Being messed around - Can I get Fibre or not?!

Okay.
I've been messed around with a lot from BT (you can probably find my posts). EE live support tell me that in fact despite what the checker says, I only have to ring up the upgrades department, tell them I want fibre and it will automagically be faster.

But they have then gone on to said that my max fibre speed will be 35.7Mb/s. Why? I get max ADSL2+ speeds already (with overhead) so why can't they give my 76Mb/s, I'm a street away from the exchange fgs!



and in this chat log you'll find them saying I get fibre in my area:

Max: Hi there, my name is Max. Welcome to EE!! No other network is bigger, faster and more reliable.How can I help you with your order today?
Mike: hello
Mike: Everyone on my street has fibre but fibre is not available in my "area"
Max: Hi Mike
Max: Oh I see.
Max: Let me check if EE has Fibre in your area.
Max: Kindly provide me with your complete address, Landline, and post code to check the availability, cost, and speed you will receive in your area
Mike: Also it says my ADSL speed maximum is 9Mb/s when I currently get 21Mb/s

Max: Thanks for the details.
Max: Please give me a moment while I find this information for you
Max: Thanks for waiting.
Max: Mike, we have Fibre broadband in your area.
Max: You will get maximum speed upto 35.6Mb/sec on Fibre broadband.
Mike: Then why does it say that I can't get it when i check it?
Mike: like when i use the thing on every website it says you can't
Mike: Also I should get more than 35.6Mb/s since I'm a street away from the exchange, I already get max ADSL speeds
Max: In this case you will need to arrange Fibre broadband by calling our Upgrades team who can help you on this.
Max: As I've checked from my end it's available in your area.
Mike: do they need an engineer visit?
Max: No there is no engineer visit requires. Once you place the order EE will take care of everything.
Max: Shall I help you with our Upgrades team contact number?
Mike: Sure
Max: Excellent
Mike: So when I order through upgrades, my internet speed just goes up?
Mike: on its own?
Max: You can call on 08448738586 or call on ***** from your mobile they would be in right position to help you on this.
Max: There will be new connection. You will get a new Bright Box 2 router which works on Fibre broadband.
Mike: i currently have one i think
Max: The connection will be through Fibre optic cables and not from the normal cable.
Mike: Is there a way to copy this chat log
Max: Yes once you end this chat conversation you will get an option to save this chat transcript on your email address.
Mike: Alright thank you very much
Max: Excellent

Who do I believe? Shall I go through the hassle of it?

Edited by deleted (Tue 28-Oct-14 21:31:25)

Looking at www.dslchecker.bt.com the phone number checker says you're on an exchange-only line so no FTTC, but the address checker says you're on cab 86 with an estimated speed of 51.6Mbps.

First it might be a good idea to go back and edit your post and delete your full address and phone number.

Using the BT Wholesale checker shows that your line is what is known as an EO line, that is it goes directly to the exchange rather than via a "cab" or PCP. This means that you are unable to get FTTC although this might change if, perhaps using BDUK funding, a cab together with a fibre twin is placed outside the exchange and your line moved to that cab. Until that happens, you're "stuck" with 21Mbps (oh that I should be so lucky, my EO line is over 2Km).

Many of your neighbours do not have EO lines but instead are connected to the Scarborough exchange via cab 86 which is why they can get FTTC but not yourself.

You might want to remove your street address and phone number from that post.

If you're that close to the exchange it may be an EO (Exchange only) line, ie your line goes direct to the exchange, hence no cabinet hence no FTTC.

So the opposite side of my street, which is on the same telephone pole is connected to the cabinet, yet mine is an EO line?

Seems a bit weird to put further away people, on the same tele pole on a different route

How do you work that out?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

How do you work that out?

You told me my line is an EO line.
Oppose me on the same street they have fibre, connected to the same telephone pole as me (I can take pictures of the setup if you really would like)
The exchange is from me: Cross road, go past the opposite houses and walk a street,you're at the exchange. (i.e they're closer)

Where can you check on BDUK plans for EO lines in a location

Edited by deleted (Tue 28-Oct-14 21:50:14)

Not quite. I said your phone number says you have an eo line, but your address says you're connected to cab 86. Possibly a database error.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Not quite. I said your phone number says you have an eo line, but your address says you're connected to cab 86. Possibly a database error.

Hmmm..

This was ever since BT switched our phone number (for no reason, lied about fibre then said we can't get it - possibly due to database error but when I said it could be an error they ignored me, saying they'd probably know better)

On our old number, they said on checkers we could get the max speed of ADSL2+ but not fibre yet.

On our new number, they say on checkers we can only get 9Mb/s.. no Fibre.

How would I go about getting the database checked?

Edited by deleted (Tue 28-Oct-14 21:52:29)

If you go through the order process, the worst that can happen is you end up not able to get FTTC. No harm done, so long as you go into it with that prospect at the front of your mind and don't get too upset if it happens.

You may or may not get everything looking OK right up to the "live date", when an engineer goes to the cabinet to connect you and says "No way".

From what others have said, the EE adviser is wrong, and you will be disappointed.

Is there a possibility your house was originally a "Show House" on a new estate? Or maybe built where the site office was while the rest were built?

How long ago did BT switch your phone number?

In that case it is possible the database is still reflecting the place that number was previously used, and the update failed. It normally takes 2-4 days.

One way out if you are happy to lose the existing number would be to order a new line and FTTC and that stands a good chance of going through. Then cancel the existing line when everything is working. I think BT often install new lines free if ordered with FTTC.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

If you go through the order process, the worst that can happen is you end up not able to get FTTC. No harm done, so long as you go into it with that prospect at the front of your mind and don't get too upset if it happens.

You may or may not get everything looking OK right up to the "live date", when an engineer goes to the cabinet to connect you and says "No way".

From what others have said, the EE adviser is wrong, and you will be disappointed.

Is there a possibility your house was originally a "Show House" on a new estate? Or maybe built where the site office was while the rest were built?

We went through the process, the BT adviser (this was in May) said that we could get Fibre, so did the checker so we went through the process, the BT Engineer skipped the day, we called them and they talked about how it wasn't available, so we said yest it was since we received the OFCOM letter saying we could. They said we would need a new line and that it would take 3 weeks. They switched our numbers at this point

Nothing happened, we called them to ask about it and "BT Infinity is not available in your area, Sir."

I said my cabinet was enabled, but they had none of it so I just cancelled and went with EE.

Is it worth emailing BT or whoever to check the database, since on the same tele pole neighbours get Fibre?

Edited by deleted (Tue 28-Oct-14 22:00:05)

Why were OFCOM involved?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Why were OFCOM involved?

Because they send letters out to houses that can receive Fibre broadband.

These are by default and were probably automated

Edited by deleted (Tue 28-Oct-14 22:13:38)

So it sounds as though they've been through the process I suggested, and it failed. That is very odd.

Sounds like they "installed a new line" by allocating a new number to it, checked the number and computer says no, so they've stopped trying at that point. Oh, and the engineer didn't turn up just like always.

If EE say it's available, why not order from EE?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Sounds like they "installed a new line" by allocating a new number to it, checked the number and computer says no, so they've stopped trying at that point. Oh, and the engineer didn't turn up just like always.

If EE say it's available, why not order from EE?

Because the adviser says we can and the checker says we can't.

I don't want to through the entire process again, a lot of hassle and then they say you can't get it.

Then again - looks like you dont need an engineer visit with EE

Do you pay EE for the phone, or do you pay BT?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Do you pay EE for the phone, or do you pay BT?

EE for phone line rental etc. It's a BTW service or something

Maybe that's why the phone checker is wrong?

In reply to a post by Avazene:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Why were OFCOM involved?

Because they send letters out to houses that can receive Fibre broadband.

These are by default and were probably automated

Since when?

In reply to a post by MHC:

In reply to a post by Avazene:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Why were OFCOM involved?

Because they send letters out to houses that can receive Fibre broadband.

These are by default and were probably automated

Since when?

Since Fibre was rolled out?
I've probably lost it somewhere but we definitely got one

You sure about that? Ofcom is a regulator not a product information site.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

You sure about that? Ofcom is a regulator not a product information site.

I'm pretty sure. I'll find the letter to check tomorrow.
It was either OFCOM or someone else, but it had OFCOM logos all over it

Why would OFCOM send out letters? What benefit would they see? And who would pay?

Provide a link to an image of te letter and we might believe you, however I do not believe that OFCOM ever have done so.

I also highly doubt that it distributed by ofcom but likely to have had ofcom logo somewhere regarding complaints etc .

Anyways. When did you go to EE? and did your phone number change at that time. Also EE lines may be LLU'd which would mean your number would not show up on BT's database.

If the above is correct then, unless you want to go with another supplier, order it thru EE!

Edited by Taras (Wed 29-Oct-14 01:09:24)

this is very strange

A number is routed to a DP then back to an exchange (ether by EO or some areas) ot by that route houdl not change when you order a line

Cabinet location data or speciflc houses covered with fibre are not shared with ISPS all they get they get are postcoded connected to that cabinet - they then use those postcode to market potentia; customers your agent will be working off a postcode list - that has limitiations as it takes no view of distance from cab to premsie and no view of areas that are slplit postcode

Edited by deleted (Wed 29-Oct-14 07:40:56)

it depends where the FTTC cab is, do you know where it is? I assumed they outside the exchange for EO lines but maybe the cab is elsewhere and the line routing is not as good as your direct exchange line route, thats all I can think off. Whilst estimates can be too low it doesnt look promising to think you will get 76 on a 36 estimate.

Ee llu kit is no more and is all run on bt wholesale kit

So explain bt wholesale checker? Available to public and isp?

A "new" number has been assigned - the number isn't new, it's being reused.

Where the number was originally was an EO line. Because the new owner of the number is on EE, the number database hasn't been updated to show the number is now on cab 86.

The address database has the correct information.

The postcode database is just a guide as always.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Ee llu kit is no more and is all run on bt wholesale kit

Ahh i didn't know if it was moved back to btw kit! Could/would that explain the number change for OP .

The actual issue is confused and have no idea why a renumber was originally suggested as a solution.

Numbers are virtual so can be linked to anywhere and if the database is not updated can cause issues.

It sounds like the property is probably the last of an EO batch, to figure out and see if this is an anomaly needs details of the surrounding properties, address and telephone numbers and sitting down with the checkers to figure out what looks the most likely scenario and then presenting findings to Openreach.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

The actual issue is confused and have no idea why a renumber was originally suggested as a solution.

Numbers are virtual so can be linked to anywhere and if the database is not updated can cause issues.

It sounds like the property is probably the last of an EO batch, to figure out and see if this is an anomaly needs details of the surrounding properties, address and telephone numbers and sitting down with the checkers to figure out what looks the most likely scenario and then presenting findings to Openreach.

Quite, the op needs to ask his neighbors to help out on this plus somebody with access to isp btw tools, otherwise data protection issues will arise!

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

The actual issue is confused and have no idea why a renumber was originally suggested as a solution.

Numbers are virtual so can be linked to anywhere and if the database is not updated can cause issues.

It sounds like the property is probably the last of an EO batch, to figure out and see if this is an anomaly needs details of the surrounding properties, address and telephone numbers and sitting down with the checkers to figure out what looks the most likely scenario and then presenting findings to Openreach.

So you want me to ask for the phone numbers of people on my street?
I forgot to take a picture of the tele pole, will def do it tomorrow!
But it really does look like we're all on the same tele pole, and even the flats opposite are routing through the same tele pole. Is the green box on it the cabinet?

It is possible for a property to be on the same pole but for other reasons to be an EO line e.g. in years gone by some lines were done as EO bypassing cabinets for security and reliability issues.

The green box on the pole is NOT the cabinet. The cabinet is far too big and heavy to fit on a pole.

Andrew