Failed Install - TPON or Copper?

I had a young and helpful Openreach engineer visit today to attempt a FTTC install for BT infinity.

When he plugged in his test equipment he immediately said their was a line fault as he was getting 80mb showing at the new green cabinet 3 to 400 yards up the road and only 7mb showing in the house.

He went back to the cabinet and then returned saying their was an issue with TPON, and he did not think it would work. He did say he would send the job back for someone with more experience as he freely admitted he had never encountered TPON before.

The house is on a TPON estate and we at first could not get broadband due to TPON. However we have had broadband since 2003 at least and I remember the original BT engineer stating that we were getting broadband over a copper line.

The BT wholesale checker shows that we are on the ABERDEEN KINGSWELLS excahnge, served by Cabinet 18 and shows FTTC as available at up to 65mb down and 19 mb up.

It also shows ADSL speeds as up to 5.5mb which is about what we get currently.

Their is a grey cabinet across the road from the house which I assume is TPON although I have not seen any BT employees their in a long time.

Is there any way to find out if we are on TPON or copper or are we likely to have the same issue with the next engineer?

You must be on copper to get ADSL

In reply to a post by Ribble:

You must be on copper to get ADSL

I know the area well, although not been there for a few months. You are on copper, at least from the cabinet to the house.

The area is unique in that the ADSL DSLAMs are actually at the road side as a way of getting round the TPON E side connections.

I presume they have now plonked the VDSL cabinets alongside their ADSL counterparts, in which case it should work.

Thanks for the replies, did think we were copper.

Any ideas why the speed should drop so far from cabinet to house?

I think you had a sub-contract installer on his first job. He didn't know what he was doing, so made his excuses and left.

Your link back to the exchange from the cabinet has probably always been fibre but you were on connected to an ADSL DSLAM next to the existing cabinet.

It's all irrelevant anyway as when VDSL FTTC becomes available they just route you through that. The TPON becomes irrelevant and can be left there.

I'm wondering if the engineer connected you properly at all. Was the 7Mb he was seeing actually an ADSL signal being provided by the ADSL street cabinet rather than the new VDSL cabinet?

Edited by deleted (Wed 02-Jul-14 13:25:46)

Don't know what he was seeing, but 7MB could well have been the ADSL at the master, we usually get about 5.5 to 6MB at the router using an extension.

Have another appointment scheduled for Monday so can only hope for a better result

You need an Openreach engineer I think. The contractors won't have any kind of training on the roadside ADSL cabinets you have in your area. I'd also expect they wouldn't know much of anything about TPON.

Had another engineer visit today and same problem could find no dial tone at cabinet and no fibre connection to the home.

Went back to the cabinet and a while later phoned to say that he had traced the line all the way back to the exchange.

So despite all Openreach's records saying we were connected to the roadside cabinet we have a direct line to the exchange so no fibre broadband install today.

The helpful engineer did say that were a very small number of random houses in the estate that were direct to the exchange but all other had been moved off TPON onto the cabinets as we should have been.

He did say that a pair move and some tracing of the line would make a fibre install easy, but what is the chances of that?

Am I stuck on ADSL or is there someway to request a cabinet connection or pair move.

I work from home so being stuck on ADSL when neighbours all around are on FTTC is going to be less than useful

If you were to order a new line with a BT infinity package - would that get round all this and then request a cease on the current line?

all other had been moved off TPON onto the cabinets as we should have been.

If you have an ADSL connection you cannot be on TPON and must have been moved to a copper pair. It is, of course, still possible that your copper pair is EO but sounds unlikely if it goes via a cab.

You've not read the thread properly. Where the OP lives they have streetwise ADSL cabinets. So yes, he can be on TPON and have broadband.

If he has a copper link to a street side ADSL cabinet then FTTC should be possible since the link from the cab to the exchange should be irrelevant. Are you trying to suggest that the OP's ADSL connection is not delivered via a copper phone line? If not, how?

I'm not trying to suggest anything! We all understood perfectly until you came in and said he cannot be on TPON if he has ADSL.
My point is on his particular estate, he can be. It is a unique setup there, not the same as other TPON areas.

His house at the moment will probably be: TPON fibre link for the E-side from the exchange>jumper to a copper tie pair to the ADSL street cabinet>jumper to his copper D-side to his house.

But the E-side is irrelevant due to the ADSL cabinet and as you've mentioned there's absolutely no reason why he can't have VDSL2 provided by a standard new VDSL NGA FTTC Cabinet.

TPON can be messy.

Originally fibre with copper from grey cab for voice ONLY
Then some copper overlays were added back to exchange for limited number of ADSL lines.
Then at a later date some cabinets got either a full overlay, or it seems in this case roadside ADSL DSLAM.

So it is possibly if on an early TPON alteration to have what might be considered an EO line. Needs an engineer who knows the history of that cabinet/TPON area to say for sure.

We all understood perfectly until you came in and said he cannot be on TPON if he has ADSL.

Not what I said at all, perhaps you should be the one who needs to read the thread. I never even mentioned TPON, simply that his connection had to be copper as had already been mentioned by Ribble.

Nevertheless thank you for the explanation although I still fail to see why having a TPON E-side is preventing him getting FTTC since that is supplied from a kerb side cab in much the same way as his current ADSL. Something which can hopefully be resolved by Openreach without too many problems.

In reply to a post by MCM:

We all understood perfectly until you came in and said he cannot be on TPON if he has ADSL.

Not what I said at all, perhaps you should be the one who needs to read the thread. I never even mentioned TPON, simply that his connection had to be copper as had already been mentioned by Ribble.

Nevertheless thank you for the explanation although I still fail to see why having a TPON E-side is preventing him getting FTTC since that is supplied from a kerb side cab in much the same way as his current ADSL. Something which can hopefully be resolved by Openreach without too many problems.

I know, it isn't. It's just when contractors come out or new staff they are confused by the setup. There's no reason why TPON in this case would stop him having the FTTC.

Thanks for all the replies but TPON is no longer the issue.

The openreach engineer has already established that I have been connected directly to the exchange on a copper line while almost every one else goes via the cabinet.

Despite the records saying I was connected to cabinet 18 I am not. He tried every pair at the cabinet and then went to the exchange to find the line.

The issue I now need to know about is what are my chances of being connected to the cabinet so that I can get a FTTC broadband service.

The engineer stated that I should have been connected to the cabinet and that in his words a "pair move" was a simple task that would allow a cabinet connection and hence FTTC.

Are Openreach likely to do this or will they just say no you are direct so no FTTC?

For the thought of signing up to a 18 month contract - Openreach/BT Retail would be stupid not to give you the correct access to the cabinet.

I had Openreach digging up the pavement outside my house just for a ADSL2+ connection - didn't cost me a penny as I was signing up for 18 months.

I'd push them hard. Even escalate to the CEO mail.

Got it, so your line doesn't go through a cabinet at all now. Absolutely bizarre situation up there.

Well the engineers have been told not to move you onto a cabinet with the purpose of enabling FTTC so that's unlikely. I'd also agree that ordering a second line might be the best option or escalating the complaint somehow.

Third engineer from Openreach arrived today and first question was "Has anyone tried to install fibre here before?"

He knew nothing about any of the previous 2 visits. You would have thought Openreach would be telling their own engineers what was going on!

However told him what I knew of the two previous failed installs and that last engineer thought we were on an exchange only line.

The new engineer was extremely helpful and said he would do some investigations and see what he could do about getting me onto a line through the cabinet.

Several hours later and having seen him and a colleague haul up half the BT manholes in the street (probably helped that the sun was shining today) he was back with the good news that I now had a new line through the cabinet.

A couple of line tests later and FTTC was there, 65MB down and 16MB up, way better than the old ADSL 6MB max.

Mighty relieved not to be told, sorry your are on a EO line so no fibre for you.

Many thanks to the Openreach engineers, all have been very polite and helpful, and to every one here for their input.

It would be nice if the OR engineers always knew about the previous visits but sadly the systems are far too automated for that to be possible.

That's great news that they were able to sort it for you, sounds like they put in the time and effort to ensure you were happy. A bit of luck also that you got an underground trained engineer. Most of them aren't trained to work on the underground network so it's good for you that the guy you got was, and could see the job through from start to finish.

Edited by deleted (Tue 22-Jul-14 19:27:26)

Yes I definitely think I was lucky with the engineer I got today.

He worked very hard to resolve the problems and I did tell him I was very grateful

Edited by deleted (Tue 22-Jul-14 19:37:16)

Hello,

I live in Kingswells on the TPON network, I am currently with TalkTalk and have been trying to get upgraded to fibre with no luck so far.

I have also tried BT as well and I get the standard "not available in your area yet" reply.

How did you manage to place an order in the first place to get an engineer out?

Edit:- I have just done the BT wholesale check on my number and it's says I'm on cabinet 21 but there is no fibre listed. My parents also live in Kingswells so I checked their number and it's says they are on cabinet 13 and 65 down/20up fibre is available.

Edited by deleted (Wed 13-Aug-14 12:05:43)

Hi,

I am actually Westhill rather than Kingswells, but only ordered fibre when I saw that the BT wholesale checker indicated that fibre was available

Best keep checking on your number and hope that BT will enable your number for fibre shortly.

If you see any new green cabinets going up around about you then that is a good sign of fibre coming

Good luck

Thanks for the reply.

I didn't realise parts of Westhill were TPON as well, I thought it was just Kingswells.

As you say I'll keep checking.