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Standard User GeekOfBroadband
(newbie) Wed 01-Oct-14 14:50:16
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BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[link to this post]
 
Whats the differeces bettween these two? Would you see improved speed or line stability?


Can anyone tell me the filter freqency difference between this two filters, I have just installed the new faceplate yesterday.

Edited by GeekOfBroadband (Wed 01-Oct-14 14:54:00)

Standard User AndyPandy
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 01-Oct-14 15:41:23
Print Post

Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: GeekOfBroadband] [link to this post]
 
Some info here:
https://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Infinity-Speed-Connec...

Mixed reviews.


ZeN Office
Fritz!Box 3390
Standard User Stevenage_Neil
(committed) Wed 01-Oct-14 16:26:35
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Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: GeekOfBroadband] [link to this post]
 
Talking about faceplates, I returned from holiday last Friday to find I had no phone service, (broadband appeared to be working), Got onto Sky and OR appeared yesterday. He did some tests and said the faceplate was duff. (Apparently we had had some severe local storms in our area.) He said it was the third faceplate he had had to replace that day and maybe there had been a faulty batch. He opened up a brand new faceplate from it's plastic wrapper, fitted it, ran another test, and that one was duff too! Replacing it with another new one everything was fixed.
Now just got wait for DLM to be reset..........


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Standard User youngsyp
(member) Wed 01-Oct-14 17:07:16
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Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: AndyPandy] [link to this post]
 
And so mixed that you can only rationally take the comments/ experiences on face value.

As I understand it, you'll only really see any difference/ improvement if you're currently suffering from some sort of REIN, as it's just a filter change.

Paul

ISP: Xilo
Service: Talk & Surf 100
Exchange: SMYG
Cabinet: 4
MSAN: Broadcom
Modem/ router: Billion BiPac 7800N
Attenuation:39.5dB
Target SNRM: 3.3dB or 52% of ISP
Current sync: 9755kbps
FTTC cab in place but not enabled..... yet!

Edited by youngsyp (Wed 01-Oct-14 17:08:31)

Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 01-Oct-14 20:51:12
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Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: GeekOfBroadband] [link to this post]
 
Take a look here, been a lot of discussion on it.

Standard User youngsyp
(member) Wed 01-Oct-14 22:42:31
Print Post

Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for that. I think it's convinced me to go back to my Pressac pre-filtered faceplate and ditch the MK2 for now!

Paul

ISP: Xilo
Service: Talk & Surf 100
Exchange: SMYG
Cabinet: 4
MSAN: Broadcom
Modem/ router: Billion BiPac 7800N
Attenuation:39.5dB
Target SNRM: 3.3dB or 52% of ISP
Current sync: 9755kbps
FTTC cab in place but not enabled..... yet!
Standard User Colin_London
(member) Fri 03-Oct-14 22:20:19
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Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: GeekOfBroadband] [link to this post]
 
Spot the difference smile

MK1, MK2 & MK3 Openreach VDSL Faceplaces
Standard User kasg
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 04-Oct-14 10:22:21
Print Post

Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: Colin_London] [link to this post]
 
Well Mk 1 is obviously different, as for 2 and 3, they have a different number! smile I have a Mk 1 and feel positively prehistoric.

Kevin

plusnet Unlimited Fibre - sync approx 60000/20000 at 450m - BQM
Using OpenDNS
Domains and web hosting with TSOHOST
Standard User ian007jen
(committed) Sat 04-Oct-14 10:47:09
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Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: Colin_London] [link to this post]
 
Genuine MK1 does not have the dsl socket where the piccy show it.

IAn
Standard User burakkucat
(experienced) Sat 04-Oct-14 12:14:15
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Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: ian007jen] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian007jen:
Genuine MK1 does not have the dsl socket where the piccy show it.
Wrong.

Your appear to be thinking about the original i-plate (for ADSL services) and not the original (Mk 1) SSFP for VDSL2 services.

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User ian007jen
(committed) Sat 04-Oct-14 15:32:42
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Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
Wrong


I thought this was the original v1 (adsl)
http://www.bttorj45.com/NTE5%20ADSL%20faceplate%20in...

Ian
Standard User burakkucat
(experienced) Sat 04-Oct-14 15:43:51
Print Post

Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: ian007jen] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian007jen:
I thought this was the original v1 (adsl)
http://www.bttorj45.com/NTE5%20ADSL%20faceplate%20in...

That device is the original centralised filter, designed for use with ADSL(2+) services.

The Mk 1 SSFP for VDSL2 services is as Colin_London has shown in the image, to which he has provided a link. smile

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User ian007jen
(committed) Sat 04-Oct-14 15:57:49
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Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
That device is the original centralised filter, designed for use with ADSL(2+) services.


Ahhhh .I've got it now.

Ian
Standard User burakkucat
(experienced) Sat 04-Oct-14 16:04:48
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Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: ian007jen] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian007jen:
Ahhhh .I've got it now.
Purrfect!

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User PhilLee
(newbie) Sat 04-Oct-14 16:07:11
Print Post

Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: Colin_London] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Colin_London:
Spot the difference smile

MK1, MK2 & MK3 Openreach VDSL Faceplaces


What I have is different from any of those.
It is printed (like Mk2 and Mk3) rather than embossed (like Mk1), but has no Mk number at all.
Possible discovery of a Mk1a?

The question is, would I get any benefit from upgrading to a newer one?
Standard User burakkucat
(experienced) Sun 05-Oct-14 10:36:11
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Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: PhilLee] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilLee:
What I have is different from any of those.
It is printed (like Mk2 and Mk3) rather than embossed (like Mk1), but has no Mk number at all.
Possible discovery of a Mk1a?
A Mk 1 SSFP (for VDSL2 services) is not marked "Mk 1" -- it is, essentially, anonymous. It is called "Mk 1" reterospectively.

Colin_London has provided an image of the three variations of the VDSL2 SSFPs. Any subtle differences noticed (printed rather than embossed, etc) is due to different manufacturers.

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Sun 05-Oct-14 11:05:19
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Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: Colin_London] [link to this post]
 
Now take them all apart to show the components and layout, then draw the circuits with component values. From the original to Mk2 there could be enhancements to use 17MHz profiles and maybe the Mk3 has been further enhanced to either improve performance at the top end or maybe extend it to 30 MHz.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 05-Oct-14 15:16:25
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Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: PhilLee] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhilLee:
What I have is different from any of those.
It is printed (like Mk2 and Mk3) rather than embossed (like Mk1), but has no Mk number at all.
Possible discovery of a Mk1a?

The question is, would I get any benefit from upgrading to a newer one?
Likewise, in description and question.

Mine was installed by Openreach, not a subcontractor, in February 2011. I think that predates the Mk 2.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly." - G K Chesterton.
Standard User WelshWArrior
(experienced) Sun 05-Oct-14 15:40:01
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Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
BT Engineer replaced a circa 1967 faceplate and installed at MK2 at my place 2 weeks ago as part of a fault finding exercise prior to fixing the problem I had. I must say it's had an impressive effect - raising my downstream speed from 11Mbps-ish to the new sync of 14211kbps. Also, the Attenuation went from around 36 to the new current value of 34, with the SNR now dropped to 4.7.

-------------------------------------------
PlusNet ADSL2+ Unlimited.
Speedtest
Standard User Colin_London
(member) Sun 05-Oct-14 16:09:24
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Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: youngsyp] [link to this post]
 
Well I suffer from REIN so fingers crossed it reduces my disconnects.

Just changed my MK2 to the MK3. There has been next to no change to my maximum upload data rate figure - the one I am most concerned about as I believe data rate falling below target data rate (now 19567kbps) when noise occurs is the reason behind my disconnects.

Maximum download speed has in fact fallen by 1.3Mbps to 63183kbps , but this is of little consequence as DLM has capped at 59995kbps.

What has changed is that my noise margin appears to have marginally increased by 0.5dB on both up & download, and line attenuation fallen by 0.2dB.

The proof is in the pudding though I guess, and we'll see how the connection stability pans out. But on the above basis I am not expecting a huge improvement.

Edited by Colin_London (Sun 05-Oct-14 16:10:57)

Standard User epyon
(experienced) Sun 05-Oct-14 19:18:51
Print Post

Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
SO i have a MK2 or 3 mine doesnt say q_q

Standard User burakkucat
(experienced) Sun 05-Oct-14 23:53:12
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Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
I'll invite you to take a quick look through this Kitz forum thread.

The only observed difference between a Mk 2 and a Mk 3 is in the toroidal wound common-mode (rejection) filter. The Mk 3 has a significant increase in the number of turns of the windings. Everything else is identical.

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User burakkucat
(experienced) Sun 05-Oct-14 23:57:44
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Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: epyon] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by epyon:
SO i have a MK2 or 3 mine doesnt say q_q
If it is not marked in the top right-hand corner, it will be an original Mk 1 SSFP.

Just scroll back up in this thead and take the link that Colin_London has provided. The image shows, left to right, a Mk 1, a Mk2 and a Mk 3.

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User burakkucat
(experienced) Mon 06-Oct-14 00:15:55
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Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Mine was installed by Openreach, not a subcontractor, in February 2011. I think that predates the Mk 2.
Yes, from that date, I am sure it will be a Mk 1.

As I have already mentioned, if the SSFP is not marked "Mk 2" or "Mk 3" in the top right-hand corner then it is a Mk 1.

As for any benefit that might be obtained by changing the SSFP, it really depends upon circumstances -- of the actual circuit and the environment through which it passes. A fellow Kitizen has performed some basic tests with an original ADSL centralised filter, a Mk 1 SSFP, a Mk 2 SSFP and a Mk 3 SSFP. Details can be found in the same Kitz forum thread, to which I referred in a prior post, above.

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User Colin_London
(member) Tue 14-Oct-14 22:59:19
Print Post

Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: Colin_London] [link to this post]
 
Well my verdict after about 10 days use of the MK3.

It is an improvement for me!

As stated above, it reduced my maximum data rate both for download and upload. The sync on upload is now a little below 19999, but my download is capped at 59999 which is still below the (reduced) line maximum. So no change in speeds really.

But there is a real reduction in line disconnects. With the MK2 it used to resynch a couple of times a day (I live near a tube line), but now it has only gone down when there was a thunderstorm. My noise margin for a given maximum data rate has increased and my line attenuation has fallen slightly.

So it suits my line, but as I say I have known REIN issues, so maybe that is what this new filter is good for.

Edited by Colin_London (Tue 14-Oct-14 23:00:03)

Standard User burakkucat
(experienced) Wed 15-Oct-14 14:06:03
Print Post

Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: Colin_London] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Colin_London:
So it suits my line, but as I say I have known REIN issues, so maybe that is what this new filter is good for.
Indeed. smile That is one of the defects which the Mk 3 SSFP has been designed to minimise the effects thereof.

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User trolleybus
(committed) Thu 16-Oct-14 08:44:58
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Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: GeekOfBroadband] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GeekOfBroadband:
Whats the differeces bettween these two? Would you see improved speed or line stability?


I have previously followed this thread and buried in there somewhere was the statement that the only difference was in "the coil" which had substantial "more turns".

Well had FTTC fitted yesterday and "Kelly" brought with him a MK3 which one would have expected just to be placed over the master socket which he did but not before he changed the master socket stating that it had been found that the screwed A and B terminals were not good enough for FTTC. The new master socket has "punched down connections".

We are a mile from the FTTC cabinet with a predictive speed of 11Mbps. For whatever reason we are currently getting 19Mbps down and 1.5Mbps up. These speeds could well take a nosedive over the next few days but it does seem that the MK3 + new master socket does squeeze out the best possible speeds that can be delivered.

With TTB for FTTC if that's a contributing factor.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 16-Oct-14 08:56:10
Print Post

Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: trolleybus] [link to this post]
 
TTB so the upload is probably capped by them using the 2 Mbps upload product

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Thu 16-Oct-14 09:36:07
Print Post

Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: trolleybus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by trolleybus:
Well had FTTC fitted yesterday and "Kelly" brought with him a MK3 which one would have expected just to be placed over the master socket which he did but not before he changed the master socket stating that it had been found that the screwed A and B terminals were not good enough for FTTC. The new master socket has "punched down connections".


Kellys told you that ... where is the salt?

A good screw down connection will be fine, if not better than a punch down. The problem is getting the installers to do it correctly. A large proportion are not.

They probably changed to punch down to make it easier for the sub-con installers to get it right.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 16-Oct-14 17:28:43
Print Post

Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Kellys told you that ... where is the salt?

Indeed ..... bunch of pillocks.

Standard User MHC
(sensei) Thu 16-Oct-14 17:42:56
Print Post

Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
Kellys told you that ... where is the salt?

Indeed ..... bunch of pillocks.



I was trying to be polite smile


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User Stevesdad
(newbie) Thu 16-Oct-14 18:08:17
Print Post

Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
It's BT that decided the faceplates with screws need changing not Kellys..
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Thu 16-Oct-14 18:38:37
Print Post

Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: Stevesdad] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Stevesdad:
It's BT that decided the faceplates with screws need changing not Kellys..


Has anyone suggested anything different?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User youngsyp
(member) Fri 17-Oct-14 15:59:31
Print Post

Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: GeekOfBroadband] [link to this post]
 
I've just moved from a Mk2 to a Mk3 on my ADSL service and the SNRM is higher and appears to fluctuate less too. After a resync, sync rate is a little higher too. I'll monitor to see if the improvements are sustained...
Off topic but, I have an unlocked Eircom F1000 that I've just configured to run as a modem only so will install that at some stage to look for further improvement.

This is all in preparation for migrating to fibre (everything crossed) in December.

Paul

ISP: Xilo
Service: Talk & Surf 100
Exchange: SMYG
Cabinet: 4
MSAN: Broadcom
Modem/ router: Billion BiPac 7800N
Attenuation:39.5dB
Target SNRM: 3.3dB or 52% of ISP
Current sync: 9755kbps
FTTC cab in place but not enabled..... yet!
Standard User youngsyp
(member) Fri 17-Oct-14 16:00:57
Print Post

Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: youngsyp] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by youngsyp:
And so mixed that you can only rationally take the comments/ experiences on face value.

As I understand it, you'll only really see any difference/ improvement if you're currently suffering from some sort of REIN, as it's just a filter change.

Paul
Blast, this is the post I should have quoted/ replied too.

Paul

ISP: Xilo
Service: Talk & Surf 100
Exchange: SMYG
Cabinet: 4
MSAN: Broadcom
Modem/ router: Billion BiPac 7800N
Attenuation:39.5dB
Target SNRM: 3.3dB or 52% of ISP
Current sync: 9755kbps
FTTC cab in place but not enabled..... yet!
Standard User Provster
(member) Fri 17-Oct-14 16:09:30
Print Post

Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: GeekOfBroadband] [link to this post]
 
I had a recent install 10 days ago but they put in a MK2 rather than an MK3. I guess both are still used?

ZeN Fibre Unlimited 2
80000/20000 sync - 150m from cabinet - Consistently awesome speeds of 8.5mb/sec at any time of day!
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Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 17-Oct-14 21:53:09
Print Post

Re: BT MK2 vs MK3 faceplate


[re: Stevesdad] [link to this post]
 
It's BT that decided the faceplates with screws need changing not Kellys..

Yes, but if anyone pays attention, they don't say that the screw terminal NTE's need to be swapped out unless faulty.

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