 Meg

Edited by adslmax (Thu 21-Nov-13 17:40:21)

Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Thu 21-Nov-13 17:44:55
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
Different chipsets give different results.

DG834N: Broadcom BCM6358

DGND3700v2: Broadcom BCM6361
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Thu 21-Nov-13 17:48:18
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Is there any broadcom BCM6364 out there? Probably the sync rate lots higher than DGND3700v2 router

plusnetADSL2+16 Meg
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 21-Nov-13 22:44:16
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TomPoolHD:
about plusnet letting my upstream go from 448 they said it will take some speed of my download sync so i decided against that.
They're mixing up upgrading to ADSL Max Premium with Annex M. It won't affect your downstream.

Shocked that PN CS staff does not know his Annex M.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Fri 22-Nov-13 07:39:51
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Right ok just checked the router and the up stream is now789kb/s. A good improvement!
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Fri 22-Nov-13 09:36:00
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
That's not bad. I knew it would be done overnight.

plusnetADSL2+16 Meg
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 22-Nov-13 10:21:01
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
In reply to a post by TomPoolHD:
about plusnet letting my upstream go from 448 they said it will take some speed of my download sync so i decided against that.
They're mixing up upgrading to ADSL Max Premium with Annex M. It won't affect your downstream.

Shocked that PN CS staff does not know his Annex M.


I've got a couple people's lines uncapped over the years and Plusnet have always advised that it would affect download speed, but it never has.

They really shouldn't be capping the upload if it won't affect download speeds.

Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Fri 22-Nov-13 10:48:42
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by R0NSKI:
They really shouldn't be capping the upload if it won't affect download speeds.


I agree 100% it would save BT & Plusnet money & times to do this.

plusnetADSL2+16 Meg
Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Fri 22-Nov-13 12:48:17
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
Last night the snr in the afternoon was about 4.0 and last night it dropped to 1.9 ... And did not drop but i have a feeling it could of.. Is this normal ? I kicked the snr back up to 6db and it stayed at lowest 4.4 after that. Any ideas ?

Edited by TomPoolHD (Fri 22-Nov-13 19:06:55)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 22-Nov-13 14:42:21
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by R0NSKI:
They really shouldn't be capping the upload if it won't affect download speeds.
Users have to order and pay extra for upgrading to ADSL Max Premium.

Or are you confusing it with PN's habit of capping ADSL2+ to 448K upon installation. In that case I agree with you.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 22-Nov-13 14:50:43
Print Post

Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
Yes, it's normal, or at least common. On ADSLx mine used to vary by 3.5dB over 24 hours. Nothing to worry about.

That's why the standard margin used to be set to a minimum 6dB, to cater for greater variation.

It also depends how good the router is at coping - Speedtouch 585s I found typically lost sync when he margin fell below 3dB, whereas NetGear 834 series would hold to 0dB or even slightly negative values.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Fri 22-Nov-13 15:10:24
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TomPoolHD:
4.0 and last night it dropped to 1.9


Between 4 and 1.9 will be fine. I don't think it won't lower than 1.9dB. You can leave it at 4dB anyway. But for snr tweak at 3dB probably too much and could go lower around 1dB.

I had mine set at 3.1dB and went down at 2.0dB overnight which it fine as I had it stable for 72 days.

plusnetADSL2+16 Meg
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 22-Nov-13 15:36:00
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
I'm not confusing anything, I was referring to them capping ADSL2.+ lines which I thought you was saying was unaffected by uncapped upload speed.

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 22-Nov-13 15:42:54
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
confused

I explicitly stated I was talking about 'ADSL Max Premium' in the context of OP's getting his G.DMT upstream uncapped.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 22-Nov-13 16:37:12
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
confused

I explicitly stated I was talking about 'ADSL Max Premium' in the context of OP's getting his G.DMT upstream uncapped.


And I thought we we're talking about getting the OPs ADSL2+ line uncapped (which he did), so we may have our wires crossed.

Plusnet always cap uploads on ADSL2+ at 448Kb/s (see here), and they have always said that uncapping the upload would affect download speeds, and all cases were I've had lines uncapped on ADSL2+ it's not affect the download speed but has boosted the upload speed.

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 22-Nov-13 17:36:02
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
Sorry, you're right! I was forgetting that OP was on ADSL2+ service but running on G.DMT. So everything I said about 'ADSL Max Premium' was a load of cobblers.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Fri 22-Nov-13 19:09:25
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Im running on the G.DMT to try get a better speed. I read it on a forum somewhere that its better for longer lines. Am i right saying it is?
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 22-Nov-13 19:10:35
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TomPoolHD:
Im running on the G.DMT to try get a better speed. I read it on a forum somewhere that its better for longer lines. Am i right saying it is?


it can be, but so can plain adsl2.

if a long line I would try plain adsl2 before going back to g.dmt.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012 - BQM
Standard User panda
(committed) Fri 22-Nov-13 19:14:29
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
ADSL2 (not ADSL2+) is likely to to be better than G.DMT, as this uses the same set of frequencies, but with a more efficient algorithm.
ADSL2+ uses the same algorithm as ADSL2, but with the addition of more (higher) frequencies which attenuate more quickly.

Simplistically, try all three and see which performs best for you.

Eats shoots and leaves.

Edited by panda (Fri 22-Nov-13 19:15:00)

Standard User Lethe
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 22-Nov-13 19:15:11
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
From my experience with a bad line, it is best to leave your kit on 'auto' and get your ISP to get the DSLAM set to bog standard adsl. My line increased speed quite a lot, and also was stable (as opposed to making the modem try to do it).

Nick
Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Fri 22-Nov-13 19:37:33
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: Lethe] [link to this post]
 
Well the router i have is the Billion 7800N. I bought this after looking on forums and finding the best router for long lines. It also features the SNR tweaking ability which i think it a very nice feature.

This is the G.DMT stats:
DSP Firmware Version A2pB025f.d22k
DMT Status No Defect
Operational Mode G.DMT
Upstream 736
Downstream 4960
SNR Margin(Upstream) 7.0
SNR Margin(Downstream) 4.9
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 31.5
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 53.0

ADSL2
Parameters
DSP Firmware Version A2pB025f.d22k
DMT Status No Defect
Operational Mode ADSL2
Upstream 779
Downstream 5123
SNR Margin(Upstream) 5.9
SNR Margin(Downstream) 2.8 <----- Bearing in mind its 7:37pm on a Friday.
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 32.1
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 52.5 <------- Reduced my attenuation ?

I will try ADSL2+ after i try the ADSL2 for 3 days.

Oh and by the way i appreciate all the help you people have been giving me. Thankyou

Edited by TomPoolHD (Fri 22-Nov-13 19:38:53)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 22-Nov-13 19:55:06
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
While you can recommend hardware and settings, the joy of it is until you try all the combinations hard to say what is best for an individual line

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 22-Nov-13 20:13:02
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: TomPoolHD] [link to this post]
 
No need to delay trying all combinations. Most compariable when done close togerher.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User TomPoolHD
(newbie) Fri 22-Nov-13 20:16:41
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Only problem is that plusnet drop my line profile down to 3mb/s and it all slows down if i restart the router a lot.

EDIT: just did a speed test and got 3.39mb/s.. Rang plusnet and apparently the BT equipment set the speed at 3.50mb/s and will release over time.. Is this correct ?

Thanks

Edited by TomPoolHD (Fri 22-Nov-13 21:42:25)

Standard User TomPoolHD
(learned) Sat 23-Nov-13 19:28:11
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Re: When will we get better internet?


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
Just purchased the 0.5m RJ11 cable. What's the difference to a normal cable ?
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