|
|
|
Hello yes I am an idiot.
So a little context, stuck in contract for foreseeable future, want fibre as soon as it becomes available, currently on adsl and phone with 1 company. Can, say, bt install infinity+phone adjacent to my current setup with no problems? We have two adsl sockets on the wall, one active and one doing nothing.
Thanks for any help!
|
|
|
You'd need 2 seperate phone lines.
I suspect the 2 sockets you see are the front of the faceplate, with a filtered phone connection, and unfiltered ADSL connection.
Cheers,
AP
ZeN Office
Fritz!Box 3390
|
|
|
They installed one for digital region, which then got reverted back to adsl, the other one was the original socket thats been there all along (max it has been on is adsl)
Installing a new phone line certainly sounds drastic but I have no idea what kind of work it involves so
EDIT: Infinity says 'if you need a new line you wont pay a penny for blah blah' not sure if new line equates to extra line though, guess Ill have to contact them
Edited by deleted (Tue 12-Aug-14 16:50:36)
|
|
Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.
|
|
|
Most properties have two or more pairs of wires running to them, so capacity for two telephone lines is there.
Question is whether you want to pay two lots of voice line rental, to have ADSL and a fibre based service available at the same time.
Digital Region was still an Openreach telephone line, just with sub loop unbundling.
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
Most properties have two or more pairs of wires running to them, so capacity for two telephone lines is there.
Question is whether you want to pay two lots of voice line rental, to have ADSL and a fibre based service available at the same time.
Digital Region was still an Openreach telephone line, just with sub loop unbundling.
I am at 0.8mb, I will pay with my children's souls
P.S It is important to note I have no children
|
|
|
|
Assuming that the second, suggested service is VDSL, what are the chances of cross-talk/mutual interference problems - any known installations?
|
|
|
Saw no issues on mine, and others have reported no major impacts. Some said I'd kill my VDSL2 speeds by enabling it on my second line and no impact at all.
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
Have you checked if your current ADSL provider will allow an in-contract upgrade to FTTC without penalty, just a new 18-month term? Most do.
-==-
DougM
|
|
|
|
Have you any idea of WHY the speed is so low, at "0.8mb"?
-------------------------------------
For FTTC/VDSL Broadband to give you its normal speed range of up to 80 Mbps, the "D-Side" line from the PCP to your house needs to be relatively short, say less than about 1 Kilometre (1100 Yards); AND in GOOD CONDITION, also bearing in mind that the second pair of copper wires are in the same insulating sheath, so will generally be in a similar state to the present working pair.
That D-side line may not follow the "obvious" route to your home.
In my case, the PCP is about 50 Metres from my front door; BUT the D-Side Phone Line wanders about 250 Metres to get to it. No obvious reason, estate pre-wired all underground in 1967, green-field site.
Ironically the FTTC Cabinet is about 10 Metres from the front door; but its links to the PCP add an extra 50 Metres.
So my VDSL signals, originating 10 Metres from the door, have to cover 300 Metres to get there!
The E-side multi-way cable to the Exchange and the corresponding Fibre Feed pass within 5 Metres of that same door, with a 3-section underground phone services chamber in the pavement.
-----------------------------
I think you should try to sort out why the present ADSL Speed is so low at "0.8mb", before attempting any form and expense of upgrading, which might not achieve what you (and your non-children) desire.
At the risk of the wrath of others on the Forum, I suggest that you try the Quiet Line Test first, at NO COST (if you have a corded phone to hand); and only taking a few minutes, to get some idea of the basic state of the Phone Line to your house.
|
|
|
Better to get connection speed attenuation and noise margin for the line. Also for person to see what speed estimate is for FTTC
Cab might be 100m away or in rare cases 3000m away
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
|
Agreed Andrew; but I suggest that the QLT does not require any real technical knowledge etc, so can be normally, readily understood and carried out by "anyone".
If the Line "passes" the QLT, then moving on progressively to those more advanced aspects, gradually increasing his abilities etc, is the way to proceed.
---------------------
Incidentally regarding Line Length, from the BRAS Tests I carried out over the years, I established that my line is 1,286 Metres to the Exchange, reasonably confirmed by carrying out various map-based and car-odometer measures.
Since going on to FTTC on 5th June 2014, the Line Length disappeared, although the other information remained; BUT just testing it now, the result is-
"
Looks like BT refused to test, possibly because a speed test or BRAS check has been run recently which prevents this tool from working. Try again in a few hours.
Debug: BT no BRAS info
"
I definitely had not carried out a BRAS Test in the past two weeks.
Any ideas?
|
|
|
Thanks for the input guys.
Our area has had around 1mb speeds forever, I believe its the distance to the exchange. Its pretty uniform across the entire neighborhood.
I am worried you saying this can affect FTTC though, we had digital region and that worked fine at 30 down 5 up, hope there will be no issues.
And the company I am with offer no good residential deals for fibre and even then will only do it on a 24 month contract extension (I basically shot myself in the foot with the largest calibre weapon you can think of) and I really really don't want to be with them any longer than necessary.
Some of the stuff flew over my head but I think I got the main points
EDIT: PCP is about 150 meters from my house
Edited by deleted (Wed 13-Aug-14 16:14:21)
|
|
|
FTTC via Openreach should be similar speeds to Digital Region as cab will be in the roughly same location
If 150 metres of actual telephone wire one would expect speeds to be a lot higher than 30 Meg too.
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
FTTC via Openreach should be similar speeds to Digital Region as cab will be in the roughly same location
If 150 metres of actual telephone wire one would expect speeds to be a lot higher than 30 Meg too.
Yeh the digital region was a 30/10 package, infinity claims we may get up to
70Mb-80Mb *
Estimated
download speed range20Mb-19Mb*
Estimated
upload speed range
I also received an email from the new where and when enquiries system that offers good news for once in the last 2 years!
I have investigated this on your behalf & find that in 2012, based on our fibre broadband take-up assumptions, the fixed costs of deploying a DSLAM (Fibre cabinet) were not outweighed by the forecast revenue for this cab, which made it not commercially viable.
This situation has now changed & we have put this Cab back into the rollout programme. Our planners advise the work is progressing & in fact nearing completion. We hope to be able to offer the service in approximately two months� time.
Cab distance as quoted by google maps is 350 meters, guess I was a few short (just it takes me 2 min to get to it lol) is that still a good distance?
|
|
|
|
Oh, and if it wasn't commercially viable, why the hell did they erect the cabinet in the first place? Is that strange?
( I imagine the appearance of digital region around that time complicated things)
|
|
|
The FTTC Cabinet has to be relatively close to the existing PCP Phone Distribution Cabinet, so that the individual links for each user are not excessively lengthened.
So the aim is to keep it under 100 metres.
FTTC/VDSL uses the already-available phone wires from the PCP to your house, to carry the VDSL signals in to your house, just like ADSL.
That final "D-side" length carries all the usual phone signals; and other items such as fax, alarms, dial-up etc, as well as nowadays ADSL or VDSL depending on what you have installed.
But the losses on VDSL are significantly greater as VDSL uses higher frequencies, well above what the 150 year-old phone system was expected to handle, so the combination of the link length from FTTC Cabinet to PCP, then the actual copper-wire distance from the PCP to your house + the Quality of that phone cable/wire are absolutely critical to what speed that you actually achieve on FTTC/VDSL.
The QLT helps to establish the Quality aspect and if any work is needed, such as remaking ancient joints.
This particularly applies if the wire is "overhead" on pole/s to any extent.
But underground is no guarantee either. Water getting in to the ducts etc.
If the "350 Metres" is the straight-line distance ("as the crow flies"), the actual length of the wire could readily be 1.414 times that distance and maybe even greater, so you should try to track that actual wire/cable route.
It is worth having a word with any OPENREACH (BT) Technician you may happen to see working on the two cabinets.
Edited by deleted (Wed 13-Aug-14 17:43:10)
|
|
|
|
The FTTC cab is within 5 meters of the PCP, literally across the road
That is not straight line distance, its turning on roads ect, best I can do with google maps!
Thanks for the advice
|
|
|
Been following up your mentions of Digital Region and also Origin Broadband, the latter seemingly having taken on some of the defunct DR business customers.
http://www.digitalregion.co.uk/closure-of-digital-re...
https://www.origin-broadband.co.uk/history
I suspect that the "FTTC cab" "literally across the road" is actually a DR Cabinet - with a similar function.
I think it may be helpful if you were to list your Broadband arrangements from BEFORE DR, through DR and what those Broadband arrangements are now.
It may be that most/all of your neighbours have similar Broadband histories; and thus similarly affected
------------
It would be useful also if you have some idea of the total distance to your Exchange.
Try using the BRAS Test-
https://windows.mouselike.org/be/index.asp?DoAction=...
using the "Fetch BRAS Info anyway" route.
Alternatively Google as previously.
=============================
Hypothesising!
Assuming DR was some form of VDSL, also delivered over the active D-Side pair, is there the possibility that some form of VDSL Rejection Filter has been left in the E-side pair leading back to the Exchange.
If so, on reversion to ADSL coming over the full length of the E-Side pair to the traditional PCP, could such a VDSL Filter be attenuating the higher frequency components of the ADSL, thus reducing the ADSL throughput to the D-Side and thus to jj02's house?
Is there anyone out there with direct working knowledge of exactly how the DR signals were incorporated in to the then existing phone system; and what (should have) happened on the demise of DR and the reversion to ADSL?
|
|
|
No need to theorise.
Digital Region was a VDSL2 service.
DR kit is incorporated in the identical fashion to Openreach FTTC, so once the line is broken from the DR cabinet which will be done as part of the migration back to a SMPF or MPF broadband service the filters in the DR cabinet will be irrelevant.
Only if jumpered to the DR cabinet will there be filters and these are such that NO ADSL signal gets through from the exchange.
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
|
Thanks, Andrew.
Gives a better appreciation of the situation.
But it seems strange that the Filters are in the FTTC/DR Cabinet, rather than the PCP, where the existing E-Side pairs are located.
The Fibre back to the Exchange obviously does not need that form of protection.
After the Fibre signals are converted to electrical within the FTTC/DR Cabinet, my understanding/belief was that it was simple copper links to the PCP.
Hence my thoughts that any VDSL Filters would be in the PCP, protecting the E-Side lines.
What is your distinction between "jumpers" and the "links" as mentioned by the OR Technician installing "100 pair Links" from my local FTTC to my local PCP?
|
|
|
Not strange at all, to have the filters in the DP would mean re-engineering that rather than just connecting up the tie pairs and doing a simple wiring change for each install.
Inside a PCP which HAS an active fibre twin (does not matter that it is an Openreach one.
http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/fibre-cornwall/images/f...
Jumper blocks/filters in the fibre twin
http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/fibre-cornwall/images/f...
The full fibre cabinet
http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/fibre-cornwall/images/f...
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
I dunno if my post got deleted or something but these are the three cabinets,
I thought it was just a PCP, DR and Openreach FTTC cab
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.39159,-1.511148,3a...
Do a 180 to see the one across the road
|
|
|
A nice lazy openreach guy stand there with hands in their pocket!
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ll=53.391519,-1.51130...
Edited by adslmax (Thu 14-Aug-14 16:09:26)
|
|
|
A nice lazy openreach guy stand there with hands in their pocket!
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ll=53.391519,-1.51130...
Sums up our entire situation haha
|
|
|
Where did you find that pic Max? I went looking for the post holding it, as I recognised the pic we were just given. I didn't find it. I think there was considerable discussion at the time.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
|
|
|
Yeh I made a similar post a while back, somehow this went down that road again!
EDIT: Similar as in about cabinets, not identical to this OP
I aint no spammer
Edited by deleted (Thu 14-Aug-14 22:46:12)
|
|
|
Not suggesting you are. But it might be an idea to give us a link to the other thread so we can see what has been said before. There's nothing so annoying as spending time trying to help someone and a bit later finding the same thing has been posted in a previous thread. 
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Edited by RobertoS (Thu 14-Aug-14 23:31:50)
|
Pages in this thread: 
Print Thread
