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Standard User ansam
(learned) Wed 30-Apr-14 16:23:03
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Just had it installed


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Hello,

So just had the fibre installed (was a contractor M.J Quinn) and the guy didn't have a clue about the data extension kit. As I needed the modem to be upstairs he said he did it in a way that the master socket is now upstairs and he has now made the old master socket an extension.

Does this sound right?

-Sam
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 30-Apr-14 16:30:12
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: ansam] [link to this post]
 
It is possible to do this, if done right when you take apart the master as shown at http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/faceplate/ to reach the test socket then you should find the old master has stopped working.

The wiring for the old master should be on IDC connection shown by the red arrow in the last image on the above page.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User ansam
(learned) Wed 30-Apr-14 16:43:27
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Hello,

Thats good, I just thought it a bit strange he didn't know what the extension kit was and decided to go down this route instead (moving the master upstairs, making the old master an extension).

Regards,
Sam


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Standard User ansam
(learned) Wed 30-Apr-14 22:45:59
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: ansam] [link to this post]
 
Hello,

Here is a photo of what was the master socket (now the extension).

http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y388/samuelbarr/...

Thanks
Sam
Standard User ansam
(learned) Wed 30-Apr-14 22:48:17
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: ansam] [link to this post]
 
Hello,

Also done some speed tests.

No to very little network activity I am seeing:

50MB Download
16mb Upload

When wife was downloading on her phone from BBC iPlayer

31MB Download
7MB Upload.

Thanks
Sam
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Wed 30-Apr-14 22:50:29
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: ansam] [link to this post]
 
TBH I think that's a better solution than a data extension kit - as long as the cable is copper and twisted pair wink


______________________________________________________________________________________False_Authority_Syndrome__________________
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Wed 30-Apr-14 23:50:28
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: ansam] [link to this post]
 
It can be done but is certainly frowned upon.

Where did he tie up his horse?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User systemx
(experienced) Thu 01-May-14 01:09:32
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
It can be done but is certainly frowned upon.

Where did he tie up his horse?


Yes not good. I would remove the master socket board from what is now the extension socket (just unclip it ) so as not to double master the line.
Standard User ansam
(regular) Thu 01-May-14 08:11:00
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: systemx] [link to this post]
 
Hello,

I think I will just get onto plus.net and tell them I am not happy with the way its been wired up.

Thanks
Sam
Standard User ansam
(regular) Thu 01-May-14 08:26:06
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: ansam] [link to this post]
 
Hello,

Seems to be a lot of conflicting information about what is the wrong/right way to do it (I know its not that black and white).

https://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Infinity-Speed-Connec...
Standard User systemx
(experienced) Thu 01-May-14 08:40:55
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: ansam] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ansam:
Hello,

I think I will just get onto plus.net and tell them I am not happy with the way its been wired up.

Thanks
Sam


Personally I have no problem with the method used by the contractor, but it is bad practice to double master a line which is what he/she has done.
However it's easy to put right yourself, You have already opened the "extension" to post the photo, all that is required is to unclip the master socket board from the back plate, reassemble and the job is done.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Thu 01-May-14 08:52:38
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: systemx] [link to this post]
 
Except there will then be no ring signal frown


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Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Thu 01-May-14 08:53:42
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: ansam] [link to this post]
 
A data extension kit will add a bridge tap to your line frown


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Standard User ansam
(regular) Thu 01-May-14 08:56:16
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Except there will then be no ring signal frown


Hello

So leave the backplate in place?

Thanks
Sam
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 01-May-14 08:57:48
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Really?

My answer is no if installed in conjunction with a filtered faceplate it does not. The data extension kit is really just a longer cable to the modem, i.e. like replacing the standard 2m RJ11 lead with a 30m long one. Any downside will be the increase in metres

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User systemx
(experienced) Thu 01-May-14 09:04:43
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Except there will then be no ring signal frown


This had occurred to me. However that is not an excuse to double master a line, the contractor should have checked if this was required and if so clipped out the service resistor from the extension, alone with any overvolt protection, this would leave the ring cap in place but not directly across the line pair.

With luck the phone used with the socket will not require a ring line.
Standard User systemx
(experienced) Thu 01-May-14 09:07:53
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: ansam] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ansam:
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Except there will then be no ring signal frown


Hello

So leave the backplate in place?

Thanks
Sam


Check the phone rings, remove the board and check it still rings, if it does all is well, if not put the board back.
Standard User systemx
(experienced) Thu 01-May-14 09:54:01
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
A data extension kit will add a bridge tap to your line frown


An extension on the unfiltered line will act as a bridge tap if it is connected to the unfiltered IDCs on the faceplate, but the enduser decides to use the socket on the face plate and leaves the extension connected.

If the extension is used then all is well (you can see why a plug-in data extension prevents this sort of thing happening)
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Thu 01-May-14 10:13:50
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Re: Just had it installed *DELETED*


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by MHC
Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Thu 01-May-14 10:26:10
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
It can be done but is certainly frowned upon.

Where did he tie up his horse?
Interesting. This is what the BT engineer did when I had Homehighway installed. The same thing was done for my friend across town. I thought it was standard practice - they asked where you wanted the box to be and they also installed a new master. Presumably because you were getting a second analogue line.

It did cause confusion when I had FTTC installed though. The engineer wasted half an hour trying to work out what was 'wrong' with my wiring. I kept telling him about the relocated master but he didn't seem to believe me(*). Eventually he worked out that he hadn't activated the port on the cabinet but he broke and remade the connections outside the house three times in the end. All completely unnecessary if he'd just listened to me.

I don't think the first engineer ever did anything to my old master though. I think I just have a cable running up to my study then back down from there to the old master. I know that phones go dead if you take the faceplate off the box in the study although I don't have one plugged into the old master so don't know about that.

(*)In that unstated, arrogant way that so many engineers(**) adopt.
(**)Of course as a software engineer I'd never do that wink

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Edited by Andrue (Thu 01-May-14 10:32:12)

Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Thu 01-May-14 10:36:24
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: ansam] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ansam:
Hello,

Here is a photo of what was the master socket (now the extension).

http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y388/samuelbarr/...

Thanks
Sam
I think that's the same as mine except that my 'patch' is in the cables on the outside of the property. Slightly odd to put it there in one way though. My property has additional cables supplying it (eight I think(*)) so the outside cover plate would struggle to fit flush against the wall as it is.

(*)Actually that suggests the HH engineer might have done something with my old master. I remember now that he released the cables from inside then removed the cover outside and was horrified to see 8 wire bundles fall out in front of him. Took him quite a while to find the right pair smile

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Thu 01-May-14 10:40:18
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
If he made the original master socket an extension without any additional wiring then it will be a case of back wiring from the new master. That is certainly frowned upon and BT Technicians are taught NOT to do that - except in exceptional circumstances and this is not one of them. This case is just laziness and cutting corners.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
ISP Representative thatadamwalker
(isp) Thu 01-May-14 10:45:12
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: ansam] [link to this post]
 
Hi ansam,

want to drop me a PM with your username and I'll make sure we pass on some feedback about the quality of the work carried out.

Adam Walker
Plusnet Support Team
Service Status :: RSS :: Email
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User ansam
(regular) Thu 01-May-14 10:51:42
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: thatadamwalker] [link to this post]
 
Hello,

So based on the information we know should I consider asking PN to book an engineer to redo the wiring?

Thanks
Sam
Standard User systemx
(experienced) Thu 01-May-14 10:51:58
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
If he made the original master socket an extension without any additional wiring then it will be a case of back wiring from the new master. That is certainly frowned upon and BT Technicians are taught NOT to do that - except in exceptional circumstances and this is not one of them. This case is just laziness and cutting corners.


The reason is it leads to network and customer wiring in the same cable. The politics of who should pay should the cable be damaged is something to behold!

It's often done where an end-user objects to another cable nailed round their door frames, where the existing one is blended in, covered in years of paint.
Standard User systemx
(experienced) Thu 01-May-14 10:55:02
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: ansam] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ansam:
Hello,

So based on the information we know should I consider asking PN to book an engineer to redo the wiring?

Thanks
Sam


If you do not mind another cable run through your home, go ahead.

If it were me I would leave well alone after attending to the "extension" socket.
Standard User ansam
(regular) Thu 01-May-14 11:01:37
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: systemx] [link to this post]
 
Hello,

Okay so recommendation is just to remove the backplate? and the current wiring is fit for purpose (won't affect FTTC performance/speeds?)

So this is the back board I should remove?
http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y388/samuelbarr/...

Thanks
Sam
Standard User systemx
(experienced) Thu 01-May-14 11:10:48
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: ansam] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ansam:
Hello,

Okay so recommendation is just to remove the backplate? and the current wiring is fit for purpose (won't affect FTTC performance/speeds?)

So this is the back board I should remove?
http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y388/samuelbarr/...

Thanks
Sam


That's it. just unscrew the back plate as you did to take the original photo and unclip the master board. do check that the phone you have pluged into that socket still rings after you have removed the master board.

It takes much longer to write this than it does to do it.
Standard User ansam
(regular) Thu 01-May-14 11:44:17
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: systemx] [link to this post]
 
Hello,

Okay thanks I will do it later tonight.

Currently I am doing about 72mb on an estimates 79mb, I assume that probably about the best it can get?

Thanks
Sam
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Thu 01-May-14 12:39:31
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: ansam] [link to this post]
 
I would be inclined to leave it alone as I can't see another master socket making any difference at all.


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Standard User ansam
(regular) Thu 01-May-14 12:47:55
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
I would be inclined to leave it alone as I can't see another master socket making any difference at all.


Hello,

Yes 72mb seems to be very good so not going to mess with other than to take the back plate off the old master socket.

Thanks everyone for all of the advice and input.

-Sam

Edited by ansam (Thu 01-May-14 12:48:21)

Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Thu 01-May-14 14:44:14
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: systemx] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by systemx:
In reply to a post by MHC:
If he made the original master socket an extension without any additional wiring then it will be a case of back wiring from the new master. That is certainly frowned upon and BT Technicians are taught NOT to do that - except in exceptional circumstances and this is not one of them. This case is just laziness and cutting corners.


The reason is it leads to network and customer wiring in the same cable. The politics of who should pay should the cable be damaged is something to behold!

It's often done where an end-user objects to another cable nailed round their door frames, where the existing one is blended in, covered in years of paint.
In my case the new cable goes round the outside of the house. Perhaps there's two cables one up, one down but that sounds unlikely knowing BT. I'll check when I get home smile

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Edited by Andrue (Thu 01-May-14 14:45:36)

Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Thu 01-May-14 20:14:22
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Andrue:
In my case the new cable goes round the outside of the house. Perhaps there's two cables one up, one down but that sounds unlikely knowing BT. I'll check when I get home smile
Lol. Sorta. Gotta love the phone wiring for this house. Three cables come out from behind the entry cover and go around a corner and up the wall. Two of them go into a hole half way up - they are feeding what I can only describe as a 'double master' socket in the second bedroom. It's a twin socket with a horizontal cut along the middle. Curiously it's marked up with what seems to be a range of numbers:

705324 - 705327 (no, not my current number <g>). Can two sockets really provide four numbers?

Anyway the third cable runs along the roof line, around another corner and down to feed the only active master in my study. Presumably one pair goes up to the new master, and the second pair connects back to the original master. So it's dodgy wiring as suggested :-/

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Edited by Andrue (Thu 01-May-14 20:20:23)

Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Fri 02-May-14 08:16:48
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: ansam] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ansam:
Currently I am doing about 72mb on an estimates 79mb, I assume that probably about the best it can get?
Most likely. It'll probably fall a bit further over the next six months as more people get the service on your cabinet. Mine dropped from an attainable of 92 to its current sync of 69.

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Edited by Andrue (Fri 02-May-14 08:17:10)

Standard User systemx
(experienced) Fri 02-May-14 09:10:47
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Andrue:
In reply to a post by Andrue:
In my case the new cable goes round the outside of the house. Perhaps there's two cables one up, one down but that sounds unlikely knowing BT. I'll check when I get home smile
Lol. Sorta. Gotta love the phone wiring for this house. Three cables come out from behind the entry cover and go around a corner and up the wall. Two of them go into a hole half way up - they are feeding what I can only describe as a 'double master' socket in the second bedroom. It's a twin socket with a horizontal cut along the middle. Curiously it's marked up with what seems to be a range of numbers:

705324 - 705327 (no, not my current number <g>). Can two sockets really provide four numbers?

Anyway the third cable runs along the roof line, around another corner and down to feed the only active master in my study. Presumably one pair goes up to the new master, and the second pair connects back to the original master. So it's dodgy wiring as suggested :-/


In other countries which have a more sane approach to demarcation between network and customers wiring, there are things called NIDs (Network Interface Device) often on the outside of the building. Network operators responsibility ends at the NID and the customer is free to to do their own wiring or employ someone to do it for them. Each NID is provided with a phone socket to allow the customer to check for network or home wiring faults.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Fri 02-May-14 09:48:59
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: systemx] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by systemx:
In other countries which have a more sane approach to demarcation between network and customers wiring, there are things called NIDs (Network Interface Device) often on the outside of the building. Network operators responsibility ends at the NID and the customer is free to to do their own wiring or employ someone to do it for them. Each NID is provided with a phone socket to allow the customer to check for network or home wiring faults.


Remember, BT did this with the Grey External NTEs and customer started whinging and whining about it. Probably because it meant they would have to do something themselves and have no-one to blame when they got it wrong.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User systemx
(experienced) Fri 02-May-14 09:56:33
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
In reply to a post by systemx:
In other countries which have a more sane approach to demarcation between network and customers wiring, there are things called NIDs (Network Interface Device) often on the outside of the building. Network operators responsibility ends at the NID and the customer is free to to do their own wiring or employ someone to do it for them. Each NID is provided with a phone socket to allow the customer to check for network or home wiring faults.


Remember, BT did this with the Grey External NTEs and customer started whinging and whining about it. Probably because it meant they would have to do something themselves and have no-one to blame when they got it wrong.


Indeed. But why Openreach should provide an external NTE without a socket for the customer to use (as opposed to the socket it did have) was beyond me.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 02-May-14 11:51:47
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Re: Just had it installed


[re: systemx] [link to this post]
 
That was the only really issue with the external NTE, and obvious as soon as we heard about them. No test socket for the end user. Lunacy! Even the BT Phone book tells us to try the test socket before reporting a phone fault frown.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
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Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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