Openreach Superfast takeup

BT is rolling out fibre optic broadband across the UK at a steady pace, but only 15% of fibre-ready premises have signed up for the superfast internet service.

Linky.

Edit - I see Andrew has a News article.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 31-Jul-14 14:49:44)

Or just on front page of http://www.thinkbroadband.com

Credited you and added a link in my edit, 8 seconds before your post hit the thread .

I had a giggle at the article, they come up with figures but I dont trust any of it.

My entire postcode area is exchange only, not a chance in hell of ever getting any decent broadband let alone fibre. Any checker tells you that fibre is not available including BT's. Two days ago I get a stupid letter from BT telling me Fibre is now available for me and included in the correspondence was a ticket "ala charlie and the chocolate factory golden " So with that level of incompitence I am not surprised there isn't a rush to take up the fibre services.

Also couple that in with the fact openreach only deem densly populated areas as commercialy viable (for upgrades, ie fitting cabinets and netwrok re management)with no knowlege of the financial demographs of these areas. So the poorest areas are commercialy viable but those in the outer reaches arent. I know that not all densely populated areas are poor but perhaps more care as to how they reach that decision.

BT + Openreach = Dumb and Dumber

I work closely with a group of 10 people, 3 of us would jump at fibre if available, 2 on EO lines, one lives in the sticks. The rest have no interest at all but it is available.

All they care about is the target figures and without tackling the issue of EO lines and the outer reaches of towns etc these "targets" will never be met. Surely that obsticle should have been dealt with first or as a minimum come up with a soloution. The stupidity of these companies is without a doubt the block.

Simple economics if selling a product is to first check and see if consumers want it , not flood areas with little interest.

Simple economics if selling a product is to first check and see if consumers want it

But if that were the case, we'd all still be using dial-up.

In reply to a post by RossMcG:

Also couple that in with the fact openreach only deem densly populated areas as commercialy viable (for upgrades, ie fitting cabinets and netwrok re management)with no knowlege of the financial demographs of these areas. So the poorest areas are commercialy viable but those in the outer reaches arent.

Why should a rich area be any more viable than a poor one? Last I heard BT pricing is the same for rich and poor. That being the case why would you expect a cabinet serving a dozen properties with relatively long copper runs to be more viable than a cabinet serving a couple of hundred properties most of which have less than 500 metres of copper?

FTTC costs more than a plain ADSL connection. Therefore one might conclude that take up will be higher in a more affluent area. I remember when ADSL first came out and BT enabled a bunch of exchanges that covered poorer areas, the house holds of which many I would doubt even owned a computer, yet alone where prepared to pay for a broadband connection. BT then announced that there was poor take up, well colour me surprised...

The basics are looking at just the number of premises connected to an exchange and/or cabinet as a method of determining whether upgrading it is commercially viable is a severely flawed methodology. You need to take into account the demographics of the area as well the existing internet connectivity. So a more affluent area which is suffering slow speeds is likely to have a higher uptake than a poorer area with good speeds, even though the density on the cabinets is lower.

Ever checked out how many "poor" families have Sky TV?

It can be argued that those at the poorer end of the spectrum are more likely to prioritise home entertainment services as they cannot afford to go to cinema, theatre, opera, races, etc,etc that the wealthier can.

Just because it is a wealthy area does not mean it will have lots of sign up for faster Internet - the opposite could equally be the case.

Ah yes, but there is one extra factor you also need to take account of.
rich areas comprising affluent residents have better things to do with their lives than spend them downloading cats on youtube and watching films.
They go out for their entertainment.
Yes they are heavy internet users - for things like online banking/stockbroking etc but NOT for those things that require a huge amount of speed such as multiple video streaming.
They are in many cases simply not interested in faster broadband

I know one place where on 'one side' so to speak to give it an imaginary dividing line there is both Virgin and BT's FTTC - this is surburbia.
On the other side are the residences of the rich so to speak where there is neither virgin nor is there any FTTC under the commercial or BDUK program due.
These companies are not stupid they know where the demand is - and moreover where it is not!

(Edit Ian72 got the same comment in first!)

Edited by deleted (Thu 31-Jul-14 16:51:15)

In reply to a post by zom22:

I know one place where on 'one side' so to speak to give it an imaginary dividing line there is both Virgin and BT's FTTC - this is surburbia.

Most, if not all, of Hazel Grove where I live.

In reply to a post by ian72:

Ever checked out how many "poor" families have Sky TV?

Yes many decades ago it was common to see many sky dishes in scummy areas. Now they are ten a penny in all areas so i guess the answer is no I havent checked that out. What that has to do with internet pick up i will never know.


Way I look at it is openreach were tasked with something, as always they done it half assed and didn't actually think it through, The easy route was taken and as a result the 90+ % will never be obtained unless they "fudge " the figures ( I suspect they already are doing so). It is clear they are not up to the task and they are making it up as they go along.

The purpose of the bduk from what I have read is to bring next generation broadband to all. They should revisit that and tell the truth, those with an easy fix will get it (if they opt for it and can afford it), those with a hard fix openreach do not have a scooby what to do.

Maybe if they polled for expression of interest (via letter) they would have been able to better prioritise.

Example - My area gets about 1 - 3.5MB the uptake here would be extremely high. Where my folks live there speed is between 10 - 15MB which are good speeds in my opinion (living with my speeds they are excellent) and I dont know anyone who has fibre there. An open reach engineer on the last visit told me that people near my area (those not on EO lines) have been snapping it up. They got fibre long after my folks area. Yet people where my folks live just arent interested.

Openreach wont upgrade my area as they deem it economically unviable, yet the postcode range not on EO lines have snapped it up. Going from say 2MB to 70MB is a massive jump, 15MB to 70MB isnt.

Obviously many wont agree with me as i am merely expressing my opinion. I am sure there is one thing we can all agree on that is openreach are useless and need to start being more honest

Hopefully as the commercial roll-out phase for fibre based broadband slows down, those areas where they can see FTTP infrastructure partially built will see the final bits of work completed over the next few months and the online checkers will finally allow them to place an order for a 40 Mbps, 80 Mbps or faster service. Some 150,000 premises can order FTTP on the Openreach network at this time, but more should have it available, the problem is one of limited resources and with pressure to hit deadlines for the BDUK projects there is a risk that people may have to wait even longer.

So does that mean we will/may finally get the FTTP that we was suppose to of got back in 2011?

*** crosses fingers ***

By the way did you find anything out with my issue Andrew?

Ross i

i assume you issues is your cab / area not commercial (are you covered under a Bduk programme or are you not in a NBDUK area

In reply to a post by Fastman2:

Ross i

i assume you issues is your cab / area not commercial (are you covered under a Bduk programme or are you not in a NBDUK area

Exchange only and over 3km from the exchange. I am in the BDUK category and they have said we will not be left out. Unfortunately though due to the "fudging" of the figures I fear they will be covered by the introduction of 4G. But again I live in the outskirts of town so coverage will be dire. I get 3G but at times you need to use the mobile upstairs to get a connection. My council also "claim" to get 100% coverage of "superfast" broadband. My speed is currently:

DownStream Connection Speed 3456 kbps
UpStream Connection Speed 971 kbps

gotta love the 3456

I managed to get to this point after 5 years of fighting with my isp and multiple openreach engineer visits. Openreach said i should be grateful to get over 1MB but i wouldn't let it lie. Most people in my street are 2MB 'ish'. It takes a lot of resolve to deal with openreach.

I have 2 fibre cabinets located within 200 meters from my house. Even more annoying is they are currently resurfacing all the roads at the moment between the cabinets, during which a lot of utility providers are utilising the opportunity to upgrade their underground snizz. Not open reach though,,,,,that would require a modicum of common sense.

BDUK will not help me or people in my postcode, we will merely be the % missed out. They did inform me that no grants will be available for improvement in my area as "we will not be forgot about and openreach are working on alternative technology"........

lol, lets all have faith in that, there is more chance of a monkey finishing a rubix cube (also similarities!)

I am not sure you read my post.

The comment about Sky was to show poorer households often spend on entertainment services where richer households probably have other ways to fill their time. Superfast broadband is primarily for entertainment at this point as there are few non-entertainment services that you can't do in a few meg.

As far as targets. BT commercial rollout doesn't have a target for 90%, it is 66%.

The 90% target was from first round of BDUK. BDUK does NOT have a target for next gen for all at this point - possibly an aspiration. The latest target with new funding I believe is 95%. And I think the 95% is for next gen not for superfast (so it could be a next gen service running at 2Mb).

BDUK target for 100% is minimum 2Mb. And you already seem to be beyond this so there is no guarantee in any of the current projects that you would get more.

I managed to get to this point after 5 years of fighting with my isp and multiple openreach engineer visits. Openreach said i should be grateful to get over 1MB but i wouldn't let it lie. Most people in my street are 2MB 'ish'. It takes a lot of resolve to deal with openreach.

No, the resolve is required between you and your ISP. Openreach only do what their customers ask of them.

If you accept that may is not a 100% guarantee, but yes some other areas as staff become free have seen the FTTP construction catch up.

In reply to a post by ian72:

I am not sure you read my post.

The comment about Sky was to show poorer households often spend on entertainment services where richer households probably have other ways to fill their time. Superfast broadband is primarily for entertainment at this point as there are few non-entertainment services that you can't do in a few meg.

As far as targets. BT commercial rollout doesn't have a target for 90%, it is 66%.

The 90% target was from first round of BDUK. BDUK does NOT have a target for next gen for all at this point - possibly an aspiration. The latest target with new funding I believe is 95%. And I think the 95% is for next gen not for superfast (so it could be a next gen service running at 2Mb).

BDUK target for 100% is minimum 2Mb. And you already seem to be beyond this so there is no guarantee in any of the current projects that you would get more.

No I read the post I just didnt agree with the content regarding poor people with sky TV as opposed to richer people with other variants of entertainment. Not saying you are wrong. Im just saying without evidence both of us are mearly speculating. One thing is concrete and that is technicly those with higher incomes have more disposable funds.

You mention the BDUK target being 2MB, yup I agree there and I exceed that target, however my neighbours dont, those on the same "pole" don't. Also the EO cluster extends to farms etc so I am in the "Not spot" and would benefit from their uploift.

I was just uber anal in complaining on a weekly basis and managed after 5 years to get to my current speed.

Hence I stand by my opinions especialy surrounding the lack of clarity and comprehensiveness of statements made by openreach (expectations are low from them anyway), BDUK, Local Authorities and (in my case) Digital Scotland.

From :
Openreach High Level Complaints
Customer Issues | Openreach

We�re very much aware that EO lines fed directly from the exchange to customers� premises is a problem that affects many areas nationally. Deployment in this part of the network brings a range of technical challenges and we�re running a number of trials and pilots to develop the best solution. Although I can�t give a timescale, we hope to deploy solutions at exchanges that are in the fibre programme and where it�s commercially viable. Meanwhile, our advice to the residents and businesses in the area is to register their interest for the fibre product with their Service Provider. All this will help us to identify commercial demand and shape our future deployment plans.

What a cabbage, they know the answer, Im too far from the exchange for them to re allign the cluster of EO lines to a cabinet at the exchange. Another Openreach chap already stated that "It will never be commercialy viable to provide fibre in our cluster" , cant find the email ATM but that shows just how these people all tell different stories.

From:
SuperFast Scotland

For exchange only lines the Scottish Government are keen to ensure no premise is left behind, regardless of how they are currently served. Our supplier has developed solution to fit most scenarios, for exchange only lines this might be providing a technology called fibre to the premise (fttp), this involved running fibre directly from an exchange to a home, so no need for a cabinet. Another solution is to build a new fibre to the cabinet network in the local area, this would involve putting new cabinets in at street level. Many of the areas which are poorly served would have up to now had little chance of improvement, that is why the Scottish Government is making an intervention, commercial bodies by default tend to only go where they can make a profitable investment. We aren�t able to confirm what technologies are being used until we start to build in an area, East Ayrshire is a council that have invested additional funding to the programme to maximise coverage to premises such as yourself. I would encourage you to keep an eye on the local press and our website over the coming week for further information in relation to East Ayrshire. I don�t know if you have managed to have a look at the video we have released on programme, but it�s pretty good at explaining the various solution available. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPgsCwMtjww&feature=e...

OK FTTP, I am miles away from the exchange, I am extremly close to Fibre Cabinets. Even then I believe this will never be an option unless I win the lottery or willing to spend about 10k on this.

As I already said I think their "get out of jail" card will be the deployment of 4G. Which is BS as it is not a viable option for most due to the usage limits and the congestion it will cause.

They should just come clean and clear and stop the rubbish

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I managed to get to this point after 5 years of fighting with my isp and multiple openreach engineer visits. Openreach said i should be grateful to get over 1MB but i wouldn't let it lie. Most people in my street are 2MB 'ish'. It takes a lot of resolve to deal with openreach.

No, the resolve is required between you and your ISP. Openreach only do what their customers ask of them.

My ISP were great with all of my complaints, fast to get an engineer out. The issues were clear and concise. It was the engineers that were useless (and often very rude). Untill I finaly hit the jackpot and had an engineer who started as a broadband engineer just that week and to quote him "done everything thoroughly" , where all failed before that one guy doubled my speed and left me with a stable connection, also made the line capable of playing PS3 online and watching Netflix. So I wonder just why the 10+ other BB engineers could not do this.

It will be interesting to see what they do with 4G. There are cost requirements for the BDUK solutions that they have to meet - if they don't come within that envelope then they aren't considered suitable for BDUK.

Satellite is also considered a potential solution and definitely has its own set of problems but technically could meet the requirements of the tender. All we can do is wait and see at the moment.

In reply to a post by ian72:

It will be interesting to see what they do with 4G. There are cost requirements for the BDUK solutions that they have to meet - if they don't come within that envelope then they aren't considered suitable for BDUK.

Satellite is also considered a potential solution and definitely has its own set of problems but technically could meet the requirements of the tender. All we can do is wait and see at the moment.

I was told by superfast scotland that Satelite will not be considered a soloution (for me at least). This is probs because I live in a urban area.

I 100% believ they will scapegoat with 4G, despite the factyou cant really utilise it due to usage caps. but alas usage caps or usability are not considered. Its more a case of for the non FTTC people "can you get over 2MB" if yes then job done "change the stats!".

So Joe blogs who lives on a farm was getting say 0.5MB broadband, now gets 3 or 4 via 4G if he stuff tin foil up his sleeves, stands on the roof, holds the phone to the moon and hopes for a signal. Job Done! "change the stats"

Edited by deleted (Fri 01-Aug-14 10:37:43)

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If you accept that may is not a 100% guarantee, but yes some other areas as staff become free have seen the FTTP construction catch up.

Ok, thanks Andrew, a few more cents in the happy Jar.