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Hi,
Had fttc installed a week ago. When Open Reach engineer came to the house (having done the rewiring at the cabinet), he first plugged in his meter (straight into my existing ADSL filtered faceplate) and was showing 30Mb/s down and 6Mbps up. This seemed good, slightly higher than the estimate of 20 down and 5 up, but in line with some of the graphs I had seen for a connection of around 1km.
He then changed the back box and put the new faceplate on and retested with his meter, this time it was 28 down and only 3 up. He then installed the open reach modem and I connected up the Plusnet fibre router and tested - seemed my profile was still stuck at 3Mbps from ADSL, so had to call plusnet who then raised the download speed to my initial estimate of 20Mb/s. Unfortunately late that evening the profile seemed to drop to 3Mb/s, but a call to plusnet and they put it up to 30Mb down as they could see this is what I was synced at. Since then, It seems to have been stable around those down/up speeds.
My question is why am I getting a much lower upload speed than estimated, and why was it faster with the old ADSL filtered faceplate?
Obviously I'm happy that the download speed is better than the estimate, but I am disappointed with the upload speed.
As an aside, I wasn't happy with not being able to see the line stats fromm the open reach modem (the newer ECI type) and the plusnet router was poor to say the least, so I have purchased a new BT home hub 5 from ebay. This hasn't improved (or made worse) the upload speed, but at least I can now see some stats (pasted below).
Any thoughts/suggestions gratefully received.
(p.s. I did ask to leave my internal wiring connected - wondered if it was worth removing this and testing?).
Thanks,
Tim.
1. Product name: BT Home Hub
2. Serial number: *******************
3. Firmware version: Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.173.1.4 (Type A) Last updated Unknown
4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. VDSL uptime: 0 days, 06:38:50
6. Data rate: 2945 / 28369
7. Maximum data rate: 3017 / 32753
8. Noise margin: 6.3 / 6.2
9. Line attenuation: 0.0 / 28.2
10. Signal attenuation: 0.0 / 25.0
11. Data sent/received: 41.8 MB / 184.4 MB
Edited by deleted (Thu 05-Dec-13 12:58:41)
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Not sure how close the meters agree with the modems themselves, as not many reports on the meter readings.
If you had a faceplate, then should have been no need to change the back box, but just uninstall your faceplate, add the interstitial and connect the normal half sized master faceplate and make sure extensions are connected to that.
If any ADSL/VDSL kit was connected when doing the changes it may be the DLM saw errors and slowed you down, all the openreach profiles tend to favour error free stability over the fastest speeds.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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(p.s. I did ask to leave my internal wiring connected - wondered if it was worth removing this and testing?) Yes, definitely. How is this internal wiring connected?
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I think it is daisy chained from socket to socket - but will check later. I asked it to remain connected, as our house alarm has a phone dialer
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My description of 'back box' is probably wrong, the box into the wall remained but he changed the front parts. This is what it was 'converted' to http://phil.lavin.me.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/f...
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I think it is daisy chained from socket to socket - but will check later. I asked it to remain connected, as our house alarm has a phone dialer The question really is, how is it connected at the master socket?
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Anything phone like, e.g. alarm sky box needs to be wired to the faceplate (smallest part in http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/faceplate/images/test-s...
http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/faceplate/ has arrows added showing the key bits.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Ok, I've disconnected the bottom part of the front faceplate - to which my internal wiring is connected (as per those images), and now just have the home hub plugged into the rj11 socket. Upon restarting the home hub I'm still at the same connection speeds. Interestingly I spoke to my adjacent neighbour today and asked what speeds he was getting on fibre, his down is similar 25-30Mbps, but his upload is much better than mine at 5-6Mbps (i.e. slightly more than the estimate).
Is it worth me re-instating the adsl filtered faceplate I had previously and seeing what that connects at - this is what the Open Reach engineer did initially and showed the upload sync of 6Mbps?
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Do you have an old (working) dangly filter? If so, you can remove the interstitial filtered faceplate and use that into the test socket behind it. That would probably be a lot easier and safer than messing with the extension wires.
Don't mess too much often - the Openreach DLM can get upset. It does usually recover but can take a while.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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Yes, I can probably find an old dongle style filter, but I think I can get my old adsl faceplate reconnected - and at least this then matches the first test the engineer did where the upload speed was good. I'll probably leave this until tomorrow, as it has been disconnected a couple of times today (by itself at about 5am this morning, and then recently by me).
Out of interest, what are the differences between the ADSL and VDSL filters - is it just that higher frequencies are allowed to pass for the higher connection speed? If so, with my much lower connection speeds (due to 1km distance to cab), I guess this may not be much of an issue anyhow.
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by itself at about 5am this morning This could indicate a problem.
With the faceplate removed, is the alarm still connected?
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With faceplate removed, all the extensions are now disconnected - I have put our phone directly into the 'test' socket.
I assume I'm still in the training period, and thought some of these disconnects would relate to that?
Is there any way to get error stats from the home hub 5?
Looking at the event logs, it appears the disconnect/reconnect was being done as part of a f/w update attempt?
05:49:30, 05 Dec. (19421.650000) CWMP: session completed successfully
05:49:30, 05 Dec. (19421.430000) CWMP: HTTP authentication success from https://pbthdm.bt.mo
05:49:25, 05 Dec. (19416.800000) CWMP: Server URL: https://pbthdm.bt.mo; Connecting as user: ACS username
05:49:25, 05 Dec. (19416.790000) CWMP: Session start now. Event code(s): '4 VALUE CHANGE'
05:49:23, 05 Dec. (19414.350000) WAN operating mode is VDSL
05:49:23, 05 Dec. (19414.350000) Last WAN operating mode was VDSL
05:49:22, 05 Dec. (19413.460000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration ACK
05:49:22, 05 Dec. (19413.440000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
05:49:22, 05 Dec. (19413.440000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration NAK
05:49:22, 05 Dec. (19413.440000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration ACK
05:49:22, 05 Dec. (19413.440000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration Request
05:49:21, 05 Dec. (19412.930000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
05:49:21, 05 Dec. (19412.930000) CHAP authentication successful
05:49:21, 05 Dec. (19412.350000) CHAP Receive Challenge
05:49:21, 05 Dec. (19412.350000) Starting CHAP authentication with peer
05:49:21, 05 Dec. (19412.340000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration ACK
05:49:21, 05 Dec. (19412.320000) PPP LCP Send Configuration ACK
05:49:21, 05 Dec. (19412.320000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
05:49:21, 05 Dec. (19412.320000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Request
05:49:20, 05 Dec. (19411.520000) CHAP Receive Challenge
05:49:20, 05 Dec. (19411.520000) Starting CHAP authentication with peer
05:49:20, 05 Dec. (19411.520000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration ACK
05:49:20, 05 Dec. (19411.500000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
05:49:20, 05 Dec. (19411.500000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Reject
05:49:20, 05 Dec. (19411.500000) PPP LCP Send Configuration ACK
05:49:20, 05 Dec. (19411.500000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Request
05:49:20, 05 Dec. (19411.490000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
05:48:29, 05 Dec. (19360.480000) CWMP: session closed due to error: Could not resolve host
05:48:29, 05 Dec. (19360.460000) CWMP: Server URL: https://pbthdm.bt.mo; Connecting as user: ACS username
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Same disconnect this morning at 9:00am
Googling suggests this is a common problem - but I don't understand why the BT agent needs to disconnect/reconnect the PPOE when the f/w isn't actually updating (as I seem to have the latest f/w already).
09:00:44, 06 Dec. (59023.040000) CWMP: session completed successfully
09:00:44, 06 Dec. (59022.820000) CWMP: HTTP authentication success from https://pbthdm.bt.mo
09:00:39, 06 Dec. (59018.200000) CWMP: Server URL: https://pbthdm.bt.mo; Connecting as user: ACS username
09:00:39, 06 Dec. (59018.200000) CWMP: Session start now. Event code(s): '4 VALUE CHANGE'
09:00:37, 06 Dec. (59015.610000) WAN operating mode is VDSL
09:00:37, 06 Dec. (59015.610000) Last WAN operating mode was VDSL
09:00:36, 06 Dec. (59014.730000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration ACK
09:00:36, 06 Dec. (59014.710000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
09:00:36, 06 Dec. (59014.700000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration NAK
09:00:36, 06 Dec. (59014.700000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration ACK
09:00:36, 06 Dec. (59014.700000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration Request
09:00:35, 06 Dec. (59014.390000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
09:00:35, 06 Dec. (59014.390000) CHAP authentication successful
09:00:34, 06 Dec. (59012.780000) CHAP Receive Challenge
09:00:33, 06 Dec. (59012.090000) Starting CHAP authentication with peer
09:00:33, 06 Dec. (59012.090000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration ACK
09:00:33, 06 Dec. (59012.070000) PPP LCP Send Configuration ACK
09:00:33, 06 Dec. (59012.060000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
09:00:33, 06 Dec. (59012.060000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Request
09:00:31, 06 Dec. (59009.580000) CHAP Receive Challenge
09:00:31, 06 Dec. (59009.580000) Starting CHAP authentication with peer
09:00:31, 06 Dec. (59009.580000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration ACK
09:00:31, 06 Dec. (59009.560000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
09:00:31, 06 Dec. (59009.560000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Reject
09:00:31, 06 Dec. (59009.560000) PPP LCP Send Configuration ACK
09:00:31, 06 Dec. (59009.560000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Request
09:00:31, 06 Dec. (59009.550000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
09:00:29, 06 Dec. (59007.970000) CWMP: session closed due to error: Could not resolve host
09:00:29, 06 Dec. (59007.950000) CWMP: Server URL: https://pbthdm.bt.mo; Connecting as user: ACS username
09:00:29, 06 Dec. (59007.950000) CWMP: Session start now. Event code(s): '4 VALUE CHANGE'
09:00:29, 06 Dec. (59007.750000) CWMP: Initializing transaction for event code 4 VALUE CHANGE
09:00:22, 06 Dec. (59001.140000) PPP LCP Send Termination Request [User request]
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Could possibly be the modem quality.
The BT tester (meter) will have a well made, tested and calibrated front end (modem) which will include filter (high pass) and and terminations. Your modem will be produced on a production line and whilst the design works, keeping costs to a minimum will mean that tolerances can be wider, testing less (if any) and calibration unlikely.
Can you borrow the modem from your neighbour and see what it gives on your circuit and try your modem on his? See if the results are line dependent or modem dependent.
I have two "identical" modems here - on one the attainable upstream rate is around 26.5 Mbps and the other 22Mbps - they also have different downstream rates too.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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If he already had an ADSL faceplate fitted WHY change anything at all, mine was never changed, all my engineer did was check that it was wired up correctly, and I have had a perfect connection ever since
Bob WRBRIX
PN Unl.Fibre - Fritz! 7390 ~ Sync 79.99/20 Mb/s Avg 74.54/18.62 Mb/s @ 320m
DialUp to CIX, BT Home Highway to CIX, ADSL to Nildram, SKY & Be*Unlimited, Fibre to BT
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In theory yes a well working ADSL faceplate should be fine for VDSL2
Depends a lot on the local training, and what bosses have told the engineers.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I've still been getting these disconnects, I'm wondering if the f/w check is just part of the normal reconnect procedure - rather than actually causing the reconnect itself? Would the exchange tell my router to reconnect or just force the reconnect from the exchange end?
I've also put back my original ADSL faceplate and the upload speed is now about 3.5Mb, which is higher than it has been. Not sure if this will improve over time, but will wait and see what happens.
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Fingers crossed, but since changing back to my original filtered faceplate, I've not had any disconnects for about 26 hours.
This adds to my suspicion that there may have been a fault with the new filter the engineer installed.
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Although things had improved slightly with the original filtered faceplate, I still couldn't see the full connection stats from the home hub 5, so I purchased an HG612 modem from ebay for about £3.50! I have installed the unlocked f/w and can now collect full stats to see what my connection is up to. I have included some graphs here if people could comment? Interestingly, with this HG612 modem it is now showing a much higher max upload speed (more in line with expectations) although I also see the upload SNR has risen to 9db. Will my profile now increase over time to get closer to the max rate ?
Max: Upstream rate = 5924 Kbps, Downstream rate = 29516 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 3693 Kbps, Downstream rate = 25209 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.2 9.6
Attn(dB): 0.0 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.2 5.2
Downstream Upstream
Attenuation (dB):
Connection speed (kbps): 25209 3693
SNR margin (dB): 5.7 9.7
Power (dBm): 11.9 5.2
Interleave depth: 399 1
INP: 3.00 0
RSCorr/RS (%): 0.0917 0.0000
RSUnCorr/RS (%): 0.0017 0.0000
ES/hour: 11.5 0
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-puP_w1peEmg/UqiLE...
Edited by deleted (Wed 11-Dec-13 16:06:28)
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The band plan found under Telnet data ¦ pbParams may shed more light on the connection. Looks like DLM will raise your upstream given time.
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Here that output:
xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 5947 Kbps, Downstream rate = 30036 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 3693 Kbps, Downstream rate = 25209 Kbps
Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959)
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate: 5947 kbps 30036 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power: 5.2 dBm 11.9 dBm
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 6.2 52.4 64.8 N/A 22.7 62.6 0.1
Signal Attenuation(dB): 6.2 52.2 N/A N/A 22.7 62.6 N/A
SNR Margin(dB): 11.0 9.6 N/A N/A 6.3 6.8 N/A
TX Power(dBm): 5.2 4.8 N/A N/A 11.6 4.2 N/A
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Well the connection seems to be running nicely on this Huawei modem. I woke up this morning to find my upload had increased to 5Mbps (still showing a max of 6Mbps) and the SNR had also dropped back down to 6db. I think I'm on a ECI cabinet and people say you should match the modem type to the cabinet, but for me on my longer line (around 1km) it seems to have worked out better the other way around. Will monitor over the coming days, but at least I'm now getting slightly more than the estimates BT originally stated.
Can I assume the 'max' up/down speeds would be equivalent to what the BT engineer originally got on his meter? (he originally showed 30Mbps down, 6Mbps up).
xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 2
Max: Upstream rate = 6018 Kbps, Downstream rate = 29484 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 4996 Kbps, Downstream rate = 25269 Kbps
Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959)
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate: 6018 kbps 29484 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power: 5.0 dBm 12.0 dBm
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 6.1 52.3 64.9 N/A 22.7 62.6 0.1
Signal Attenuation(dB): 6.1 52.1 N/A N/A 22.7 62.6 N/A
SNR Margin(dB): 6.6 6.7 N/A N/A 6.1 6.3 N/A
TX Power(dBm): 5.2 4.6 N/A N/A 11.5 4.3 N/A
#
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The band plan shows the upper frequencies are attenuated too much to be useful, probably as a result of a long line or aluminium between you and the cabinet.
I don't think it really matters about matching the manufacturers of the cab and modem. Anyway, the stats are more useful IMO.
It's looking good 
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Thanks Batboy.
I'm probably approaching 1100m to be honest, so I'm happy If I can hold somewhere around these current speeds (about 10 times faster than I was getting on ADSL!)
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Assuming you have used Asbokid's original unlocking firmware, you are likely to see the band plans change in a few days, when the HG612's firmware is remotely updated.
This is from a HG612 with remotely updated firmware, also connected to an ECI DSLAM like your connection:-
| Text | 1
23
45
67
89
1011
1213
1415
1617
1819
2021
2223
2425
| xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY statusStatus: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 755 Kbps, Downstream rate = 18260 KbpsBearer: 0, Upstream rate = 718 Kbps, Downstream rate = 17982 Kbps
Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (6,31) (882,1193) (1984,2770) DS: (33,857) (1218,1959) (2795,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band PlanUS: (6,31) (882,1193)
DS: (67,857) VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate: 755 kbps 18260 kbpsActual Aggregate Tx Power: 5.6 dBm 11.0 dBm
==================================================================================== VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 8.3 68.3 66.9 N/A N/A 27.7 85.2 N/A Signal Attenuation(dB): 8.3 65.7 N/A N/A N/A 36.3 N/A N/A
SNR Margin(dB): 5.5 5.4 N/A N/A N/A 3.8 N/A N/A TX Power(dBm): 1.9 3.3 N/A N/A N/A 11.0 N/A N/A
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From memory, that connection is around 1600m from the cabinet. Note the really poor US sync speed & attainable rate.
My connection is between 1000m & 1100m (Huawei DSLAM) & these are my latest stats:-
| Text | 1
23
45
67
89
1011
1213
1415
1617
1819
2021
2223
2425
| xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY statusStatus: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 4892 Kbps, Downstream rate = 22908 KbpsBearer: 0, Upstream rate = 4877 Kbps, Downstream rate = 20695 Kbps
Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2782) DS: (33,859) (1216,1961) (2793,3970)
Medley Phase (Final) Band PlanUS: (7,32) (871,1200)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1846) VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate: 4892 kbps 22908 kbpsActual Aggregate Tx Power: 6.7 dBm 12.7 dBm
==================================================================================== VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 8.1 53.5 N/A N/A N/A 21.7 65.7 N/A Signal Attenuation(dB): 8.1 52.4 N/A N/A N/A 30.5 65.4 N/A
SNR Margin(dB): 6.2 6.2 N/A N/A N/A 5.7 5.8 N/A TX Power(dBm): -0.8 5.9 N/A N/A N/A 11.7 5.9 N/A
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My connection was able to achieve around 30Mbps / 5Mbps for a few months, until it gradually deteriorated, increased crosstalk due to more users being connected being the likely cause.
Edited by deleted (Fri 13-Dec-13 19:04:39)
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Hi Bald Eagle,
I used the unlock guide on Kitz forum - assume this is the one you are referring to?
I had seen mention of a new f/w - does this bring any improvements/degradation?
Seems we have pretty similar stats then, with similar distance? The BT estimates were about 20Mbps down and 4.5MBps up - I've assumed this is worst case when more people are connected to FTTC service, even so its still a lot faster than I was getting on ADSL.
I've read that vectoring may help us on longer lines - is this something BT are likely to rollout and what kind of improvements could we realistically expect?
Thanks,
Tim.
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Hi Bald Eagle,
I used the unlock guide on Kitz forum - assume this is the one you are referring to?
Yep. That's the one.
I had seen mention of a new f/w - does this bring any improvements/degradation?
It does seem to slightly improve performance/stability on some longer lines
Seems we have pretty similar stats then, with similar distance? The BT estimates were about 20Mbps down and 4.5MBps up - I've assumed this is worst case when more people are connected to FTTC service, even so its still a lot faster than I was getting on ADSL.
Pre-install, back in 2011, my DS estimate was 14.6 Mbps.
I achieved sync speeds of around 34 Mbps & throughput of around 32 Mbps for the first month, until 'something' caused me to lose both telephone & broadband for 4 days.
The connection was 'repaired' but 11 months of instability & low speeds ensued.
When that was finally repaired, I was able to achieve around 30 Mbps for around 7 months.
During those 7 months, estimates increased to 24 Mbps & then to 30 Mbps.
Starting from January 2013, speeds have deteriorated in steps to the current 20 Mbps (the line has been physically checked by a number of engineers, so it is assumed to be crosstalk as more users are connected).
My connection's estimated speeds are now:-
| Text | 1
23
45
67
| . Downstream Upstream High Low High Low
Range A (Clean) 30.9 22.2 7.3 5.6
Range B (Impacted) 24.4 12.8 6.6 3.6
. |
It is still a lot better than the less than 1 Mbps I could achieve when on ADSL.
I've read that vectoring may help us on longer lines - is this something BT are likely to rollout and what kind of improvements could we realistically expect?
Vectoring is currently undergoing trials from a few selected cabinets.
At this stage it hasn't been confirmed that it will actually be rolled out, although we assume the modem firmware updates have been enacted in preparation for it.
I do hope vectoring is implemented as it does appear to be the only way to help reinstate higher speeds for users affected by crosstalk.
How much of an improvement it will make remains to be seen.
Edited by deleted (Mon 16-Dec-13 05:34:46)
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