Which exchange is the FTTC linked to ?

I would like to clear up some confusion over the FTTC cabinets that have recently been installed in our local villages of Freeland and Long Hanborough and possibly North Leigh although I have not looked there. All are in the Witney area (01993 xxxxxx.

The Freeland exchange is local loop unbundled (LLU) and as we understand it TalkTalk are the main LLU company. The Freeland exchange code is SMFRD (01993 88xxxx), see..

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/SMFRD

There is some confusion over which exchange these new FTTC cabinets are connected to. One of the Open Reach engineers says these new cabinets (in my case cabinet 3) is connected directly to the main exchange in Witney, but another advises that the cabinet is routed via the Freeland exchange SMFRD.

Discussion is here......

http://digitalhanborough.net/bt-infinity-coming-to-l...

The question is: Which exchange is it?

To me it is relevant because if the new FTTC cabinets are not from the Freeland exchange but are connected directly to the Witney exchange, then I will switch from TalkTalk to BT to have the extra free benefits of BT Sport on my SKY Sports subscription.

I'm not sure from your post which exchange you are actually connected to.

I assume you are on full LLU (MPF) with TalkTalk, where your phone number will not work in this checker.

If it does work in there, you are on partial LLU (SMPF). If it doesn't, please use the Address option, (not the pure postcode option which can be unreliable), and post the result. The cabinet line (with your address edited out), and the contents of the table. The guff before and after doesn't matter.

Basically in your case I don't think it matters where the FTTC cabinets are fed from. It is frequently not from the "phone" exchange. I don't see how it affects your decision about whether or not to switch to BT Retail from TalkTalk.

Bear in mind that BT Infinity will almost certainly be far more expensive than TalkTalk Fibre, and that difference could be greater that the saving in getting BT Sport free. BT are also getting a lot of complaints recently about the Home Hub 5 they issue to many new customers, and quite a few on these forums are buying something else. Another (one-of) substantial cost.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 12-May-14 12:26:28)

In reply to a post by GunRunner:

To me it is relevant because if the new FTTC cabinets are not from the Freeland exchange but are connected directly to the Witney exchange, then I will switch from TalkTalk to BT to have the extra free benefits of BT Sport on my SKY Sports subscription.

There is no such thing as LLU where FTTC is concerned. There are some different ways for an ISP to get data from your exchange to their servers but they are unimportant as far as availability is concerned. If your cabinet is enabled you can sign up with any ISP offering an FTTC product.

Edited by Andrue (Mon 12-May-14 12:57:12)

In reply to a post by Andrue:

There is no such thing as LLU where FTTC is concerned.

There is.

The Equivalence of input (EoI) regulation of Generic Ethernet Access (GEA) fits within the regulatory model. It is the point of regulation in the NGA value chain which ensures vertical non-discrimination within the BT organisation. GEA is the Network Access service by which BT Group makes its Next Generation Access (NGA) investment available to all CPs in an equivalent and pro-competitive manner. BT�s retail offerings in the Super Fast Broadband (SFBB) market are based on the Openreach EoI input (GEA) enabling all CPs to fully �replicate� the BT Retail product if they so choose.

This is also referred to as VULA or Virtual Unbundled Local Access by Ofcom

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I'm not sure from your post which exchange you are actually connected to.

I assume you are on full LLU (MPF) with TalkTalk, where your phone number will not work in this checker.

If it does work in there, you are on partial LLU (SMPF). If it doesn't, please use the Address option, (not the pure postcode option which can be unreliable), and post the result. The cabinet line (with your address edited out), and the contents of the table. The guff before and after doesn't matter.

Basically in your case I don't think it matters where the FTTC cabinets are fed from. It is frequently not from the "phone" exchange. I don't see how it affects your decision about whether or not to switch to BT Retail from TalkTalk.

Bear in mind that BT Infinity will almost certainly be far more expensive than TalkTalk Fibre, and that difference could be greater that the saving in getting BT Sport free. BT are also getting a lot of complaints recently about the Home Hub 5 they issue to many new customers, and quite a few on these forums are buying something else. Another (one-of) substantial cost.

Sorry RobertoS ..

1. I thought I had made it clear that I was connected to the Freeland exchange with me on TalkTalk because that is the only exchange available to the villages.

2. If a subscriber uses TalkTalk and he is very close to this exchange he can get up to the maximum of available download speed. I am 1.7 km from it and I used to get 15.19 Mbps last year, then it dropped down to around 13.32 Mbps now it is around 11.5 Mbps. I assume this is because the capacity is being used up by more people using broadband in the local vicinity. By the way, I have fitted a filtered faceplate and the appropriate wiring to my own Netgear DGND 3700 and along with this my TalkTalk line has been tweaked for maximum gaming speed (not interleaved) and accessing a gaming server as an administrator in Buffalo in the US.

3. As I understand it, if the subscriber is with any other ISP, no matter how close he is to the exchange then TalkTalk only allow up to 8Mbps as they are the sole LLU. I did check this out because I carry out wiring for free to the locals as I am retired (ex IT) old geezer with time on his hands. Every time I put in filtered faceplates for Sky and other subscribers I find the limitation. I also asked Sky (I am a sky subscriber - not broadband) and they said the maximum they were allowed to give me was 2Mbps. This was some years ago, so it might be out of date.

4. Anyway, I digress. The reason we wanted to know to which exchange the cabinets were connected to was for interest sake and to complete the local discussion on the Long Hanborough website quoted above.

5. I had already used the link to check my line and as you will know it does not find any record because I am on TalkTalk. The address part worked and says......

Featured Products

Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Downstream Range(Mbps)

Availability Date

High Low High Low
FTTC Range A (Clean) 80 77 20 19.9 -- Available
FTTC Range B (Impacted) 80 67.3 20 17.9 -- Available

WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 17 -- 10 to 19.5 Available
WBC ADSL 2+ Annex M Up to 17 Up to 1.5 10 to 19.5 Available
ADSL Max Up to 7.5 -- 6.5 to 8 Available
WBC Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available
Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available
Other Offerings
Copper Multicast -- -- -- Available

PLEASE NOTE.

1. The "Available" is incorrect. I have read somewhere that 14th June 2014 is the go live date, and another one states the 30th June.

2. I am around 200 metres from Cabinet 3 that the above quotes and it says Freeland exchange. So it is the Freeland exchange and not the Witney exchange!

Edited by deleted (Mon 12-May-14 13:42:27)

Both Witney and Freeland offer TalkTalk LLU services, so don't see what the issue is or the reasoning that is going on.

The telephone part of your telephone line does NOT change when you connect to FTTC, i.e. if on full LLU it will still go back to the same telephone exchange as it does not.

In reply to a post by GunRunner:

5. The address part worked and says......

Featured Products

Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)
...
...
...

You have deleted the heading which says which exchange and which cabinet you are connected to.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by GunRunner:

5. The address part worked and says......

Featured Products

Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)
...
...
...

You have deleted the heading which says which exchange and which cabinet you are connected to.

I am around 200 metres from Cabinet 3 that the above quotes and it says Freeland exchange. So it is the Freeland exchange and NOT the Witney exchange that the new FTTC Cabinet is connected to?!

I don't understand why you think this is relevant?

To me it is relevant because if the new FTTC cabinets are not from the Freeland exchange but are connected directly to the Witney exchange, then I will switch from TalkTalk to BT to have the extra free benefits of BT Sport on my SKY Sports subscription.

Can't you switch to BT regardless of which exchange the FTTC cab is connected to?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

I don't understand why you think this is relevant?

To me it is relevant because if the new FTTC cabinets are not from the Freeland exchange but are connected directly to the Witney exchange, then I will switch from TalkTalk to BT to have the extra free benefits of BT Sport on my SKY Sports subscription.

Can't you switch to BT regardless of which exchange the FTTC cab is connected to?

1. I could but I have about 6 months of my contract to go with TalkTalk and would have to pay a penalty to switch. I also assumed ( perhaps wrongly) that if TalkTalk were the only LLU in the Freeland exchange that they might restrict others ISPs speed. Perhaps not, but if you read my other posts above, they throttled people on the ADSL2+ links. Looks like the older practice by the only LLU (TalkTalk) of restricting other ISPs does not hold true.

Freeland cabinets go back to Whitney so that is where the CP handover is and where Bt wholesale, Sky , Talktalk will need to connect to provide you FTTC. Hope that helps

TalkTalk CANNOT restrict providers on the WBC network because they have no control over that network which is ran by BT Wholesale.

There was probably a time where BT Wholesale DSLAM only offers ADSL speeds, but TalKTalk was offering ADSL2+. The BT Wholesale service has upgraded to ADSL2+ Now.

On FTTC it doesn't matter which provider you go with, you will get the same sync speeds. As MrS says TalkTalk have never been able to restrict others on an exchange unless those others were using TalkTalk as a wholesaler (which people like Sky do not do - Sky use BT wholesale or their own LLU kit, but Sky in a non-Sky LLU exchange is rubbish regardless of whether TT are there or not).

The exchange you connect to is irrelevant to your potential of getting BT Sport. As the TalkTalk LLU service is not altered by FTTC or which exchange FTTC connects to then it would not even be a basis for breaking contract - they can continue to provide your current service no matter where FTTC is provided from.

So, you either cancel the TT contract and go with BT to get sport, keep the current TT contract or upgrade your TT to FTTC which will probably extend your contract to at least 18 months meaning even longer before you could get BT sport via the BT Infinity package.

Edited by ian72 (Mon 12-May-14 15:28:06)

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

There was probably a time where BT Wholesale DSLAM only offers ADSL speeds, but TalKTalk was offering ADSL2+. The BT Wholesale service has upgraded to ADSL2+ Now.

Ah ha! Thanks for that information. That clears everything up.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by Andrue:

There is no such thing as LLU where FTTC is concerned.

There is.

The Equivalence of input (EoI) regulation of Generic Ethernet Access (GEA) fits within the regulatory model. It is the point of regulation in the NGA value chain which ensures vertical non-discrimination within the BT organisation. GEA is the Network Access service by which BT Group makes its Next Generation Access (NGA) investment available to all CPs in an equivalent and pro-competitive manner. BT�s retail offerings in the Super Fast Broadband (SFBB) market are based on the Openreach EoI input (GEA) enabling all CPs to fully �replicate� the BT Retail product if they so choose.

This is also referred to as VULA or Virtual Unbundled Local Access by Ofcom

That's why I said there were different ways of getting the data out of the exchange. I don't think the OP needs the complete technical breakdown so I glossed over that. It's irrelevant information that would just cause the OP more confusion (born out I think by the way the thread has taken so long to get to the same answer I gave).

In these cases it's often simpler to answer their question. The OP doesn't need to know about GEA or any other technical [censored].

Edited by Andrue (Mon 12-May-14 18:03:57)

Hi

I live in North Leigh and I am with Aol/talktalk.

Aol dont do fibre so I contacted their sister company talktalk who told me I could only have fibre optic if I changed my phone number (seems strange)

So I phoned Bt who said I could have fibre and did not have to change my phone number.

The only thing I can think is if I get my fibre from the Witney exchange I need a new phone number as my phone line goes to the Freeland exchange.

If I use the Freeland exchange I can only get Fibe Optic from Bt as the GEA cable has not been fitted for
talktalk as yet.

Can anyone shed any light on this???
Thanks
Steve.

it will be more than likely that currently your aol service provided is only partial LLU, so SMPF, broadband only, TT will have probably said a number change was needed as they would fully LLU you, phone & broadband , The min term for FTTC is 12mths, + installation fee,
Some are currently doing free installs Aquiss is one Zen is another, Or you could go with BT or one of the other big ISP's but contract lengths tend to be 18mths min term, with a reduced install fee, FTTC only, bundle the line rental and the install charges are waived , Suprisingly a lot of ISP's are still charging an install fee for FTTC to FTTC migrations

Thanks for the quick reply.

Freeland have only just gone live and I have been desperate to change to fiibre broadband.
But bt are to expensive I just assumed once the exchange was live I could go with any isp.
I am still not sure where the fibre is coming from we have two cabinets in North Leigh but I have seen the openreach van laying cables from Witney then to Freeland and then on to Long Hanbourgh.

Cheers
Steve.

In reply to a post by Navarre:

Aol dont do fibre so I contacted their sister company talktalk who told me I could only have fibre optic if I changed my phone number (seems strange)

Very strange indeed. I can't remember ever hearing of that before. Perhaps their advisor was wrong.

So I phoned Bt who said I could have fibre and did not have to change my phone number.

Quite. The TT answer may be correct, but I strongly doubt it.

The only thing I can think is if I get my fibre from the Witney exchange I need a new phone number as my phone line goes to the Freeland exchange.

No. That is not the case. As a few of us have stated earlier in the thread. The fact the fibre is terminated at a different exchange is completely irrelevant and transparent to the end user. Your phone exchange and number are not affected.

It happens at hundreds of exchanges.

If I use the Freeland exchange I can only get Fibe Optic from Bt as the GEA cable has not been fitted for
talktalk as yet.

If the fibre is terminated at Witney, that is where the GEA links are. There will never be any at Freeland.

TalkTalk and Sky, (the only two providers other than BT Wholesale that have GEA links), are often a couple of weeks or so behind BT Wholesale getting a link installed at the exchange.

You do not have to have fibre from BT Retail or TalkTalk. The fact that BT Wholesale are there means nearly every ISP in the country can provide a service. Just like ADSLx.

For instance, I have had a fibre connection from IDNet and now Plusnet.

Thanks for this!

It looks like I need to wait a couple of weeks and try again we only went live on friday 9th.
I want to go with TT as they are the cheapest that I know of

Only one other thing
My Son who lives in Witney and is with TT fibre must have a Gea cable fitted
So does this mean that another gea cable would be needed for the fibre coming to North Leigh.

Sorry to be a pain but this is new to me.

Steve.

In reply to a post by Navarre:

Hi

I live in North Leigh and I am with Aol/talktalk.

Aol dont do fibre so I contacted their sister company talktalk who told me I could only have fibre optic if I changed my phone number (seems strange)

So I phoned Bt who said I could have fibre and did not have to change my phone number.

The only thing I can think is if I get my fibre from the Witney exchange I need a new phone number as my phone line goes to the Freeland exchange.

If I use the Freeland exchange I can only get Fibe Optic from Bt as the GEA cable has not been fitted for
talktalk as yet.

Can anyone shed any light on this???
Thanks
Steve.

Steve

I see we are neighbours. Put your Address into this checker.....

http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/

I am reliably informed above that it will tell you which cabinet you will be connected to and which exchange it is connected to.

Edited by deleted (Mon 12-May-14 23:38:16)

The checker will tell you your cabinet number and the exchange that cabinet is connected to for the voice service. The online checker does not tell you which exchange the fibre goes to, as there is no need for people to worry about this.

The fibre becomes available to all providers at the same time, but some order and get the GEA cable link ordered sooner than others. This GEA cable link is ONLY needed at the handover node which is the exchange the fibre goes to.

Nice one!

Cabinet 6 on the Freeland Exchange

Thanks......

In reply to a post by Navarre:

Thanks for the quick reply.

Freeland have only just gone live and I have been desperate to change to fiibre broadband.
But bt are to expensive I just assumed once the exchange was live I could go with any isp.
I am still not sure where the fibre is coming from we have two cabinets in North Leigh but I have seen the openreach van laying cables from Witney then to Freeland and then on to Long Hanbourgh.

Cheers
Steve.

Steve.

See my previous post about checking your address against the line checker. When you check your address it will tell you which exchange and which cabinet you will be connected to. It will also tell you it is available. As far as I can ascertain, Freeland has not yet gone live with FTTC!. Unless BT have done so and not TalkTalk. I have asked in Freeland and no one who is with BT has had any letter about this. This all gets confusing. It was only two weeks ago that they connected the power to the cabinets and I am sure I read somewhere on one web link that 15th June was the going live date. Then later on I found another site that stated 30th June.

All confusing to say the least. I have been with TalkTalk for many years and if BT infinity is a lot dearer, I will bite the bullet and stay with TalkTalk. I will trawl through the TalkTalk forum and see if I can find anything out.

I think between us we may have overloaded you will similar information. Re:-

I am reliably informed above that it will tell you which cabinet you will be connected to and which exchange it is connected to

what MrSaffron says is correct. The checker tells you your phone exchange and cabinet number, (FTTC cabinets are not numbered but are always connected to a phone cabinet).

The FTTC estimates it gives you are for the speed you will receive from the FTTC cabinet connected to your phone cabinet. The fibre cabinet is supplied quite independently of the phone cabinet, with a linking cable installed between them.

More information on this page, which may need a few updates but explains the basic setup.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

The checker will tell you your cabinet number and the exchange that cabinet is connected to for the voice service. The online checker does not tell you which exchange the fibre goes to, as there is no need for people to worry about this.

The fibre becomes available to all providers at the same time, but some order and get the GEA cable link ordered sooner than others. This GEA cable link is ONLY needed at the handover node which is the exchange the fibre goes to.

OK Thanks. The cabinet numbers we are all quoting in Long Hanborough, Freeland and North Leigh in this thread are the new cabinets which have just been installed. Cabinet 3 in Freeland and Cabinet 6 in North Leigh are all brand new and have been installed in the last 6 to 8 weeks.

Did they replace old, smaller ones? Are they of a kind pictured on this page?

If so, are there any Huawei or ECI cabinets, as shown on that page, within 50 metres or so of them?

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 12-May-14 23:35:16)

In reply to a post by Navarre:

Nice one!

Cabinet 6 on the Freeland Exchange

Thanks......

I have sent you a Private Message.

Hi GunRunner

I have also found this very confusing I spoke to Bt who said I could have fast fiibre now
I also spoke to talktalk who said they had to fit there equipment to the exchange before I could have fibre (I think this is the Gea cable) I read that this costs approx £2000.00 and they wait a few weeks after the exchange has gone live before they connect it just incase the live date gets delayed

Steve.

It could be that the fibre arriving at Witney from Freeland and these others terminates on different Openreach kit in Witney exchange from the stuff the Witney-local fibre does.

If so, to my mind that would explain a new GEA link needed by TT even though they have Witney users already on fibre.

BT Wholesale are nearly always first to get their GEA links installed. In effect, that's what makes an exchange be listed as enabled.

Hi RobertoS

I believe they are the Huawei cabinets have a look (http://www.northleigh.org/) there is a picture of one on gregs site.

Off to bed now will check back for any replys in the morning
Thanks again for all your help!

Steve.

The fibre handover node can handle a good number of exchanges with a mixture of FTTP and FTTP

http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/fibre-cornwall/pages/im...

Is Falmouth when it was handling 8 other exchanges. The GEA cable links are the fibres on the left of the cabinet.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Did they replace old, smaller ones? Are they of a kind pictured on this page?

If so, are there any Huawei or ECI cabinets, as shown on that page, within 50 metres or so of them?

The new one in Freeland is the Huawei FTTC cab (Cabinet 3) and is literally only about 10 feet away from the old cabinet that the BT Open Reach engineer was connecting with.

Also I spoke to the electrical contractor several weeks ago as they were finishing off digging up the road and laying the electrical cable to the new cabinet.

Steve

Talktalk can install fibre. I have just ordered it. I have sent you a private message.