FTTC sync 39.7Mbps/18.2Mbps normal on 80/20 profile?

Hi All,
2 weeks ago I had ADSL2+ installed which was syncing between 10-13Mbps.
Freshly after install PlusNet detected fault on line, something to do with battery.
BTOR engineers who arrived at my premises found water in manhole 10 ms away from my house, dried it and secured. After that I started seeing synci speeds of ~14.05Mbps.

Then Yesterday I've got ADSL replaced with FTTC. BTOR engineer run line test and synced at 47Mbps downstream.

Immediately after connecting BT modem I was seeing speed of 11Mbps downstream and 18Mbps upstream. I called PlusNet and it turned out my IP profile was still set to ADSL, half an hour later downstream speed jumped to 38Mbps.

My PlusNet product is 80/20. They're telling me I'm on correct profile, but somehow it feels fishy to see 18Mbps upstream and such low downstream without some artificial cap.

I've checked my BRAS profile and I can see:
The current Downstream BRAS rate is: 38.4 Mbps
The current Upstream BRAS rate is: 20 Mbps

What are your thoughts? Is it possible that PlusNet ordered correct profile but wrong one was set? Or perhaps it's DLM cap left over from line fault?

Below is PlusNet reply to my enquiry about slow speed:

"With regards to your line, it is capable of speeds between 22.4Mbps and 47.8Mbps download and between 5.7Mbps and 10.6Mbps upload.

Currently we are seeing sync at 39.7Mbps download and 18.2Mbps upload.

We have you on 80/20 service with your current profile set to 38.4Mbps after your conversation with one of my colleagues on Wednesday.

Please be aware, as advised by David, that this speed will fluctuate during the initial 10 days of activation so until 6th September your speeds will be up and down and nothing like we would expect to see them."

What does this checker give as your FTTC estimates?

Featured Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate(Mbps) Downstream Range(Mbps) Availability Date
High Low High Low
FTTC Range A (Clean) 47.8 34.8 10.6 7 -- Available
FTTC Range B (Impacted) 40 22.4 10.6 5.7 -- Available

PlusNet sell a 40/20 product and an 80/20 product

Without seeing the actual modem connection speeds it is hard to be sure, but generally lines that get full upload speed go a lot faster than your reported 38 Mbps.

Suspect if PlusNet were to up the profile on their side more you would see more speed, i.e. limit is on the PlusNet side most likely

What does the Plusnet Current Line Speed say?

I assume when you referred to the BRAS rates in your first post you meant the IP Profiles that appear on the Further diagnostics page of the BT Wholesale Performance Tester?

If so, then you are definitely on the 80/20 Openreach product, which Plusnet would cap to 40Mbps down using the Current line speed setting on your account, (Member Centre >> Connection Details >> High speed broadband), if you had upgraded to the 40/20.

However when they do that that the line sync's at your full speed and the IP Profile reflects that. It doesn't cap your Openreach sync speed. Your IP Profile suggests a sync speed between ~39,674kbps and ~39,776kbps, not the 47Mbps the engineer recorded. We could do with the second decimal place .

To be getting a real 18Mbps upstream given the estimate and the below 50Mbps downstream is very strange.

So the answer to your question about whether this is normal is an emphatic No.

I can't see an obvious post from you on the Plusnet Community Forums. You need to create a login for that if you haven't done so. I think you should raise the question there, (using the term "IP Profile" if that is as I assumed).

Also I'm about to post on there about the rubbish "Please be aware, as advised by David, that this speed will fluctuate during the initial 10 days of activation so until 6th September your speeds will be up and down and nothing like we would expect to see them." That is complete garbage. It was not true on ADSLx, and doesn't even apply on FTTC . The support people you have spoken to need more training.

Feel free to join in on that over there. I have a different username, but you'll spot it.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 28-Aug-14 16:47:27)

The 40Mbps cap is applied within Plusnet's system Andrew. it doesn't affect the sync and BTW IP Profile.

I know, hence seeing modem side sync speeds will help a lot.

Easily calculated from his IP Profile, which I assume is what he referred to as his BRAS Profile.

The result in in my reply to him.

PlusNet high speed broadband shows:
Current line speed:
38.4 Mb

What I refered as BRAS profile(IP profile) And speeds I've got from https://windows.mouselike.org/be/index.asp?DoAction=...

So what you're saying is that even if PlusNet were limiting my speeds the BRAS/IP profile would be showing higher speeds if they were possible?

In reply to a post by sobol:

PlusNet high speed broadband shows:
Current line speed:
38.4 Mb

What I refered as BRAS profile(IP profile) And speeds I've got from https://windows.mouselike.org/be/index.asp?DoAction=...

Better to use the BT Wholesale Performance Test, (normally ignoring all the red instructions), then continue to the Further diagnostics at the bottom of the initial results page. That gives two decimal places as well so we can calculate your connection speed farily accurately.

So what you're saying is that even if PlusNet were limiting my speeds the BRAS/IP profile would be showing higher speeds if they were possible?

Yes. Or to be more precise, they would show the actual IP Profile. Divide that by 0.9679 to get the sync within a few kbps.

I've already run the mentioned test and it doesn't show much different speeds.
It's not biggie to have them off by few kbit/s. The issue I'm trying to solve is 39/18 Mbit/s sync. I feel downstream speeds can be much better.

Anything on DLM? Perhaps I should restart the VDSL modem?

PlusNet replied to me again with:

"Firstly the speeds quoted are only the estimated speeds for your line. After running a test on the line, here are the results of the test:

xDSL Status Summary Circuit Sync Status : In Sync Downstream Line Rate : 39.7 Upstream Line Rate : 18.2. This therefore means you are achieving more than the estimated speed. "

Not today.

The Openreach DLM normally leaves things alone on the first day, unless serious issues are encountered, and steps in on (or at the end of) day 2. Which is today.

I doubt if power-cycling the modem once would do any harm however.

As I said, the BT test gives 2 decimal places and if you run wired a useful speed test as well. Far better for diagnostics than that site you gave .

Was it a real BT engineer, or a contractor (Quinn's/Kelly's usually)?

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 28-Aug-14 17:25:13)

I've received this reply from a rep n the Plusnet forums

I'm pretty sure I know what the issue is after reading that thread so I will await the post

It would be an idea to post over there .

An 18.2 upstream could well be right. With a potential 47 down it suggests that over the full spectrum the attenuation and/or noise are such that the upstream is also tailing off from the potential maximum.

As an indicator, I tend to see lines that have a downstream of 55-60 will usually get full 20 up, with the achievable being just slightly over 20 - mainly due to attenuation.

I've run the BT wholesale tests.

Download speedachieved during the test was - 36.91 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 26.88 Mbps-38.4 Mbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is - 38.4 Mbps

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 12.43Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps

As to real transfer values; I easily get 15.2 Mbps upload and 36,86 Mbps download to my RackSpace server, and that is over SCP which has considerable encryption overhead.

Thank you for your help. I will now start topic on PlusNet forum as suggested.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Not today.

The Openreach DLM normally leaves things alone on the first day, unless serious issues are encountered, and steps in on (or at the end of) day 2. Which is today.

I doubt if power-cycling the modem once would do any harm however.

As I said, the BT test gives 2 decimal places and if you run wired a useful speed test as well. Far better for diagnostics than that site you gave .

Was it a real BT engineer, or a contractor (Quinn's/Kelly's usually)?

I'll point out that for Downstream, the "IP Profile" value reported by the BT Wholesale test is indeed related to the downstream sync speed - using the factor RobertoS mentioned earlier.

However, the upstream "IP profile" value is always one of 20, 10 or 2 - and only depends on the package configured for your line. It does not depend on the actual upstream sync speed of the line.

Actually getting upload speeds of 15Mbps does indeed suggest that the sync speed is 17+, but isn't absolute proof that you are synced at 20. It probably matches with the value quoted by the PN rep: 18.2Mbps.

I was wondering why BT IP profile value is different to reported by PlusNet, so thanks for explaining that.

Seeing 18.2Mbps upstream sync I'd expect higher syncs on downstream, that's my only grief. I'll see how PlusNet staff deals with this Today and report back.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

I'll point out that for Downstream, the "IP Profile" value reported by the BT Wholesale test is indeed related to the downstream sync speed - using the factor RobertoS mentioned earlier.

However, the upstream "IP profile" value is always one of 20, 10 or 2 - and only depends on the package configured for your line. It does not depend on the actual upstream sync speed of the line.

Actually getting upload speeds of 15Mbps does indeed suggest that the sync speed is 17+, but isn't absolute proof that you are synced at 20. It probably matches with the value quoted by the PN rep: 18.2Mbps.

Wild shot

The way the down and up sides are capped at the cabinet sync wise does go wrong, usually for upload, i.e. people order 80/20 and get something like 76/9 and then after some pushing it gets fixed.

If they can do the upload wrong, maybe they got the download wrong this time, or it is a sign of a more symmetric 40/20 on its way at the wholesale level.

for Downstream, the "IP Profile" value reported by the BT Wholesale test is indeed related to the downstream sync speed

That is usually the case.

I have found with HG612 and HH3 that sometimes the HG612 resyncs fast enough that the HH3 does not notice the dropped low level connection. Therefore it does not reset the PPPoE connection. It is the PPPoE reset that forces the profile to match (with the factor mentioned) the sync speed.

When connection is lost due to real line problems the downtime was always enough to force the new PPPoE connection.
However, when DLM was gradually allowing faster sync after a problem, the establishment of that faster sync often went unnoticed by HH3 and thus by profile.
Resetting the internet connection on the HH3 always resolved the issue.

I don't know if there are other situations where this can happen; but probably.
I am pretty sure it was MrSaffron who pointed this out to me originally, so he can say if there is any possibility it could apply here.

I'm using ECI Telecom's B-FOCuS V-2FUb/r Rev.B

Can anything can be determined from PCP: {THBK}{P85} ?
For example if my modem is best matched for the cabinet equipment?

SoboL

It's a Huawei cab

In reply to a post by sobol:

For example if my modem is best matched for the cabinet equipment?

SoboL

In the early days of ADSL then matching modem and cabinet tended to give better performance. However, now it is largely irrelevant. I get several Mbps more with an ECI modem on a Huawei cabinet than with an HG612.

My parents was first connected at 80/20. I can see openreach modem (unlocked) was sync at 79987k / 19999k then later plusnet changed to 40/20 and the openreach modem still sync at 79987k / 19999k but plusnet current line speed are capped at 38.4Mb.

Plusnet do not have product 40/10 anymore. But, instead they are using BT 80/20 but capped at their side at 38.4Mb.

Edited by adslmax (Fri 29-Aug-14 14:25:26)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

My parents was first connected at 80/20. I can see openreach modem (unlocked) was sync at 79987k / 19999k then later plusnet changed to 40/20 and the openreach modem still sync at 79987k / 19999k but plusnet current line speed are capped at 38.4Mb.

Plusnet do not have product 40/10 anymore. But, instead they are using BT 80/20 but capped at their side at 38.4Mb.

And the relevance to my post is?

NONE

MHC, no offence but it did have significance to me. It affirmed from second source that the sync speed shown at BT speedtest will show actual sync speed regardless of PlusNet cap.

In any case, thanks for your help.

In reply to a post by MHC:

In reply to a post by adslmax:

My parents was first connected at 80/20. I can see openreach modem (unlocked) was sync at 79987k / 19999k then later plusnet changed to 40/20 and the openreach modem still sync at 79987k / 19999k but plusnet current line speed are capped at 38.4Mb.

Plusnet do not have product 40/10 anymore. But, instead they are using BT 80/20 but capped at their side at 38.4Mb.

And the relevance to my post is?

NONE

I did make changes on the phone wire, and suddenly speed is better.

Download speedachieved during the test was - 45.9 Mbps
IP Profile for your line is - 47.43 Mbps
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps

Now I think I suspect returning line wire to another point, but I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong.

1. I've opened small box fixed to my houses' outside wall.
My port is no.1. I've noticed that the blue pair of wires had about 0.5cm of wire without boot so I clipped them to be shorted and fit perfectly under fixing screw washer.

2. I have two sockets at home. First is original BT socket with one port only going to living room where phone is connected.
Second is newly installed socket by another make in utility room where I have all servers and networking equipment including VDSL modem. This one has built in filter.

The cable arrangement was:
- BT phone wire cable terminate in box outside
- CAT5e cable goes into utility room and connects to back of socket
- Face plate of the socket has a pair of orange wires going back to outside wall which are bridged with wire going to living room, where phone was connected over another standalone filter
- I've unplugged orange wire

If this is potential reason, can this be done better?

3. Above didn't matter but DLM did it's magic and after reconnection new speed appeared?


Images:
BT wire box
Overview

Edited by deleted (Fri 29-Aug-14 18:05:32)

Can you post a few photos of the newly installed socket - front and back of faceplate, please?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Can you post a few photos of the newly installed socket - front and back of faceplate, please?

I don't want to disconnect the setup again, if I'd remove faceplate modem will lose connection.

I've ordered new BT socket with MK2 face plate and hope it will arrive tomorrow.
So when I will be rewiring it I could take photos of old setup.

Edited by deleted (Fri 29-Aug-14 18:17:46)

In reply to a post by sobol:

I did make changes on the phone wire, and suddenly speed is better.

Download speedachieved during the test was - 45.9 Mbps
IP Profile for your line is - 47.43 Mbps
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps

Now I think I suspect returning line wire to another point, but I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong.

1. I've opened small box fixed to my houses' outside wall.
My port is no.1. I've noticed that the blue pair of wires had about 0.5cm of wire without boot so I clipped them to be shorted and fit perfectly under fixing screw washer.

2. I have two sockets at home. First is original BT socket with one port only going to living room where phone is connected.
Second is newly installed socket by another make in utility room where I have all servers and networking equipment including VDSL modem. This one has built in filter.

The cable arrangement was:
- BT phone wire cable terminate in box outside
- CAT5e cable goes into utility room and connects to back of socket
- Face plate of the socket has a pair of orange wires going back to outside wall which are bridged with wire going to living room, where phone was connected over another standalone filter
- I've unplugged orange wire

If this is potential reason, can this be done better?

3. Above didn't matter but DLM did it's magic and after reconnection new speed appeared?


Images:
BT wire box
Overview

That block terminal is ancient and although your screws look ok, you can see corrosion on the end of the wire for pair 2. It should really be replaced with a BT66.

As for your pair, I cannot understand why it is being fed with an cat5 cable, and probably one that is meant for internal use. There should be a standard BT dropwire connected to this, not cat 5 cable.

Also the orange pair on that cat 5 cable is connected to the brown down lead. Clearly something funny going on here.

Edited by troublegum (Fri 29-Aug-14 20:38:02)

In reply to a post by troublegum:

In reply to a post by sobol:

I did make changes on the phone wire, and suddenly speed is better.

Download speedachieved during the test was - 45.9 Mbps
IP Profile for your line is - 47.43 Mbps
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps

Now I think I suspect returning line wire to another point, but I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong.

1. I've opened small box fixed to my houses' outside wall.
My port is no.1. I've noticed that the blue pair of wires had about 0.5cm of wire without boot so I clipped them to be shorted and fit perfectly under fixing screw washer.

2. I have two sockets at home. First is original BT socket with one port only going to living room where phone is connected.
Second is newly installed socket by another make in utility room where I have all servers and networking equipment including VDSL modem. This one has built in filter.

The cable arrangement was:
- BT phone wire cable terminate in box outside
- CAT5e cable goes into utility room and connects to back of socket
- Face plate of the socket has a pair of orange wires going back to outside wall which are bridged with wire going to living room, where phone was connected over another standalone filter
- I've unplugged orange wire

If this is potential reason, can this be done better?

3. Above didn't matter but DLM did it's magic and after reconnection new speed appeared?


Images:
BT wire box
Overview

That block terminal is ancient and although your screws look ok, you can see corrosion on the end of the wire for pair 2. It should really be replaced with a BT66.

As for your pair, I cannot understand why it is being fed with an cat5 cable, and probably one that is meant for internal use. There should be a standard BT dropwire connected to this, not cat 5 cable.

Also the orange pair on that cat 5 cable is connected to the brown down lead. Clearly something funny going on here.

Hi,
It's what I had at the time of install. The CAT5e cable I've used is a good quality branded one.

I'll look into changing terminal, although my neighbour is also connected to it so I have to ask if he doesn't mind. BTOR engineer wasn't bothered with it at all.

In reply to a post by sobol:

In reply to a post by troublegum:

In reply to a post by sobol:

I did make changes on the phone wire, and suddenly speed is better.

Download speedachieved during the test was - 45.9 Mbps
IP Profile for your line is - 47.43 Mbps
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps

Now I think I suspect returning line wire to another point, but I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong.

1. I've opened small box fixed to my houses' outside wall.
My port is no.1. I've noticed that the blue pair of wires had about 0.5cm of wire without boot so I clipped them to be shorted and fit perfectly under fixing screw washer.

2. I have two sockets at home. First is original BT socket with one port only going to living room where phone is connected.
Second is newly installed socket by another make in utility room where I have all servers and networking equipment including VDSL modem. This one has built in filter.

The cable arrangement was:
- BT phone wire cable terminate in box outside
- CAT5e cable goes into utility room and connects to back of socket
- Face plate of the socket has a pair of orange wires going back to outside wall which are bridged with wire going to living room, where phone was connected over another standalone filter
- I've unplugged orange wire

If this is potential reason, can this be done better?

3. Above didn't matter but DLM did it's magic and after reconnection new speed appeared?


Images:
BT wire box
Overview

That block terminal is ancient and although your screws look ok, you can see corrosion on the end of the wire for pair 2. It should really be replaced with a BT66.

As for your pair, I cannot understand why it is being fed with an cat5 cable, and probably one that is meant for internal use. There should be a standard BT dropwire connected to this, not cat 5 cable.

Also the orange pair on that cat 5 cable is connected to the brown down lead. Clearly something funny going on here.

Hi,
It's what I had at the time of install. The CAT5e cable I've used is a good quality branded one.

I'll look into changing terminal, although my neighbour is also connected to it so I have to ask if he doesn't mind. BTOR engineer wasn't bothered with it at all.

That is an openreach distribution point and is not for you to be changing. I would strongly advise against it.

You shouldn't even be running your own cables into it. Not sure why the engineer would even let you do this to be honest.

In reply to a post by sobol:

I don't want to disconnect the setup again, if I'd remove faceplate modem will lose connection.

That sounds like it's wired wrong.

Good luck with wiring up the new faceplate...

Hi All,
So I've played a bit with my wire/cable setup as new BT socket didn't arrive.

First off I've removed CAT5e cable from BT terminal and connected BT modem directly via short cable to my port. This didn't give any speed gain, so I'm presuming CAT5e cabling isn't any issue.

Second, I've retested second line connected to face place via A B port and that is causing line to drop speed to ~8Mbps. Extension via Port A B to phone connection won't work without standalone filter, so I'm presuming this DSL extension. Ports 2 3 and 4 5 give dead line on the phone.
Socket I'm using can be seen at: http://sobol.org/shared/FTTC/Socket/

One interesting I've noticed is that the BT terminal outside my house is actually used for 3 other properties. Four lines, mine is shortest. They've in direction away from cabinet, yet BT speed estimate via Broandband checker for those properties is 55Mbit/s, so another 7Mbit faster then what I get :/

Edited by deleted (Sat 30-Aug-14 19:30:55)

I've fitted MK2 socket and run phone extension on NTE5 faceplate in pins 2 and 5.
The extended phone socket now works without a filter for a phone.
While broadband sync is at it's best ( IP Profile for your line is - 47.43 Mbps ) on master socket.

Thank you again for all the advices.